1. #7221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okuu View Post
    >Bloodseeker.
    >Sidelane.
    Well, OD doesn't have to do anything now because he's already won the game. Huskar would probably win poke but banishes would still ruin his CS'ing completely. As for Silencer, well, he's just an asshole to everyone.
    Huskar will easily win on CS by simply forcing OD out of lane.

    As for BS being on side lane... why wouldn't you mid OD? It's the only lane he's particularly effective in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  2. #7222
    How do you counter Gyro? Everytime I see one on a side lane, he gets Flak Cannon and just pushes from the very start, while also easily harrassing everyone in a huge radius with almost no risk. 6-7 minutes in, our lane is totally screwed, he gets all the money and early items he wants, gg. Of course, early ganking is the obvious answer if he's not guarded by Omni, Dazzle and/or a good disabler, but what if he is or if your mid-laner is shit and the other lane is too busy? I'm only talking about pubs with randoms now. I mean, I've tried this stupid strat myself and was quite impressed by its effectiveness.

  3. #7223
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Huskar will easily win on CS by simply forcing OD out of lane.
    Maybe level 1-2 but once OD starts getting his stacks up his damage is going to be insane, it'll also be easy as hell to stack with Huskar's short range.
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    As for BS being on side lane... why wouldn't you mid OD? It's the only lane he's particularly effective in.
    If he's solo mid he's clearly not a farmless support. I also think you underestimate his effectiveness.

  4. #7224
    Most of these people arguing about this topic have gone so FAR off topic that it is comical. Charge Me Doctor had been going on and on about Omni being a carry, and then has a post saying how he's a bad carry because of slow attack animation and that treant is better for it. I honestly have no clue what you are talking about.

    Also, my point about focus firing was that if dazzle is your right clicker as well as having the crucial support spells, then a team will just initiate on him, stun him before he gets off grave, and gg. If your sniper was your right clicker, while they are on dazzle, sniper will be wrecking them. If they go on sniper, dazzle can heal him and grave him. It makes your opponent make a choice on who to prioritize. If you have one hero with the most important spells, and the most important items, it becomes obvious who to kill first, and then your team is dead.

    Anyone is free to play any hero as a carry if they'd like. And you can play any hero as a support if you'd like. Playing sniper as a support.... I don't even know what to say about this. If it makes you happy, go for it. I'm sure it doesn't make your team happy though. And it's not like this is a team game or anything.

    This doesn't mean that new builds or strategies are discouraged, some are just obviously a bad idea. It's like people play a game where an omni gets farm and does great, and think that's automatically a brilliant idea. I'm just shocked out how naive or foolish some people are. (Omni getting farm isnt bad at all, but your team would be better off having him use that farm on things like vlads, mek, etc rather than an mkb or daedalus).

    And Hermanni, your post about picking the right carry for the right strategy is accurate, but has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Sure if you want to push early, you might pick a gyro as your carry, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't pick a veno as my carry for a short, medium, long, extra long, jumbosized, or magnum length game.

    I also don't understand the posts about how Dota heroes were designed 5 years ago and how it translates into what their role is now. Whether or not they were designed with a certain role in mind (I'm sure they were, but I guess everyone is BFF with Icefrog and Eul), they have roles that they are better or worse at. Maybe they were designed that way, or maybe players just figured out how to maximize the heroes potential. Also, not sure why people mention Dota 5 years ago as if that was the beginning of Dota. Even back in RoC dota, certain heroes were support (PD who had a heal, teleport, and chakra) and some were carries (Jug, titan, dk, naix, bf, troll, etc.)
    Last edited by Keyzz; 2013-04-12 at 04:58 PM.

  5. #7225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okuu View Post
    Maybe level 1-2 but once OD starts getting his stacks up his damage is going to be insane, it'll also be easy as hell to stack with Huskar's short range.
    Huskar will win any manfight by a landslide due to Berserker's Blood and spear damage. Spears do an enormous amount of damage and only need to be refreshed once every several seconds.

    Huskar also gets an automatic kill on OD if he hits 6 before OD has Force Staff or a similar item - force the imprison, jump on OD, hit hit hit dead. OD's ulti won't do enough damage at 6 to compensate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  6. #7226
    Nature's Prophet best hero in the game hands down yea!

  7. #7227
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Huskar will win any manfight by a landslide due to Berserker's Blood and spear damage. Spears do an enormous amount of damage and only need to be refreshed once every several seconds.

    Huskar also gets an automatic kill on OD if he hits 6 before OD has Force Staff or a similar item - force the imprison, jump on OD, hit hit hit dead. OD's ulti won't do enough damage at 6 to compensate.
    I'm pretty sure you're dead as Huskar if you jump an OD at level 6 and he has 2 or 3 Astrals on you already.

  8. #7228
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I'm pretty sure you're dead as Huskar if you jump an OD at level 6 and he has 2 or 3 Astrals on you already.
    Exactly 3 stacks on Huskar at level 6 would do 520 damage. Mitigated by resistance but still, it does let OD basically skip the entire part of killing Huskar that's actually hard, the end.

    (This is if they're naked btw.)
    Last edited by mmoc24ed1da916; 2013-04-12 at 07:30 PM.

  9. #7229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I'm pretty sure you're dead as Huskar if you jump an OD at level 6 and he has 2 or 3 Astrals on you already.
    I wouldn't be so sure, Huskar has higher IAS + he has spears on low levels, not to mention it is not easy to maintain 3 stacks of astral without having your ass burned by spears.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2013-04-12 at 07:35 PM.

  10. #7230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure, Huskar has higher IAS + he has spears on low levels, not to mention it is not easy to maintain 3 stacks of astral without having your ass burned by spears.
    I'm quite sure Astral has longer range than Huskar. And remember, Huskar doesn't dare to jump on OD unless he has his Astral on cooldown.

  11. #7231
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I'm quite sure Astral has longer range than Huskar. And remember, Huskar doesn't dare to jump on OD unless he has his Astral on cooldown.
    afair, orb-walking with spears provides a longer reach compared to simply autoattacking Huskar, so probably maybe there is a decent chance of Huskar not losing and even winning the game of "who-harasses-better".
    But I might be mistaken, so just a theory)

  12. #7232
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermanni View Post
    Why do you keep repeating this? I already pointed out that many heroes have been virtually unchanged since before people started tried coming up with definitions like pusher-initiator-tanky-semicarry to pigeonhole them. If you have some insight on how the heroes are designed I'd be happy if you shared it with the rest of us, unless you're actually Icefrog in which case I could excuse you from identifying your means of knowledge acquisition.
    You only need a half brain to understand idea behind a hero and You don't need to complete your PhD on game design before discussing hero design decisions. Some heroes are same since they were introduced but the effectiveness(and role) of heroes have been altered by

    1) newly introduced heroes
    2) newly introduced/redesigned items
    3) new strategies

    Isolating hero from DotA environment while considering it's design aim is stupid. If IceFrog just randomly adds heroes(be it designed by community or his own designed) and their skills, then, he has no idea about game design which is not the case. Each hero fulfills a certain role and it's role is determined in design phase. Players may change its playstyle to fit their needs. There are exceptions that the role of some heroes are vague by their design but most heroes are not. Roles in DotA exist, heroes are designed/altered around a role. Saying each hero can carry, some do better is gross generalization and is a useless statement.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2013-04-12 at 10:44 PM.

  13. #7233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    I'm quite sure Astral has longer range than Huskar. And remember, Huskar doesn't dare to jump on OD unless he has his Astral on cooldown.
    Huskar should hit 6 before OD does, since Huskar should be able to win the CS war via Berserker's Blood and better attack speed, especially if OD tries to harass him with autos. Spear cast range is 450, same as OD's attack range, so OD can't really attack Huskar without getting hit in return, and Huskar can just orbwalk to avoid creep aggro while OD has to worry about creeps. Both are fairly squishy, actually, though Huskar is likely to be buying strength while OD isn't.

    The major thing is that Burning Spears does an enormous amount of damage over time if stacked up. Even at only level 3 (Huskar lvl 5), spears does 5*12 damage per second if you keep it stacked, on top of the actual hit damage from the attack. Basically, Huskar should be able to simply harass OD away from the creeps with orbwalking, hit 6 first, get a free kill on OD (after forcing imprisonment somewhere), and now he's won his lane.

    I kind of want to watch a Fistful of Tangos of this matchup now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  14. #7234
    Although I can't ever recall seeing a Huskar leveling spears to level 3 at level 5, it's a fair point. This is all I wanted to see in your posts, PizzaSHARK. Not just listing abilities. Took you what, a hundred pages? I'm glad to see some actual argumentation for once, keep it up.

    NTH's sponsor being EG shouldn't come to a surprise to anyone who's not living in 2012, but why'd they have to pick The Alliance? What a shitty-ass name.

  15. #7235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    Although I can't ever recall seeing a Huskar leveling spears to level 3 at level 5, it's a fair point. This is all I wanted to see in your posts, PizzaSHARK. Not just listing abilities. Took you what, a hundred pages? I'm glad to see some actual argumentation for once, keep it up.
    Except I am still just "listing abilities." I just told you that level 3 spears does 12 damage per second per stack. I don't think it requires a genius to apply this to "this effect will be on the enemy who you happen to be attacking, and this will result in them dying," but I filled in that blank for you, too.

    And leveling spears is generally the best thing to do unless you actually expect to be able to autoattack people to death. Inner Vitality's heal is garbage at low levels since it's based on stats, and spears do ridiculous amounts of damage. People that rush Helm of the Dominator on Huskar are dumb. Armlet, BKB, and probably a Hood/Pipe in there at some point since Huskar's biggest problem is burst damage from spells.

    If you have spears maxed at level 7, you're doing 16 DPS per spear for 7 seconds - 80 DPS at five stacks, for 7 seconds... 560 damage before reduction. Even after reduction, it's still over 400 damage, considerably more damage than a level 1 Lina ulti. Seriously, spears are ridiculously good, maybe even kind of overpowered. People that ignore them in favor of early lifesteal are being stupid.

    EDIT: Comparison for spears. Let's assume level 7 huskar running in for a gank. If he's going the "lol, spears suck" build, he'll either have 1 or 2 points in the heal (depends on if he took spears for orbwalking at all.) Otherwise, level 4 spears. Other points are in BB.

    Huskar will probably have ~43 strength; urn is a common item for him, so +6 strength. Figure a couple of branches, another +2. Not expecting treads, but add another +8 if he does. Inner Vitality at level 2 is 4 HP/sec regen, plus 10% of primary attribute - so we're looking at about 8 HP/sec or so total. If they're below 40% HP, bump it up to 30% of attribute, or about 16 HP/sec total until they hit 41% HP.

    That's not bad. But 8 HP/sec isn't very impressive (naked RoH is already 5 HP/sec), and 16 HP/sec regen requires you to be in "enjoy the free kill" range for anyone with a disable, and drops back to 8/sec immediately after. If you took a point in spears, it'll be healing even less. You'll also only have enough mana for maybe two casts before you're totally out of mana.

    Now, you'd be maxing BB first, which means you'll be able to hit very hard and very fast... when you're low enough on HP to get killed inside a single stun.

    Spears build averts ALL of this, because you don't even NEED to use your ulti (which puts you at risk for getting blown the fuck up in a counter-gank) to easily secure a kill. Have the lane you're ganking stun or slow the target and just walk on up and throw spears at them. Five stacks of that shit and they're going to take more damage than a Lina ulti by time it's over, on top of your autoattack damage and any damage teammates contributed.

    The damage is lethal, and it doesn't allow the enemy to deny them, so you can easily just wander off once they're at 20% and get the free gold by time you're back to middle (or wherever.)

    I dunno if Huskar would still be "good" in comp play with the (non-shitty) spears-focused build, but probably stronger than he is in current playstyles. The no spears/lifesteal rush build is really, really easy to pick off because its ganking is based purely on jumping in with ulti and manfighting, while the spears build can literally burn people down with the dot and orbwalking without having to fully commit.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2013-04-13 at 08:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  16. #7236
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Except I am still just "listing abilities."
    That you are. You are also providing reasoning and actual logic and twin them together into a single post. I feel kind of dumb even typing this out as I don't have anything to actually contribute with. I've never played Huskar (the games on my dotabuff were played by some friend of mine), and he's virtually never in any of my games. I'm literally clueless when it comes to that hero.

    You and Zefie should 1v1 and post results btw

  17. #7237
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Huskar should hit 6 before OD does, since Huskar should be able to win the CS war via Berserker's Blood and better attack speed,
    Considering OD can pretty much tell Huskar to go screw himself for several seconds while killing creeps, I don't see how he would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    You and Zefie should 1v1 and post results btw
    im bad tho

  18. #7238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    That you are. You are also providing reasoning and actual logic and twin them together into a single post. I feel kind of dumb even typing this out as I don't have anything to actually contribute with. I've never played Huskar (the games on my dotabuff were played by some friend of mine), and he's virtually never in any of my games. I'm literally clueless when it comes to that hero.

    You and Zefie should 1v1 and post results btw
    Isn't he EU? One of us would be at a ping disadvantage

    And Huskar's mostly a pubstomper. I think he has some potential at high level play, but he's mostly a ganker there and why would you pick anyone but Nyx (or Night Stalker if you don't want to faceroll a win) if you wanted a ganker?

    He's probably the most fun hero to stomp bad players with since they'll use all their spells when you're at full health and then you can start chunking them with 200 damage .35 sec autoswings at level 7.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 04:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Okuu View Post
    Considering OD can pretty much tell Huskar to go screw himself for several seconds while killing creeps, I don't see how he would.
    AFAIK, OD usually maxes aura first before imprison, so Huskar's only out of the fight for 2 sec or so (unless OD delays first point in orb til 9 and doesn't take ulti before 10.) He'll miss a kill, or maybe two, but that's about it. Huskar would mostly win through orbwalking OD away from the creep wave, though. If you were wanting to lane OD vs Huskar, you'd probably need a lot of tangos and rush ring of health/ring of regen very quickly.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  19. #7239
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    AFAIK, OD usually maxes aura first before imprison
    Depends on how much you're gonna bother with orb. If we're talking fistful of tangoes I wouldn't even skill orb until Astral's maxed because Huskar's gonna win a straightup fight anyway.

  20. #7240
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Isn't he EU? One of us would be at a ping disadvantage

    And Huskar's mostly a pubstomper. I think he has some potential at high level play, but he's mostly a ganker there and why would you pick anyone but Nyx (or Night Stalker if you don't want to faceroll a win) if you wanted a ganker?

    He's probably the most fun hero to stomp bad players with since they'll use all their spells when you're at full health and then you can start chunking them with 200 damage .35 sec autoswings at level 7.
    Honestly, while Huskar can manhandle most 1v1 lanes pretty easily and is great ganker, he absolutely needs bkb to survive any kind of slightly burst/CC oriented setup and also needs to snowball, otherwise he has very little to offer in actual teamfights.

    I dont see him as pro pick any time soon, as he is squishy unless he snowballs and even then, what heroes are popular nowadays? Bane, Bagnus, Beastmaster, Gyro, Bat etc. One thing in common? Their CCs go through bkb. IMO, huskar absolutely needs to be on the innitiation side, otherwise he is very weak and considering curent trend with plethora of long range/blink innitation heroes and trends with items (Orchid is very popular nowadays, hex to some degree too), I dont see any place for pros to pick him now other than suprise 5th pick with very special circumstances, somewhat like the NTH BS pick.

    I like the hero, I really do, one of the most fun heroes to stomp with, but in pro scene? There is plethora of "safer" (even if potentially weaker on the offensive side) gankers, that also provide other stuff to your lineup if thats what you are looking for in Huskar.

    Also about the OD, I think OD as a counter to huskar has maybe more to do with the legacy "bug"/mechanic from dota1, when you didnt get exp when you were imprisoned, thus you hit 6 way later, which was changed long time ago for dota2.

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