[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[celinamuna]

That is not the main intention of the control/haste gearing strategy whatsoever, it's just a nice side-effect. Control/haste has positive aspects in terms of mitigation of burst scenarios that is appealing in and of itself.

When comparing the haste and the mastery build, i feel like a) mastery would be better in burst dmg scenarios b) we take haste because it provides ~ dmg mitigation but a fair bit more dps.

However the reason why we gem haste is because it's still beneficial for survival. And from what i heard most of the proc meta gems have fairly decent uptimes, so unless tanking one is complete poop (and it shouldn't be, since it's uptime increases with haste, which we got a lot of) it will be really hard to justify losing 20% dmg reduction for a bit of extra dps (granted getting the dps meta, will make it ranking on WoL so much easier).

[Deleted]

So unless tanking one is complete poop (and it shouldn't be, since it's uptime increases with haste, which we got a lot of) it will be really hard to justify losing 20% dmg reduction for a bit of extra dps (granted getting the dps meta, will make it ranking on WoL so much easier).

I just feel like, unless its uptime is above 80%, it just feels to random. I can't balance my tanking playstyle around a proc that may or not not be there. As I mentioned earlier, it feels like a slightly stronger version of dodge and parry, but in a world with active mitigation, how useful is it? I just fear that the tanking meta will fall under the shadow of proc umbrella. When will blizzard understand, that tanks, dont, want, random, procs. We want reliability, passive stats / uses. If the tank meta gave me an additional ability with 20% damage reduction for 10 seconds on 30 second cd, AWESOME, but giving me an unreliable proc, no.

I would much rather take a flat 5% damage reduction than a 20% damage reduction with 70% uptime.

And for me it feels like, obviously as a tank, you can survive everything with our without the meta. So if I can survive without the meta, why not? It feels like a quite big dps to survivability ratio in trade. I would rather trade the meta gem to dps and then go for maybe stamina trinkets instead. That feels like a smarter trade off to me. But then again, I am not saying A or B is better until getting my hands on the meta gem myself, which will be 2-3 months away.

Just saying that I got initial fear that the meta gem will be extremely underwhelming for tanks.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Yeah, people were already clearing Heroic T15 and doing Ra-den without even having the second T15 quest (kill Nalak) completed. I'll probably take the dps meta gem for my retribution helmet, and then when Blizzard realizes nobody is using the tank meta gem and buffs it, I'll get one for my prot set. As it is right now, I'm not that interested.

[Deleted]

Iam going to test the new tank meta today in ToT 10m HC's.
Got it yesterday after the raid was allready over so I was only able to test it on some trash mobs. Some guy over at wowhead say that it has a 1.4 rppm but I think it proccs way more often and frequently and it also has the ability to refresh the buff while it is allready active, so I ended up with a duration of like 25 sec and 20% dmg reduction, I think this is rly huge and as long as we don't have cleared everything on heroic I will stick with it, because I think this will help my raid more than some more dps, because I allready deal way too much dmg as a tank IMHO.

[Deleted]

I think this will help my raid more than some more dps, because I allready deal way too much dmg as a tank IMHO.

Yeah, whenever I feel like I am doing to much damage I just tab down to facebook for a while and forget my rotation for 30 seconds so that the dps can catch and I can get on a more normal damage level.

You can never have enough damage!

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

What percentage uptime did you have?

[Lethora]

I'm still at 15 secrets after 55 normal+heroic kills combined. Few people from guild who have less kills got their quests finished already.
This really sucks.

[Deleted]

Yeah, whenever I feel like I am doing to much damage I just tab down to facebook for a while and forget my rotation for 30 seconds so that the dps can catch and I can get on a more normal damage level.

You forgot italic

[Deleted]

Knew I forgot something

[MerinPally]

You forgot italic

That pretty much killed it. :/

[Deleted]

Knew I forgot something

Pleasure.

That pretty much killed it. :/

wat

[underdogba]

When comparing the haste and the mastery build, i feel like a) mastery would be better in burst dmg scenarios b) we take haste because it provides ~ dmg mitigation but a fair bit more dps.

Your "feelings" are irrelevant, there is a ton of simulation data with varying methodologies.

[celinamuna]

Your "feelings" are irrelevant, there is a ton of simulation data with varying methodologies.

Alright.
(inb4 theck's blog link)
Link me "Tons" of simulation data with varying methdologies for an actual boss fight, not static dps on tank.
Using something called LOGIC (because "feelings" are irrelevant) we can see that on a "Burst" dmg scenario (triple puncture, etc) mastery will be better. Why ? Because if that is our main concern it doesn't matter if we can get 2 SotR between punctures of 4. All it matters is how much the "burst" will hit us for, and mastery will help us the most in those cases.

[itsyaboy]

haste = more uptime on sotr buff. this tier you can reach 50%+ uptime. np

[YataZuljin]

Anyone got logs to someone using tank one.

The thing I get with the tanking one, is kinda the improved version of dodge/parry. You simply can not guarantee its uptime, or control its procs in any way. I can survive without the meta gem, why do I need it? Unless it got like 70-80% uptime, I will probably not use it.

Its good, but not that good as nothing stops it from being down when I actually need it.

Edit: I'll test it on farm and keep using the dps one tonight for progression

I had the same reasoning against not taking the tank one in the first place. I mean by no means is it bad...but it's not something that's going to have saved me in the past, and the extra 10-20k dps from the Dps one is just nice free damage that makes fights easier.

I'm sure the tank one has it's uses on some fights, and they'll likely try and push us to using it eventually anyways.

[Promdates]

haste = more uptime on sotr buff. this tier you can reach 50%+ uptime. np

You were able to reach 50% in the previous tier.

[underdogba]

Alright.
(inb4 theck's blog link)
Link me "Tons" of simulation data with varying methdologies for an actual boss fight, not static dps on tank.
Using something called LOGIC (because "feelings" are irrelevant) we can see that on a "Burst" dmg scenario (triple puncture, etc) mastery will be better. Why ? Because if that is our main concern it doesn't matter if we can get 2 SotR between punctures of 4. All it matters is how much the "burst" will hit us for, and mastery will help us the most in those cases.

I'm not interested in linking anything, you're more than capable of using a search engine.

I'm concerned that you don't really understand what haste actually does as a survival stat if that's what you're arguing. Read your tooltips and think about the ramifications of having more haste and how that relates to what playing in the real world is like, and then maybe we can have a conversation.

I'll give you a hint. You spend HoPo at 5 right as a generator is coming up, so you always have coverage on triple puncture, and the extra SotR uptime still happens and the faster SS ticks still happen and you swing faster with more insight procs, and you go into the triple puncture with more health on average. You know who enjoys it when a tank is a lower-maintenance healing target like that? Healers.

Unless you don't have the health pool to support taking the triple puncture in the first place, the size of your SotR mitigation is not really important in practice compared to simply hitting it, because healers know you're taking a big shot and will be prepared. What kills you is being low health coming into it and healers not being able to react fast enough.

Now is that about "static dps on tank"? This is not exactly rocket science.

[Deleted]

Alright.
(inb4 theck's blog link)
Link me "Tons" of simulation data with varying methdologies for an actual boss fight, not static dps on tank.
Using something called LOGIC (because "feelings" are irrelevant) we can see that on a "Burst" dmg scenario (triple puncture, etc) mastery will be better. Why ? Because if that is our main concern it doesn't matter if we can get 2 SotR between punctures of 4. All it matters is how much the "burst" will hit us for, and mastery will help us the most in those cases.

I like you.

We need more protadins that think for themselves and use logic

[MerinPally]

wat

Say wat gurlfrend.

[celinamuna]

I'm not interested in linking anything, you're more than capable of using a search engine.

I'm concerned that you don't really understand what haste actually does as a survival stat if that's what you're arguing. Read your tooltips and think about the ramifications of having more haste and how that relates to what playing in the real world is like, and then maybe we can have a conversation.

I'll give you a hint. You spend HoPo at 5 right as a generator is coming up, so you always have coverage on triple puncture, and the extra SotR uptime still happens and the faster SS ticks still happen and you swing faster with more insight procs, and you go into the triple puncture with more health on average. You know who enjoys it when a tank is a lower-maintenance healing target like that? Healers.

Unless you don't have the health pool to support taking the triple puncture in the first place, the size of your SotR mitigation is not really important in practice compared to simply hitting it, because healers know you're taking a big shot and will be prepared. What kills you is being low health coming into it and healers not being able to react fast enough.

This has nothing to do with burst. Burst dmg is getting tripple puncture while having 25+ stacks of debuff on you. Burst dmg is getting talon rake with 2+ stacks of debuff on you. Even if you have 200% haste and have 100% uptime on your SotR, even then, 20% will help you more with *burst* dmg. Yes you're going to take more dmg overall, yes the healers will have to heal you harder but at some point unless you get that mastery you just won't survive the "burst" dmg.

While i still prefer haste over mastery (for the same reasons you mentioned such as higher uptime on SotR, more hps, more absorbs, more healing the raid etc), there's basically no argument for what's better for mitigating "burst", the only time it would be true is when you can't get SotR for every single "burst" attack, but it's unlikely, and even if so, as soon as we have enough haste to cover for that we would start building for mastery.

Also, not to say that you're talking out of your ass or anything, but the only simulation I've seen is Theck's blog which doesn't deal with any "boss fights", and even if you are talking about his simulations, there isn't "tons" of simulation data. There's a few scenarios (none of which represent any relevant boss fight btw) which show how certain gear performs in certain situations.