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  1. #1

    [Books] Just finished the Wheel of Time series...

    I started reading it in January and just finished it today. That's 14 books in about 3 months, which is about a book a week.



    And I must say, after the marathon that it has been, the last book was epicly epic to the epic squared. One chapter in particular was over 300 pages long, and buffeted you with all sorts of events and happenings so fast it's hard to digest it all.



    Usually series, like Wheel of Time, start off really awesome then start to fade *cough*Song of ice and fire*cough*. Wheel of Time was doing that but if you can trudge through books 7-10, the pay off is magnificent.


    As far as the ending goes, it was clear that it was thought out well in advance, and it was completely the bittersweet type ending that leaves enough ambiguity for some speculation....not a happily ever after sort that answers every question ever.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    I've read the series up to and not including AMoL. (I started over when AMoL came out to refresh on what had happened) and it's a great, well written series. The middle books can get slow (and I'm skipping Crossroads of Elayne Picking Out Fucking Dresses this time around) but the first few and the last few books were great. Can't wait to finally get to AMoL.
    Putin khuliyo

  3. #3
    I think I stopped on book 7 or 8. Anyway, it just slogged on way too much. I'm glad there is finally an ending now though, not sure if I'll ever pick it back up however.

  4. #4
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafs43 View Post
    Usually series, like Wheel of Time, start off really awesome then start to fade *cough*Song of ice and fire*cough*. Wheel of Time was doing that but if you can trudge through books 7-10, the pay off is magnificent.
    The Wheel of Time series is widely recognized as having one of the most extremely dull and overly drawn out middle sections of any series of fantasy novels.

    I'm not a G.R.R. Martin fanboy by any means, and I certainly recognize his shortcomings, but it's hypocritical in the extreme to argue that the state of A Song of Ice and Fire has at any point in time approached the sheer unnecessary bloat and uninspired writing of the middle Wheel of Time novels.

    At no point in time during the reading of any fantasy series should someone ever be expected to "trudge through" four consecutive novels in the manner you address in your post. What you have to understand is that, using a series like A Song of Ice and Fire for contrast because you use it in your post, G.R.R. Martin would have had to butcher books 2-5 to achieve the same number of consecutive poorly written and uninspired novels as the Wheel of Time Series does.

    The inherent problem is that the Wheel of Time series was originally intended to only span 6 books. What reduced the series to the state it is in today is the fact that Rigney Jr. decided to write a bunch more mediocre content for his series instead of letting it lie and coming up with a new idea.

    The assertion that the ending of the series was thought out well in advance is also an inherently flawed one, as the author of the final three books, which were originally intended to be one single installment, only stepped in upon Rigney Jr.'s death, and changed the story to suit his own tastes. It was nothing more than an inexpertly cobbled together finale to an already flawed and bloated series.


    TL;DR: Malazan Book of the Fallen
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2013-04-03 at 03:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    The Wheel of Time series is widely recognized as having one of the most extremely dull and overly drawn out middle sections of any series of fantasy novels.

    I'm not a G.R.R. Martin fanboy by any means, and I certainly recognize his shortcomings, but it's hypocritical in the extreme to argue that the state of A Song of Ice and Fire has at any point in time approached the sheer unnecessary bloat and uninspired writing of the middle Wheel of Time novels.

    At no point in time during the reading of any fantasy series should someone ever be expected to "trudge through" four consecutive novels in the manner you address in your post. What you have to understand is that, using a series like A Song of Ice and Fire for contrast because you use it in your post, G.R.R. Martin would have had to butcher books 2-5 to achieve the same number of consecutive poorly written and uninspired novels as the Wheel of Time Series does.


    The middle series bloat ends up being a plus as much of that bloat is shoring up character relations that come to bear fruit at the end of the series.


    Nobody likes the bloat, and it may be a little excessive, but in the end it helps the series, not hurts it.


    If you had read the series piecemeal as books were released, ya the bloat would be frustrating as hell. But with now the whole series out, the bloat helps define characters in retrospect.


    And even in that 4-5 books, several key events happen that are pretty important to the story.
    Last edited by leafs43; 2013-04-03 at 03:31 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    The Wheel of Time series is widely recognized as having one of the most extremely dull and overly drawn out middle sections of any series of fantasy novels.

    I'm not a G.R.R. Martin fanboy by any means, and I certainly recognize his shortcomings, but it's hypocritical in the extreme to argue that the state of A Song of Ice and Fire has at any point in time approached the sheer unnecessary bloat and uninspired writing of the middle Wheel of Time novels.

    At no point in time during the reading of any fantasy series should someone ever be expected to "trudge through" four consecutive novels in the manner you address in your post. What you have to understand is that, using a series like A Song of Ice and Fire for contrast because you use it in your post, G.R.R. Martin would have had to butcher books 2-5 to achieve the same number of consecutive poorly written and uninspired novels as the Wheel of Time Series does.

    The inherent problem is that the Wheel of Time series was originally intended to only span 6 books. What reduced the series to the state it is in today is the fact that Rigney Jr. decided to write a bunch more mediocre content for his series instead of letting it lie and coming up with a new idea.

    The assertion that the ending of the series was thought out well in advance is also an inherently flawed one, as the author of the final three books, which were originally intended to be one single installment, only stepped in upon Rigney Jr.'s death, and changed the story to suit his own tastes. It was nothing more than an inexpertly cobbled together finale to an already flawed and bloated series.


    TL;DR: Malazan Book of the Fallen
    Who the fuck is this Rigney Jr person you're talking about? And while some of the middle books may have dragged on a little, they were necessary to show the fullcharacter development that is the hallmark of the series.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    I've read all of the Forgotten Realms books, including all of the Drizzt books. Those are the best. SIAF are too drawn out and fluffy.
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    I've read all of the Forgotten Realms books, including all of the Drizzt books. Those are the best. SIAF are too drawn out and fluffy.
    You spelled Lord of the Rings wrong.
    But I found both Jordan and Martin's writing to both be equally dull. I'd almost prefer to read a Knaack book.

  9. #9
    Ughhh.... the final book came out a few months ago didn't it?

    I started reading the series... idk. five years ago? And I was really unsure how it would all turn out, when Robert died, But I think Brandon did a great job with the material he was given. Fuck... I better go out and pick up the book...

    Rigney Jr is Robert Jordan's birth name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonwolfe View Post
    In other words, he's worried about how sharp your bayonet is when you are firing RPG's.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    You spelled Lord of the Rings wrong.
    But I found both Jordan and Martin's writing to both be equally dull. I'd almost prefer to read a Knaack book.
    Call me a casual but I never read Lord of the Rings because I saw the movies. I just really enjoy Salvatore's style of writing and his detail.

    Martin is especially boring though. I'll keep watching the show however.
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  11. #11
    Once can not simply start a Wheel of Time thread without people bashing books 7-10. I've just finished reading book 8 and I loved it.

  12. #12
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwards1ca View Post
    Who the fuck is this Rigney Jr person you're talking about? And while some of the middle books may have dragged on a little, they were necessary to show the fullcharacter development that is the hallmark of the series.
    You do, of course, realize that Robert Jordan is only a pen name for James Rigney Jr., correct? Actually, clearly you don't know that.

    I find it funny that you are very clearly upset by my criticism of the series, yet you immediately devolved your argument into unnecessarily coarse language. That does little to any credibility you were seeking to lend your argument, which, by the way, is inherently flawed. Character development is not something that requires multiple bloated and dull books to remunerate upon. Character development should occur naturally and elegantly within the context of an engaging story.

    The Wheel of Time series does not do that, and is therefore flawed. The middle books do not flesh out character development, they wander aimlessly and without real purpose - because the series was only meant to be six books long. It is a formerly successful series that suffered from its author's compulsion to milk it for everything it had rather than leave it be, and it suffered even further upon the death of Rigney Jr., as his replacement drew out the intended ending even further and more unnecessarily.

  13. #13
    Congratulations on muscling through a series of recaps and frequent rambling with the sole intent of stretching the series out far longer than it should have been.
    The series was never intended to be that long, but the publisher pulled contract on the author and demanded "moar bookses!" that had to be in the same series. From my understanding they couldn't even be books in the same world, they had to be the same series.

    Thus one book was split in two, a prequel was tossed in out of nowhere, and one book was largely filler and recap material.

    So yeah, Wheel of Time has a lot of bloat, but it's not the author's intent. Contractual obligations are, in fact, a bitch.

    But still, that's pretty impressive to clear 'em all that fast. I haven't been able to bring myself to read them yet. Working in a book store in the height of a series popularity craze either makes you wanna read it, or rip the pages out with your teeth.... :/

    It's one of those series I still swear I'm going to read one day.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-04-03 at 04:06 AM.

  14. #14
    The final three books were originally supposed to be one. Robert Jordan not only left behind a large amount of notes he also wrote the very ending of the series before his untimely death. While Sanderson was writing using all the notes Jordan left behind he realized that there was too much stuff that had to happen in the series. He did not draw out the intended ending and in fact he wrote the ending as close to Robert Jordan's dream as anyone besides Jordan could.

    Also the last 3 books happen to be some of the best books in the series. Nothing beats book 6 though.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Call me a casual but I never read Lord of the Rings because I saw the movies. I just really enjoy Salvatore's style of writing and his detail.

    Martin is especially boring though. I'll keep watching the show however.
    WHAT!? It's like the Grandfather of modern fantasy! You MUST read them!

  16. #16
    Been thinking about starting to read it for a while now, but I do think there is such a thing as too long...14 books is a lot of story, I can't possibly see how every book could be completely necessary. Lord of the Rings for example could easily be 20 times longer with the amount of stuff Tolkien made up but the three books tell a timeless story, there is plenty of character development, action, and adventure...IMO anything beyond 7 or 8 books is really overkill. And the length and the fact the original author kinda died before he finished are the reasons I haven't started it yet. Either way, I wasn't even aware Wheel of Time was finally completed, I'll have to think about trying it at some point when I'm not with all the stuff I'm currently reading/am about to read.
    Last edited by PBitt; 2013-04-03 at 04:12 AM.

  17. #17
    High Overlord
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    I loved The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Drizzt's stories, the Wheel of Time and A Song of Fire and Ice, and many other series. I never, in any of these stories, thought "wow this is dragging!"

  18. #18
    I enjoyed the Wheel of Time Series, overall. Did drag in the middle bit.

    Since other's keep bringing it up, can't really get into the Drizzt books. Waaay too Mary Sue.

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Call me a casual but I never read Lord of the Rings because I saw the movies. I just really enjoy Salvatore's style of writing and his detail.
    You're a casual!!!

    Seriously though the books are better... books are almost always better really :P
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Montgooms View Post
    The final three books were originally supposed to be one. Robert Jordan not only left behind a large amount of notes he also wrote the very ending of the series before his untimely death. While Sanderson was writing using all the notes Jordan left behind he realized that there was too much stuff that had to happen in the series. He did not draw out the intended ending and in fact he wrote the ending as close to Robert Jordan's dream as anyone besides Jordan could.

    Also the last 3 books happen to be some of the best books in the series. Nothing beats book 6 though.
    The last book in of itself is almost 1500 pages.

    The previous 2 books to that are over 1000 pages.


    So you're saying the last book should have been a 3500+ page book in of itself?

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