Why Alliance in SoO is bad thing

[Florena]

Everyone knows Arthas is dead. They dont know that Bolvar replaced him.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:18 PM ----------



Thats because for Alliance, it isnt true. The entire Horde has beeen attacking the Alliance, not just Garrosh's forces. Just because they finally got the balls to turn on him doesnt mean their previous actions dont demand justice.

Yeah. I know from an in character standpoint, my character's attitude will be like 'where was your revolution when the people of Gilneas were forced to flee for their lives across the sea, to escape forsaken plagues? When Southshore was turned into an unlivable wasteland? When Garrosh tried to steal the ancient lands of the night elves? When you dropped a mana bomb on Theramore? No, you will not be forgiven now, when you rebel because your own necks are on the line."

[Phood]

So if this SoO ends with Garrosh dead, then what? Some kind of "peace," but not really because they are still fighting in X zone over here and Y zone over there, oh yeah, and up in Northrend too. Ugh. If this "peace"is like what we had before Cata and continues into another xpac, it just seems lazy story telling and an unwillingness to revamp zones that have the Horde and Alliance fighting (we all know the community reactions to revamped old content).

This would never go over well especially for the "Lok'tar ogar! I think I'll get a Horde tattoo!" crowd, but what if there was some sort of actual combined front (against the Legion, or whatever). Not a common xpack city (ala Dalaran or Shatt) but combined faction, raids, guilds, questing, the works! What do you think?

I play Alliance (btw) and I diffinately feel left out of the party. The forums, podcasts and most of the community are heavily Horde-side. Alliance feels like an after thought. I know, i know Arthas...blah blah blah. I just don't get the mind set that Horde are somehow the underdogs, whatever.

[jealouspirate]

Yeah. I know from an in character standpoint, my character's attitude will be like 'where was your revolution when the people of Gilneas were forced to flee for their lives across the sea, to escape forsaken plagues? When Southshore was turned into an unlivable wasteland? When Garrosh tried to steal the ancient lands of the night elves? When you dropped a mana bomb on Theramore? No, you will not be forgiven now, when you rebel because your own necks are on the line."

Yes, exactly.

[GennGreymane]

Why do people assume the rebel group is larger than garrosh's forces

for one he will have some loyal trolls, blood elves, taurens, etc. (the goblins may side with garrosh, he has the coin, and the pandas..... i dont know how they will stand here)

also the darkspeare were never in huge numbers, nor the tauren. the blood elves are a fraction of a fraction. the forsaken may be the largest faction in the rebellion if sylvanas will even care (she really wont)

[apepi]

Yeah. I know from an in character standpoint, my character's attitude will be like 'where was your revolution when the people of Gilneas were forced to flee for their lives across the sea, to escape forsaken plagues? When Southshore was turned into an unlivable wasteland? When Garrosh tried to steal the ancient lands of the night elves? When you dropped a mana bomb on Theramore? No, you will not be forgiven now, when you rebel because your own necks are on the line."

To be honest Theramore has always been a volatile choice of the Alliance to settle there. Too close to a horde settlement, it almost caused a war by itself, if you did not see it coming you are blind.

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

Undercity says hi again.. Same thing. Horde problem; Alliance fixes it

Horde causing problems and Alliance fixing them is pretty much the whole story of Warcraft.

[apepi]

Horde causing problems and Alliance fixing them is pretty much the whole story of Warcraft.

The Allaince themselves kinda caused it as it was a human who brought them to azeroth.

[Florena]

The Allaince themselves kinda caused it as it was a human who brought them to azeroth.

A demon possessed human. =P

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:38 PM ----------

To be honest Theramore has always been a volatile choice of the Alliance to settle there. Too close to a horde settlement, it almost caused a war by itself, if you did not see it coming you are blind.

There was never any real danger until Thrall handed off the warchief mantle to a maniac.

[apepi]

A demon possessed human. =P

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:38 PM ----------



There was never any real danger until Thrall handed off the warchief mantle to a maniac.

A demon did not possess him......

At the being there was some danger, hidden in the depth or the racist or orcs and humans.

[Sandrox]

A demon did not possess him......

At the being there was some danger, hidden in the depth or the racist or orcs and humans.

Last I checked, Medivh was possessed by Sargeras.
Arthas was also hand picked by Ner'zhul to be his champion, long before the Scourge started. He planned it out exactly to push his buttons in just the right way to make him act the way he did. It's not Arthas' fault that he turned into what he did.

[Draymar]

Theramore was founded at around the same time as Orgrimmar, if not before hand (it seemed to be quite well established already by the time it appeared in the RTS bonus campaign with Rexxar). So that seems a pretty moot point. As far as Medivh goes, he was possessed by Sargeras, who was in control of his actions at the time the Dark Portal was opened... But that's a moot point as this isn't really a blame game, it's a discussion about a raid that isn't quite here yet...

OT:

Using Orgrimmar as the location for this was a poor choice, regardless of the intent. It should have been a raid upon a fortress or stronghold that Garrosh created during MoP (Or perhaps just before), so as to avoid the issue for the Alliance of going into the heart of Horde territory and then just peacefully walking away. It would have been a much easier sell -- and would have likely given it a better location for setting up the events that lead up into it for both factions... but that's just my opinion on it.

[Florena]

A demon did not possess him......

At the being there was some danger, hidden in the depth or the racist or orcs and humans.

Medivh was very much being influenced by Sargeras.

And Theramore was founded in a time of peace at the SAME TIME as orgrimmar. It's not like orcs even have seniority over them there.

[apepi]

Medivh was very much being influenced by Sargeras.

Yes but Sargeras is not a demon. Hence he was not possessed by a 'demon', semantics, but still.:}

[Mormolyce]

So what?

Undercity says hi again.. Same thing. Horde problem; Alliance fixes it

No, we fixed it. You obviously didn't play it from the Horde side

[Faroth]

I play Alliance (btw) and I diffinately feel left out of the party. The forums, podcasts and most of the community are heavily Horde-side. Alliance feels like an after thought. I know, i know Arthas...blah blah blah. I just don't get the mind set that Horde are somehow the underdogs, whatever.

Warcraft has been a story about the misunderstood orcs and their trials since Warcraft III. Everything since then has been a plot device or a support for the Horde's story. I fell for the bait and switch expecting MoP was supposed to be the Alliance's expansion to shine, but nearing 5.3 I get the feeling it was another trick.

Maybe a Legion expansion will put the draenei in the spotlight and the Alliance will have its time with Alleria and Turalyon returning, but with Blizzard kind of botching Alliance development (don't get me wrong, MoP is still far better for Alliance than Cata was), I'm not really sure.

And no, despite fans claiming otherwise, the Horde have never been the underdogs. They outnumbered and decimated the Alliance in Warcraft, their infighting is the only reason the underdog Alliance had a comeback in Warcraft 2, and Warcraft 3 was on rather even footing. Going into WoW, the Horde may have been underdogs in Classic, but from BC onward they have most definitely not been the underdogs.

[Stormdash]

I think they can solve the "what does the Alliance get out of all this?" dilemma by maybe using the end result of the Seige of Orgrimmar to give them some new and decisively favorable rewards somewhere else. If they wanted to simultaneously please Alliance fans, and actually successfully employ that whole "foreshadowing" thing from aaaaaaaalll the way back in "Tides of War", you have the Alliance take advantages of all Horde eyes being fixed on Orgrimmar by splitting their forces and making some significant gains in the Eastern Kingdoms -- exactly as Sylvanas dreaded would result from the campaign to conquer all of Kalimdor. Alliance ends up with Stromgarde, or Gilneas, with Kul Tiras as a new and active contributor to the Alliance.

Even as someone who plays mostly Horde, the Horde can't be back to status quo after having had to go through all this. The Horde should really be back to what it was way back, a relatively rag tag operation with an uphill fight just to keep existing, and opposed by a military superpower. The Siege of Orgrimmar actually creates an opportunity to stage that.

[Faroth]

Stormdash,

There's been Alliance support for Sylvanas to push further into Hillsbrad and the Alliance to reclaim Stromgarde resulting in the wall being sort of the border between their forces since Cataclysm, but Blizzard has already said they aren't revamping any more old zones any time soon. So while it would make sense really get the Alliance players pumped, it's never gonna happen...or at least not for a looong time.

[apepi]

They outnumbered and decimated the Alliance in Warcraft.

Actually this is false, the 'Alliance' was just not simply prepared for the Horde, but the Horde was prepared for Alliance. Hell there was not even an Alliance until the Horde came, the Alliance kingdoms were basically arguing with each other before they came. But i do not think they were outnumbered, just simply surprised.

[Kuthe]

Honestly, after The Battle for Undercity, the reason Alliance bailed was due to the Horde and Alliance forces meeting after slaying their own bosses, and having to go back to Northrend.
In Org it is the same boss, both going for Garrosh, so it works weird. But then I'm expecting Stormwind to be under attack by Legion forces 'after (4.5/5.0)' the SoO is complete, thus meaning the Alliance have to immediately bail from Orgrimmar to defend themselves and not attempt to take over Orgrimmar.

[Darmalus]

Yeah. I know from an in character standpoint, my character's attitude will be like 'where was your revolution when the people of Gilneas were forced to flee for their lives across the sea, to escape forsaken plagues? ..."

I don't know. Where was you King's spine when the only thing stopping the Gilneans from pushing the Forsaken all the way back to Brill was a lame kidnapping plot?

Seriously, you kicked the Horde's ass so hard (and I played both sides) in Gilneas, my worgen would have committed regicide if she found out why they retreated in the end. You king treats your people and land like so much fodder for his precious daughter. He's scum, unworthy of his crown.