Vol'jin on, "Why should we (Alliance) help you?" (5.3 spoilers)

[Trassk]

He trusted us to come to Stormwind and ask for our help dealing with the Zandalari.
What has the Alliance done to show they can't be trusted? Nothing. The Horde attacked us, not the other way around. He has no reason to distrust us other than fear of us enacting justice for what the Horde has done over the past few years.

And the trolls breath is kind of a "thing." One of their racial jokes even mentions it.

Vol'jin's smarter then that, he knows the alliance would jump at the first moment it gets to wipe out the horde, and his people with it, so no he has no reason to trust.

But Vol'jin is also someone who sets proprieties high, just like he did with the zandalari, and like he does now. That doesn't mean he'll ever like you or want to see you are anything more then a convenience.

[Deleted]

So his logic is to pull tough shit and try and pull a power snatch over the full army that he's relying on to keep that tribe alive? Genius plan, Vol'jin Warchief 2014.

Where is that army now? Garrosh tried to assassinate him, implemented Marshal Law on the Echo Isles and now Kor'kron are killing Darkspears. Vol'jin is doing all he can do to save his people from a massacre.

And what is the Alliance player question? "Why should we help you?" Great question to ask someone that his fighting for his people's lives. No wonder why he is sarcastic.

[Lucetia]

And where does he get the stance of his way or the highway?

HIS faction is dying off and getting purged
HIS people are being executed en masse
HIS rebellion needs the Alliance to succeed

The man who needs to clamour to the enemy to help survive is on just about no ground to take the "I'm right and you follow me" path.

Probably because he can do it with or without the Alliance's help. If the Alliance wants to help then he will accept their help, but things are done his way. If they choose not to they are free to do what they want, but they will not be receiving his help in anyway. At which point he has made it clear what will happen if they do.

He's not saying "I'm right and follow me". He's saying this is my plan, if you choose to accept it then follow me if you don't feel free to come up with your own and this will be what happens if you do. He makes it openly clear his intention of what will happen if they do go in alone. He will be more than glad to offer every dead Alliance body to Sylvannas and finish what is left to be done.=

[Trassk]

Hey, Horde player. Spend 3 years playing catch up to the only faction that gets a story and see how you feel.

Of course it effects the Horde more, your 2 head writers are retards who can't go to Starbucks for a morning coffee without screaming FOR THE HORDE when they get their change back. You expect the story to be anything but all about the Horde?

Horde gained more in cataclysm because alliance had more, blizzard themselves said this. And you haven't lost anything that actually has broken your faction apart, the alliance is still exactly the same on a fundemental level as its always been, where as the horde has changed in such a dramatic way its not even recognizable anymore.

And yeah, alliance do want to make this all about them.

[Stelio Kontos]

Hey alliance players, can you just suck in your pride and think on how this battle to come effects both horde and alliance. Infact it effects the horde even more, because in the outcome of events, the horde could be weaker for it and at more risk from the alliance, so this comes down to vol'jin keeping things real.

"Could be weaker" which thanks to Blizzard, the Alliance will never even think to take advantage of the way Blizzard had the Garrosh take advantage of the destruction caused by the cataclysm.

Honestly, at this point, in 5.4, it looks like the Alliance is included because they have to be for access to the raid, we're really just there for Horde fanservice, to help move the Horde storyline forward by serving a Horde faction's interests.

My bet is Thrall or Baine or Vol'jin will kill Garrosh (assuming he even dies), and the Alliance will get to go home with the warm fuzzy feelings of knowing they served the Will of Green Jesus and the Horde as their only repayment for everything Garrosh did to them.

[Millie]

Probably because he can do it with or without the Alliance's help.

Oh god, please let him try. Only a Horde player could be this stupid.

Infracted. Keep it civil please.

[Deleted]

Probably because he can do it with or without the Alliance's help.

It's not even a question of if he can, it's more he needs to, with or without help.

[Faroth]

Vol'jin's smarter then that, he knows the alliance would jump at the first moment it gets to wipe out the horde, and his people with it, so no he has no reason to trust.

But Vol'jin is also someone who sets proprieties high, just like he did with the zandalari, and like he does now. That doesn't mean he'll ever like you or want to see you are anything more then a convenience.

The Alliance that has attended peace talk after peace talk signed a peace treaty and gets betrayed repeatedly? Those guys are going to wipe out the Horde? What lore are you following?

[jealouspirate]

I don't care what Vol'jin thinks of the Alliance, I just don't want to work with him. The whole united might of the Alliance shouldn't be pandering to and taking orders from a small faction of rebels. They should be doing their own thing.

At most, the only contact the Alliance should have with the rebels is "Stay out of our way, and we'll stay out of yours'".

The Alliance should be there in force, Skyfire and all. Alliance players should be taking orders from cool, badass Alliance military commanders, not the Horde.

[Colonel Sandor]

Oh god, please let him try. Only a Horde player could be this stupid.

<snippety snip>

[Faroth]

Horde gained more in cataclysm because alliance had more, blizzard themselves said this. And you haven't lost anything that actually has broken your faction apart, the alliance is still exactly the same on a fundemental level as its always been, where as the horde has changed in such a dramatic way its not even recognizable anymore.

And yeah, alliance do want to make this all about them.

It's not about gaining locations and land. Never has been.

Count the number of Alliance lore figure appearances in Cataclysm. The answer is 1 walk around Stormwind quest. Unless you count worgen starting area.

The Alliance don't want it to be about them, we just want it to make sense instead of revolving the entirety of the story completely around the Horde....AGAIN.

They want one single solitary "bad ass" moment amidst the sea of Loktar Ogars.

[Blayze]

Hey alliance players, can you just suck in your pride and think on how this battle to come effects both horde and alliance. Infact it effects the horde even more, because in the outcome of events, the horde could be weaker for it and at more risk from the alliance, so this comes down to vol'jin keeping things real.

We still don't have a reason to do anything as long as there's Horde lining up to get shot at first.

[Stelio Kontos]

The Alliance should be there in force, Skyfire and all. Alliance players should be taking orders from cool, badass Alliance military commanders, not the Horde.

Nothing like that will ever happen as long as Metzen and his pro-Horde cohorts are in charge of the story. Just gt used to being there as a foil for the Horde to beat up on and as a fanservice for the Horde, both in their civil war and in the Horde-led Army of the Light.

[mvaliz]

That goes COMPLETELY against his attitude he's had in the past.

Seems like they're just building him up to be an Alliance hater to be the new warchief, to be honest.

I think he was rather sarcastically making a point than literally saying that's the optimal alternative that he's totally for. :P

[Rend Blackhand]

Oh god, please let him try. Only a Horde player could be this stupid.

Someone's awful irritable tonight.

The Alliance had the life of Riley through Classic and BC, with towns that were actual towns instead of crap huts of stone, wood and hide. You had castles, footmen that wear actual armour, a greater 'feel' of magic (until the Blood Elves were introduced), and characters to look forward to (Turalyon and Alleria).

[Millie]

where as the horde has changed in such a dramatic way its not even recognizable anymore.

You're right, it went from bloodthirsty Orcs, to an alliance of slaves, a weakened troll faction, and cows that get their asses kicked by Centaur Then it became a power large enough to match the Alliance within 1 game, then it gains another member race of undead freed from control of the Lich King. then it become the faction housing Jesus, then that Jesus becomes the solely savior of the planet due to being the most powerful plot device ever, then it still manages to be a full power capable of matching the Alliance even while it's falling apart at the seams.

You're completely correct. The Alliance have not changed at all, the Horde on the other hand went from zero to hero in the span of 2 games and are continuing up their power elevator without any political destruction hindering it.

[Trassk]

Oh god, please let him try. Only a Horde player could be this stupid.

No more then the alliance thinking themselves so strong it can do it without the horde rebellions aid, or it has the rights to call the shots.

[mvaliz]

Horde gained more in cataclysm because alliance had more, blizzard themselves said this.

Bullspit...

Blizzard didn't say that at all. In fact, Blizzard actually outright said that they couldn't do as much with the Worgen and the alliance storyline as they liked because they ran out of time. (so much for "we release things when they're ready!")

Man Trassk... you're not even trying anymore.

[Hughes]

No more then the alliance thinking themselves so strong it can do it without the horde rebellions aid, or it has the rights to call the shots.

No more than a troll trying to save his people by asking his enemies for help then bossing them around.

Bullspit...

Blizzard didn't say that at all. In fact, Blizzard actually outright said that they couldn't do as much with the Worgen and the alliance storyline as they liked because they ran out of time. (so much for "we release things when they're ready!")

Man Trassk... you're not even trying anymore.

I missed you...

[Deleted]

We still don't have a reason to do anything as long as there's Horde lining up to get shot at first.

Aren't all the events built since the destruction of Theramore more than enough? The leaders of the Alliance always painted Garrosh as the target.