So Nether Tempest is going to get nerfed again.

[Deleted]

He just that he keep an eye on it. He didn't say that it will be nerfed right away. It would of have already here if it was found to be too strong.

It's more likely it will wait the little redo for 5.3.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Lets just play with MY MAGES numbers (my haste), my Living Bomb has 5 tics with ~15% chance of proccing and Nether Tempest has 12 tics with ~15% chance of proccing.

First, you're either counting LB's explosion as a tick, which it isn't for the purposes of brain freeze, or you're reading your spells wrong. NT's base ticks is 12. You can't go 5 LB/12 NT. So you're also saying your mage has literally no haste on it. Secondly, LB has a 25% chance per tick to proc, and NT has 9%. I don't know what you're on about with 15%.

Theoretically the magebomb has to tic 6 times to proc Brain Freeze.

Your grasp of probability is lacking, even if your 15% proc rate were correct. If you calculate the probability for each number of proc chances, you're going to end up with roughly the same number for both bombs, barring some freak times where you get more procs than LB can tick.

LB has a chance of not proccing during the duration NT has a chance to proc 2 times during it's duration.

NT can theoretically proc back to back. You're also just as often going to lose procs by having it chain proc during a cast, or even a single global at higher haste levels. It can be a boon, and you can also want to punch your monitor.

It is just easy math to chose which one you should go with on a single-target fight.

Yes, it is. Sadly most people don't do that well with math.

[Deleted]

Yes, it is. Sadly most people don't do that well with math.

I mixed it up with Fingers of Frost proc-change. And I also just woke up before I posted. Sorry for not being perfect.

But for Frost Mages, Nether Tempest is the way to go in PvE.

[Xzan]

Secondly, LB has a 25% chance per tick to proc, and NT has 9%. I don't know what you're on about with 15%. .

Where do you get these proc rates from?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I mixed it up with Fingers of Frost proc-change. And I also just woke up before I posted. Sorry for not being perfect.

But for Frost Mages, Nether Tempest is the way to go in PvE.

Fair enough. Also agreed. NT for frost because of haste stacking. Sorry for jumping down your throat a bit there, having people eat mechanics on H Megaera is a bit annoying and put me in a bad mood.

Where do you get these proc rates from?

GC's theorycrafting thread during beta.

[SodiumChloride]

They probably just don't want us multi-dotting.

At most NT/LB will be limited on one target like Frost Bomb. If there is any dignicant drop off in DPS, they will probably adjust the damage.

[Xzan]

GC's theorycrafting thread during beta.

Oh... Can't rely on test from beta.
So that means I'm gonna waste time testing it on live when I get home.

Goddamit.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Oh... Can't rely on test from beta.
So that means I'm gonna waste time testing it on live when I get home.

Goddamit.

It should be correct. It wasn't a test, it was their code told to us. It was an early thing, and not something that changed. If you'd like to test, go for it. Just know that WoL hates spell refreshes. A cancelaura Brain Freeze macro would be your best shot.

[Polarthief]

so looks like our buff wont last long. maybe they should look at that fact our other bombs are basically useless in pve for most bosses.

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
"Shadow and warlocks were too strong in multidot". Nether Tempest says hello. With the difference mages are also OP on ST.
Keeping an eye on NT. We want mages to have some dot capability, not be a dot class. (Source)

Which is funny because Fire is middle of the pack on most fights, Arcane is near dead last on almost all of them, and Frost is lower-middle to middle.

If anything, they'll revert the buff and buff us somewhere else. If we lose any more DPS, we won't be brought at all (like we were pre-buff)

---------- Post added 2013-04-01 at 07:41 AM ----------

They probably just don't want us multi-dotting.

At most NT/LB will be limited on one target like Frost Bomb. If there is any dignicant drop off in DPS, they will probably adjust the damage.

This would be the most retarded idea if they actually implemented it. That would effectively make LB a pointless talent (which it's close to already), and NT would lose a ton of its flavor. Also, if I don't get to see Arcane Fish anymore, I'd be extremely pissed off.

---------- Post added 2013-04-01 at 07:45 AM ----------

Lets just play with MY MAGES numbers (my haste), my Living Bomb has 5 tics with ~15% chance of proccing and Nether Tempest has 12 tics with ~15% chance of proccing. Theoretically the magebomb has to tic 6 times to proc Brain Freeze. LB has a chance of not proccing during the duration NT has a chance to proc 2 times during it's duration.

Rounded up:
Nether Tempest has 12 tics and has a chance on all the tics to give me a Brain Freeze.
Living Bomb has 5 tics and has a chance on all the tics to give me a Brain Freeze.

They do almost the same dmg single-target. The exception is that Nether Tempest comes with more small dmg tics and Living Bomb with lett large tics so it has a chance to crit bigger and give more dmg.

It is just easy math to chose which one you should go with on a single-target fight.

... What?

LB has a 25% chance to procc BF, and that doesn't include the explosion (so 4 ticks)
NT has a 9% chance to procc BF, not 15.

4 * 25 = 100
12 * 9 = 108
[Yes, I'm aware this isn't how probability works, just roll with it]

While on average, NT will procc more BFs than LB, it's a lot more RNG and unexpected.

Also if your haste level is so low that you're getting 0 additional ticks, no offense, but you shouldn't worry too hard about min-maxing

[Swizzle]

Which is funny because Fire is middle of the pack on most fights, Arcane is near dead last on almost all of them, and Frost is lower-middle to middle.

If anything, they'll revert the buff and buff us somewhere else. If we lose any more DPS, we won't be brought at all (like we were pre-buff)[COLOR="red"]

I'm sorry, but can you provide a source for this? Though I don't raid anymore, I just can't find any empirical evidence to support the claim that we're struggling with DPS, post-buff, this tier.

[SodiumChloride]

This would be the most retarded idea if they actually implemented it. That would effectively make LB a pointless talent (which it's close to already), and NT would lose a ton of its flavor. Also, if I don't get to see Arcane Fish anymore, I'd be extremely pissed off.

How would LB be pointless. It would be the mid ground between NT and frost bomb - it's instant + long DoT duration + AoE detonation. You can't spread it anymore anyway.

NT would still function the same - a DoT that randomly tick on a nearby target - just that you can't DoT everything in sight.

[mrgreenthump]

I'm sorry, but can you provide a source for this? Though I don't raid anymore, I just can't find any empirical evidence to support the claim that we're struggling with DPS, post-buff, this tier.

On single target/cleave fights we aren't strugglingafter we get some gear, but it ain't shining either. On multidot/AoE/target switch fights we are behind by quite a margin(at least as fire).

[Thelxi]

Bombs should go back to their respective specs and Blizzard should lower their heads in shame and come up with actually creative and interesting talents.

[Paq]

Nerf mage CC. Over half of all 2s/3s comps have a Mage on them. And one of the highest 2s teams is double Mages.

nice way to derail the topic in hand lol.

Anyway, with regards to NT I see no major issues with it, however as stated before, GC is "keeping an eye on it" which basically means he is gonna reduce the numbers at some point, assuming he doesn't deviate away from the current "some people are complaining to loudly about mages..... very them to keep the masses happy" routine

[Deleted]

Also if your haste level is so low that you're getting 0 additional ticks, no offense, but you shouldn't worry too hard about min-maxing

I forgot that I had mastery reforges from testing around with different reforges for fire dot-dmg. My haste is obviously higher.

[Deztru]

I have never used NT, I get the same results in PvE with frost bomb due to better cooldown coordination.

NT is too rng on BF, I have actually gone and burned whole icy veins (glyphed) without getting a single BF proc from NT, with frost bomb I can coordinate all my cooldowns and burst a ton more dps with icy veins+AT.

Stop supporting NT, 2nd worst mage spell ever made right after rune of power.

[Swizzle]

Stop supporting NT, 2nd worst mage spell ever made right after rune of power.

Mana Shield says hi.

[Methusula]

Mana Shield says hi.

Rune of Power is leagues worse than Mana Shield. Mana Shield was another absorb for survivability and another junk buff to purge. It certainly wasn't interesting, but it served it's purpose at the time.

[Deleted]

Rune of Power is leagues worse than Mana Shield. Mana Shield was another absorb for survivability and another junk buff to purge. It certainly wasn't interesting, but it served it's purpose at the time.

Oh mana shield...
Pop mana shield > get hit > go OOM. That was so nice.

[Deleted]

I find it surpremely depressing that they feel like they have to "keep an eye on NT". The only buff we got in a while, and it's a disappointing one at that, and they still just *might* nerf it again.

I'm so tired of it. I played Fire on Lei Shen last night and it went well, I didn't have terrible RNG and I messed up because I wasn't used to Fire in that fight but it went better than expected. But I already know that sooner or later Fire will get nerfed *again* because they can't fix the damn scaling. So much fun to play knowing you'll 100% get a nerf in the coming weeks or months.

I will switch classes when the chance arises (main problem, all the classes I'm interested in are already taken in our raid). I hope many other mages also switch. Warlocks got their overhaul because they were underplayed (which I really don't get, they're an interesting class, especially after the revamp). But given how strong Mages supposedly are in PvP I don't think their numbers will drop too much. Although I hope the number of Mages in PvE drops noticeably, maybe then Blizzard will finally realize the class is boring crap with little to no unique utility.