The conversation for that started earlier by someone stating that the thunder patch was what wow players are looking forward to in the future and that the game would be in good hands if that is so. I was just asking if you aren't a raider then what do those kinds of patches offer those players?
Might be time to get a new life then!
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 04:41 AM ----------
They do need to step outside their comfort zone, sure. I think they did to some extent in each expansion, the exact right degree of innovation is an art rather than a science of course. In some ways I think they need to shake up the model more next expansion, in others I hope they don't go too far...
But all you're talking about here are graphics... that's not the thing that really matters. Model updates are in the pipeline, and every new zone is more graphically advanced than the last. We're all wearing massive armour over most of that old model anyway, and the armor is more and more detailed. I really don't think the graphics are a major concern. An MMO is not an FPS, if anything it's better to have lower end graphics.
Though I'm not unhappy with WoW's state, I do agree that Blizzard has probably maxed the game out in terms of what it can do at this point. Sure, they add new content and gameplay elements (transmog, reforging and stuff like that), but I feel that in terms of actual gameplay that Blizzard has finally reached the limit on what they can do in this engine. They've updated the graphics a crapload, high res textures and stylish models (I love WoW's graphics, though they obviously can still do some more in this department, they've pretty much shown their hand on what the game is *capable* of doing). They've added flying mounts, vehicular play, revamped the old world, PHASING (which they were tentative with in Wrath, but at this point they've definitely shown off what it can do).
I mean, they've made the game great, they've definitely got WoW figured out in terms of filling nearly every facet of MMORPG game play at this point. But, you can really tell that Blizz's pushing the engine's capabilities with some of the stuff they try to do in terms of game play and presentation. There's pretty much nothing in terms if game physics, and things like pet AI are seriously dated. You can feel the amount of work they've put into squeezing as much as they possibly can out of this game, but the limit had to be somewhere when we're working with technology nearly a decade old.
Edit: So yeah, this is probably just about the limit of what you can expect from this game. That's not to say there isn't plenty of awesome content for them to still release (they've shown that they still know how to make some great raid encounters), just that there aren't going to be many big new developments in what they can actually do with the game.
Last edited by RabidHexley; 2013-04-05 at 04:56 AM.
WoW has always been nothing but numbers, Trassk. Numbers with pictures
Put numbers assigned to objects on your character to do higher numbers to subtract numbers from a different object with numbers assigned to it. Use #SPELL_ANIMATION_5! to do X numbers to other numbers
Collect numbers from farm to sell numbers for more numbers to buy different numbers.
Patch Notes: "We reduced numbers by 5% as numbers were too high"
One day it dawned on me that WoW is really just a big math assignment with pretty pictures, since all I wanted from WoW was the social aspect, I've found that MMO-C provides that, is free, and isn't numbers.
Maybe if WoW provided things that WERENT about numbers, like say, a dance studio, or new race models, it'd keep me interested, but a new raid is just a number, with 9-digit numbers that look like monsters. Numbers pop up on the screen as you click a mouse, everyone only cares about numbers that their character does and nothing more. NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS. Achievement points, number of mounts, percentage of reputation bar filled, arena rating number, profession-skill number. WoW is NOTHING but a game of numbers with 3D graphics.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 05:42 AM ----------
When Blizzard does things like Transmog, I get hope for the game. Storyline and lore is the only reason I still give a damn anymore. I do X number of things so gear number rises to fight monsters with higher numbers than before. Why? Why is everything about Blizzard addition and subtraction homework? Is this really what people expect from the MMORPG genre? Just raise a number to do more numbers to subtract numbers faster? Whats your reward? higher numbers? Who cares if they make it look pretty, my old teachers could of written out my homework on a piece of golden paper with diamond font, and it'd still just be a boring homework assignment.
Heh, WoW nihilism. Sure, we could all be reduced to a bunch of featureless blocks subtracting numbers from one another, but I can still enjoy it, that's just the nature of a game like this and one of the reasons people enjoy it. In terms of just numbers most games can be reduced to them, it's just that the numbers in WoW (and other games of this type) are transparent and an integral part of the player experience.
WoW has always been that way. the only thing that changed from classic wow & bc to lichking & cata was the mindset of the people.
In classic wasnt so important to be in the top tier. people where scattered all over the whole world in classic.
some people had alts in much different levels, other had their green open world gear, other had there blue 5 man gear, some people got pieces of the pvp set, other the full set. some people where raiding mc and bwl and only had t1 and some t2 stuff. other raided the 20 man raids and get this gear while other had their full t3 set. in the end everybody was happy in their tier where they wanted to be.
it changed a little bit as the pvp gear became available for everybody in the end of classic (everybody farmt it for the new expansion).
in bc it already was a little bit different. people wanted to be in the current content with their gear but still they where scaterred in the different tiers. some guild where in kara, some in the naga and bloodelf raid while other raided the black temple or even the sunwell. but everybody tried to keep up his gear with the badges.
now since LK everybody CAN be and WANT to be in the current tier of the game. gear wise and raid/instance wise. and this is the only change i can see in this game.
if you cant find another game try a break from the mmos. and not just for a week ^^. or think about what you actually want from a game and then search for the game that has it.
They do actually add stuff in each expansion which is new.
That being said, I only play this game to raid, take raiding away and I wouldn't play. So for your 'Is this it?' is just fine for me. Raid mechanics are getting much more interesting each tier as well (I skipped Dragonsoul).
What else do you expect from this game?
This game always had a better gameplay feeling if major and known characters are in the current expansion. Or to sum it up, if the lore is good.
BC: Illidan, Kael'thas, Vashj, Kil'jaeden
WotLK: Arthas / Lich King! Malygos was also a cool boss imo, then we had Ulduar with very interesting bosses lorewise (speaking of the Watchers and Yogg).
Cata: Deathwing, but it was far, far away from the "most epic end boss encounter" they promised, he was boring as hell. No good lore feeling here. Besides that, DS is the worst raid ever made for me. And it was the final raid...
MoP: Concept similiar to Classic, you get to know your enemies via lore scrolls ingame or from NPC's and do not know about them in advance or from the past.
Speaking about the Mantid Empress, Sha of Fear and Lei Shen. The Vaults were abandonded a long time ago so it did not need lore in advance imo.
The only thing right now pissing me off in MoP are the coins... You have no other choice for coins except doing freaking dailies. I never get some from pet battles, so...
Why no coins from raid bosses? What's wrong with getting 5 coins per boss, for example? (and 10 coins total if you finish raid finder wing, so you get more out of Normal & Heroic)
They also should have never made the Ulduar reference for Throne, I always compare it to it now...
It just does not compete with it for me in many points. It's still better than the first MoP raids and perhaps all Cata raids.
I hope Blizzard kicks ass with the next Legion expansion. Turalyon, Alleria, Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Burning Legion overall, hopefully more Dreadlords.
We are as God intended. Fallible, yet capable of great things.
I agree, that Blizz can do more to improves ways of spending time in wow. But I am not sure, that they can do that at their current state. Meaning, they could take a lot of stuff from other games (more than they do at the current state, and I am ok, with them taking stuff that works).
I would also like to see housing. But not just the stuff we see in Rift, Age of Conan and LotR (havent seen more housing). They are good. no doubt. But I would like to see them make this housing kind of alive. Give us Questlines, NPCs that can differ, that we can hire. Make it a litte Warcraft 3, let us build and upgrade the buildings. Give us even daylies (in a fair and good amount). Make it alive with families of the guards that we hire, let there be attacks on the peons that collect lumber, ore and stuff. Make us a nice guild hall, some way of showing and remembering the achievements we accomplished as a guild. Let the buildings boost our professions. I would even like to see us beeing able to hire or get companions we could do specific quests with. The possibilities of housing, going beyong just being a building you put stuff in, are promising in my opinion. Even the farm could be taken to that guild house, being farmed by peons. a mine could stand for the ore. And you can work as a guild to upgrade the guild outpost/castle. There oculd even be problems under the npcs you have to solve in a peacuful way. having a hearing, and everybody of the guild who wants to can vote.
They could even go so far and offer pvp related castles, as seen in age of conan, where we can defend them against the other faction. Maybe even the scale of being able to attack a (new and specifically desinged for that pourpose) capital. So when you take all the, lets throw a number, 10 guild pvp houses, you can attack the captital (was it like that in warhammer online?) My point is, there are ways to give us content, without having to go to a raid.
there have been so many good things in other mmo's that would work perfectly in wow. Take guild wars 2. I am not playing it anymore, but the dynamic events are great. the scaling down to the level of the area would be great (also for pvp servers, hello gankers) combine the events with a good story as seen in the revamped old world and you could go where you want and have fun. there could even be pvp stuff to build up in the world that have to be run, where you can be called for help. southern barrens is overrun by the quillboars, mankrik is calling for help and prepares a massive npc / player army to push them back, having the event last for a week, with daylies, szenarios or special orders.
My point is: have new ideas, take good ideas. rework them to fit into wow. And don't just make endgame being raids, pvp and arenas. I think they are testing stuff, but open it up. add 5 man dungeons that are like raids, but not like 25/10 man. new stuff, being able to be done next to raiding.
Scaling is such a strong thing. imagine you could queue for a short, medium or long dungoen, getting more valor the bigger the dungeon is. just wanna run a short ragefire version? you get downscaled to 15 and can do that for a small amount of valor. wanna do something big like shadow labyrinth? It should be reworked, of course, but you can play dungeons as you wish. Every dungeon ever done in wow. imagine that.
Let the pvpers be put on max level after they had a little time to play the charakter, at 10, 15 or level 20.
so yeah, there are ways to make more stuff in wow. the question is, if they will be able or willing to do it. After reworking the old work, most people did not even took that as a feature.
it always been like that, the difference its that in WOTLK you had a really great story, you felt part of the forces to reach Lich King
Cata... nevermind
Mop although has good story, well made but... isn't Arthas
If Blizzard brings another type of Arthas story or even better Sargeras you will have that feeling of WOTLK again
or... if you are Alliance (and many Horde) you will have some of it in patch 5.4 for killing Garrosh lol
Alts are alts not mains. If you want to play your alts like mains that is on you and not a game design issue.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 09:51 PM ----------
Enough with the daily complaints. You got your grindable dungeon rep in 5.2 with the Shado Pan Assault. Not only that but we can also select which faction we want to get rep for daily heroics/scenarios and we have the Tillers work orders not to mention the warbringers that drop items that give you rep. At this point it seems like you people just want to whine because Blizzard has made significant concessions in how gearing works in Mop and yet NONE of you are happy about any of it.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 09:54 PM ----------
If anyone is in a minority here it is the players complaining about having to play the game when playing their alts.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 09:56 PM ----------
I'm sorry but I just can't take you seriously now. You were saying you want new things in Wow to make it more enjoyable. New character models would be nice but it isn't content nor does it change how the game is played. It will still be the same game just with prettier looking characters.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:10 PM ----------
Which faction is essential for progression? AC? Shado Pan? You don't need to own the enchant recipes in order to get the enchants. KlaxxI? You can hit at least honored with Klaxxi before even hitting 90 especially with commendations and the BS patterns are for gear that is lower quality than the current raid teir and again you don't need to own the recipes to get the items. Also let's not forget ALL the new raid/pvp patterns are attached to discovery through daily cooldowns and DO NOT require touching one single daily. What exactly are you missing out on by not doing dailies? Even the new daily rep is basically useless for geared characters as it only has 476 gear and the new raid drops 502-522 gear. Basically just get over it.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:13 PM ----------
Not one single thing about leveling alts has changed at all in any way whatsoever. It is as fast as ever and if anything it has gotten faster. I'm sorry but rep tabards aren't coming back so unless you are going to suggest alternative means of acquiring rep that don't involve locking players away in yet more instances you are pretty much just wasting your time and your breath.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:26 PM ----------
Yeah no. Wow won't be "vanishing" any time soon even with Titan's release. Keep in mind they are going to be significantly different games and those who like Wow may not necessarily like Titan. Also people need to consider the fact games like EQ1 and UO are still going strong nearly 15 years after release and they never hit subscription numbers over 500k. It is going to take many many many years for Wow subscriptions to get down that low if at all.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:29 PM ----------
There is nothing for Blizzard to prove. Blizzard has flat out said time and again that Wow and Titan are for different markets. One won't be replacing the other.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:33 PM ----------
Whelp I guess this means Rift is shutting down. I mean Trion just released a new mmo and we all know we can't have 2 mmos by the same company at the same time.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:37 PM ----------
Changing Wow for the sake of change just doesn't make any sense. If players suggest new systems and things for Wow and Blizzard thinks it fits in they will implement but otherwise Wow is going to continue to be Wow. If players want a new game they should go buy one.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:40 PM ----------
To be fair the reason many people have that attitude towards GW2 is a direct result of certain players from that community coming to Wow forums to pick fights.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:45 PM ----------
Why am I not surprised to see you bring up the April Fools "fiasco"? It wasn't a fiasco it was just that Blizzard had different priorities and ended up not having enough time to do anything. It doesn't affect Wow in the slightest and to complain about it only makes you look foolish. I honest to god don't even understand why you even post here since all you do is trash Wow and Blizzard and anyone who dares to like them.
---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 10:48 PM ----------
Pvp power says hi. Please stop you are only making the pvp community look worse than it already does.
Last edited by xanzul; 2013-04-06 at 02:11 AM.
I enjoyed the older style of gearing, a few tier pieces available through vendor to either get you started or help to improve the raid. It also made your earned currency valuable beyond the 3rd week of raiding. How doesn't a weekly valor cap not buy any current vendor gear ? 3 weeks of valor capping to buy a chest, helm or legs is a long steep time investment
By not making last tier available through vendors for justice points makes alt gearing feel way to grindy and forces alts into older LFR step up ladders, do 1 LFR to unlock another
and so on. LFR gear should drop at a much greater %, this will help with the disgruntled LFR environment, any cata player can tell you how bad you have fouled up the LFR loot system or the lack thereof. 22 people complaining "double gold ffs" .......1hour que and no gear... I hate this game blah blah blah
Rep needed on multiple toons to open vendors is another poor design it all adds up to way too much grinding to get into competitive gear
Increase the weekly valor cap and breath some new life into the game
Last edited by OmegaManHester; 2013-04-06 at 04:33 AM.
If you want something that's totally different from any endgame in MMO history, try Final Fantasy XI. Although its content may not be suited for most people (And it has no PVP), it still has a strong user base (something along the lines of 250,000 active subs). It also has one of the strongest communities out there, and you have to make friends to do well at endgame. There is always a plethora of things to do, and I would find it nearly impossible to run out. The games glory days are over, and it's been simplified into oblivion. The differences between 2006 and 2013 are astounding.
Anyway, I wouldn't recommend FF11 to most people, but it definitely is a breath of fresh air if you want something "different".