Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Revvo]

so I crunched the numbers a bit and for me the sword of light buff is usually a ~10% increase in overall damage, slightly higher with lots of AOE going closer to 11%.

I'm excited for AoE with this new buff TBH.

[idpsutank]

Hunting why are you always so goddamn negative. Ret was good but it needed all the tools Trinket , 4set, Weapon. Of those i have none because NOTHING HAS EVER DROPPED . Now with 15% SoL buff. All I gotta say is when you get the ideal items 541 wpn, Trinkets, 535 BIS, meta. Ret was gonna be hilarious. And yeah mastery just took a huge jump pretty sure this final notch on weapon scaling pushes mastery nearly above strength but well see. Prolly is above it now with broken shit like Ji-kun anyhow.

I feel the pain on nothing dropping, although we don't dont have as many heroics down as you, we haven't seen much strength shit drop either Our first 2h heroic bo-ris that dropped was auto looted to the blood dk tank with out question which royally pissed me and the other two strength melee users off and on top of that the 2nd ret in our group passed on 4pc to a healer 2pc which was like dafuq....Haven't even seen 1 Horridon trinket yet :|

[Afarensis]

It's hilarious that I see people saying the 4-set is terrible. If you go back a few pages you should see me running some numbers with extreme numbers of strength, and you should be able to see the difference between a 4P TV and a non-set TV. The 4-set is so incredibly overpowered compared to anything other classes get it's not even funny, and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't been nerfed yet.

[Reghame]

It's hilarious that I see people saying the 4-set is terrible. If you go back a few pages you should see me running some numbers with extreme numbers of strength, and you should be able to see the difference between a 4P TV and a non-set TV. The 4-set is so incredibly overpowered compared to anything other classes get it's not even funny, and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't been nerfed yet.

its because its not a 100% proc chance afarensis, you can see such a dramatic dps increase one fight with it or just seem like shit in another fight. imagine you had all your CDs up and with 25% crit chance (due to inq) you dont land a single crit on your TVs or even get that 4 piece to proc. Now how useful is that 4 set now when it doesn't contribute to where almost all your dps comes from?

Also, i don't think this SoL buff will push us anywhere past where we currently are. were pretty dog shit as far as long single target fights or prolonged AOE dps fights go. we excel in huge burn phases and short fights, which seems to have all but disappeared this expansion so far with only a few fights being like that at all.

What i would like to see is avenging wrath nerfed by 5% or so, and make Hammer of wrath not usable during wings. This could then assort some true buffs into the ret spec without making PVP rets a 1 hitter quitter like they have been since they put in this shitty ass holy power system in. you could possibly see HoW get a buff to make it usable at 35% and always crit and scale with crit like chaos bolt and make it a true execute where it does more then 2% of someone's health in PVP when wings is NOT up and allow some benefit from crit scaling as well.

(just my take, my word is not that of the ret paladin gods.)

---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 06:43 AM ----------

also, i like it when blizzard always seems to screw something up with us even if were at the bottom >.> (referring to the 2 set delay AND AA reset bug that has been happening for some time.)

[Deleted]

It's hilarious that I see people saying the 4-set is terrible. If you go back a few pages you should see me running some numbers with extreme numbers of strength, and you should be able to see the difference between a 4P TV and a non-set TV. The 4-set is so incredibly overpowered compared to anything other classes get it's not even funny, and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't been nerfed yet.

Even with our good 4 set , rets will get outdpsed on the majority of fights by pretty much all other classes (except a gimmky fight ala jinrokh)

[Exertim]

Hunting why are you always so goddamn negative. Ret was good but it needed all the tools Trinket , 4set, Weapon. Of those i have none because NOTHING HAS EVER DROPPED .

Welcome to my life. Another week, another 3 gold. At least I have 4 set at the very least, but it's not very fair to be matched against DKs/Rogues with Heroic/Heroic Thunderforged weapons vs my 522 weapon, lol.

[Dmchomerun]

I feel the pain on nothing dropping, although we don't dont have as many heroics down as you, we haven't seen much strength shit drop either Our first 2h heroic bo-ris that dropped was auto looted to the blood dk tank with out question which royally pissed me and the other two strength melee users off and on top of that the 2nd ret in our group passed on 4pc to a healer 2pc which was like dafuq....Haven't even seen 1 Horridon trinket yet :|

It's frustrating, sure, but that spear is by far the best weapon for DK tanks.

[Deleted]

+ Why would you gear a ret Paladin they are pretty crap right now. (Hello from Methods Ret )

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

+ Why would you gear a ret Paladin they are pretty crap right now. (Hello from Methods Ret )

Feel for you, untill my guild actually ran into low raid dps I rolled around with thunderforged (528) Uroe and valor 522 pieces. I got 3 tier pieces in a week and spark + feather. Before that me and the other ret passed tiers to dps priest and locks simply because it's a bigger boost for them (and consistant). Again, not saying that 4set is bad WHEN it procs... it's bad when it doesn't and that's bad because of the same reasons why crit is bad for ret... well why I personally stay the fuck away from it as much as possible.

---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 11:28 PM ----------

+ Why would you gear a ret Paladin they are pretty crap right now. (Hello from Methods Ret )

how did you do on Magaera btw? I'm constantly getting into top 5 with 180k dps + (we wiped at 40% last head, someone panicked with ice beam and ran the wrong way...) I'm almost considering taking holy avenger just for that final cleave fest, not to cheese but to take them out insanely fast.

[Deleted]

I played a whole of 0 bosses in progress and since then I pretty much beg steal or blackmail my way into a spot on any boss I can and Megaera is not one of them (0 loot). The sad story is that I only just got my 4p last week due to bonus roll on normal mode (lol) since we have been giving loot to people who would be playing Ra-den.

Since Ra-den is down now I hope my ret will see some action and with the buff coming maybe even some love in terms of progress. Still even with the buff he is still only slightly above Warriors and Rogues in terms of single targets dps and gets destroyed when it comes to 2-3 targets. That is btw. the biggest problem of the ret right now, he just has no niche where he outperforms everyone else and his support is pretty much equal to that of the other melees.

Edit: The only thing maybe being burst damage when it comes to a fight where you get a short damage increasing buff or need a ton of damage in a short period of time. Example: Spine of Deathwing

[Neldarie]

Too bad that we aren't even kings of that fabled "ret-burst" we used to be anymore either. As I said months back that ret will be in dire straits this tier and will be buffed (eventually) when content is cleared or you are so far behind in gear it's irrelevant. Mages get hotfixed, rets and other "inferiors" have to wait for months.

And yes if looking at the whole situation from tip-top endgame pov raiding: ret was never the thing to play (outside of whoring all gear in ICC maybe (taj-2set-shadowmourne). Thats comming from ret who raided through sunwell till dragonsoul as real top-end.

[Afarensis]

its because its not a 100% proc chance afarensis, you can see such a dramatic dps increase one fight with it or just seem like shit in another fight. imagine you had all your CDs up and with 25% crit chance (due to inq) you dont land a single crit on your TVs or even get that 4 piece to proc. Now how useful is that 4 set now when it doesn't contribute to where almost all your dps comes from?

What, with a 40% proc chance? Not very likely. You could say the same thing about crit value, and the chance for a crit is even less than 40%. Sure, it's possible to not see a proc for ages, but on average it's a massive DPS improvement. You might as well say that Art of War is a weak ability because there's a chance it'll never reset the CD on Exorcism.

[Reith]

What, with a 40% proc chance? Not very likely. You could say the same thing about crit value, and the chance for a crit is even less than 40%. Sure, it's possible to not see a proc for ages, but on average it's a massive DPS improvement. You might as well say that Art of War is a weak ability because there's a chance it'll never reset the CD on Exorcism.

Exactly, and you'll often get 2 chances to get the Holy TV proc anyway. It's actually not that much of a swing and I think it's a good set bonus, but I'll be testing that this week after the reset to make sure. Rotation shouldn't change at all without cooldowns EXCEPT for 2 and maybe 3 targets (maybe 4 for the same reason as 3). Never use HOTR on 2 targets unless you got a Holy TV proc already and you're not at 5HP, and never use DS over Holy TV on 2 targets. Use DS on 2 targets only if you don't get a proc. DS still barely wins out on 3 targets, but if there's a high priority target, then Holy TV is more worth it anyway because the gain from Holy TV to DS on 3 targets isn't much, and from 3 to 4 is an okay gain but depending on how important that priority target is, Holy TV could win out on that factor alone over pure DPS.

[Deleted]

Any tips for durumu hc? How should i deal with icewalls?

We dont have many locks/eles but our dps on walls in enough so should I just tunnel boss and single first wall?

[Megraam]

Now we are on Primordius hc without skipping and still no heroic drop for me except a shitty hit cloak from Horridon. Not that my orders+valor trinket+sha axe make me worried about hit overcap haha.
It sucks when you think about asking your RL for benching since you don't want to stall the raid progress.

[Reghame]

What, with a 40% proc chance? Not very likely. You could say the same thing about crit value, and the chance for a crit is even less than 40%. Sure, it's possible to not see a proc for ages, but on average it's a massive DPS improvement. You might as well say that Art of War is a weak ability because there's a chance it'll never reset the CD on Exorcism.

i don't disagree that its not a bad tier set or anything when it does proc, i'm saying that because its not 100% proc chance, because of how Sanc wrath CD rotation is, if you don't get those procs, you wont see ANY dps increase at all with the tier set bonus, and despite BEING 40% it happens quite often, (i have had 4 piece since week 2, not getting procs when you want them happens a lot.) This reminds me of DS, where you could be a god with 4 tentacle spawns and spamming TVs with dp procs and get damn good dps during your CD phase, or get no procs from either sources for a majority of the fight and none during burst. The difference now is that without those procs, we are last in dps every time.

shit, i got out dpsed by our assassination rogue the other day on a fight just by him afk auto attacking for 2 minutes and coming back, getting a Brez and getting a second hero. our dps is so bad right now that without uber procs were complete shit, and a 15% increase on the SoL buff wont change that. As usual. we need another overhaul, cause apparently blizz keeps wanting to go to the do unworkable burst like a god then go afk the rest of the fight till CDs are up. Lets face it, as long as they keep trying to balance PVP, our model of damage will never be ok unless it turns OP for the pvpers, and has proven to work like this for 8 some years.

Rant over time to go play in ToT and get shit on by my fellow raiders who laugh at me for even being ret >.>

[Calimon-ZJ]

i don't disagree that its not a bad tier set or anything when it does proc, i'm saying that because its not 100% proc chance, because of how Sanc wrath CD rotation is, if you don't get those procs, you wont see ANY dps increase at all with the tier set bonus, and despite BEING 40% it happens quite often, (i have had 4 piece since week 2, not getting procs when you want them happens a lot.) This reminds me of DS, where you could be a god with 4 tentacle spawns and spamming TVs with dp procs and get damn good dps during your CD phase, or get no procs from either sources for a majority of the fight and none during burst. The difference now is that without those procs, we are last in dps every time.

shit, i got out dpsed by our assassination rogue the other day on a fight just by him afk auto attacking for 2 minutes and coming back, getting a Brez and getting a second hero. our dps is so bad right now that without uber procs were complete shit, and a 15% increase on the SoL buff wont change that. As usual. we need another overhaul, cause apparently blizz keeps wanting to go to the do unworkable burst like a god then go afk the rest of the fight till CDs are up. Lets face it, as long as they keep trying to balance PVP, our model of damage will never be ok unless it turns OP for the pvpers, and has proven to work like this for 8 some years.

Rant over time to go play in ToT and get shit on by my fellow raiders who laugh at me for even being ret >.>

If you're getting beat by someone who's been dead for 2 minutes, sorry that's not a problem of the spec. That's a problem with you being bad.
Ret does need an increase and this is likely to be more than sufficient.

[Reith]

If you're getting beat by someone who's been dead for 2 minutes, sorry that's not a problem of the spec. That's a problem with you being bad.
Ret does need an increase and this is likely to be more than sufficient.

Depends where you want Ret to be. I'd like to be upper-middle, not middle-middle.

[Afarensis]

Depends where you want Ret to be. I'd like to be upper-middle, not middle-middle.

Let's be honest here though Reith, if Reghame is being outDPSed by an assassination rogue that's been dead for two minutes he's just not playing Ret correctly.

All I see in this thread is people QQing and pretending we're doing 20% less DPS than other specs while it's not even close to being that dramatic. I feel like there's a lot of players in here that are doing their rotation incorrectly, jumping on the forums and seeing that other people are complaining about Ret, and then deciding that it really isn't their fault at all, it's ret being bad.
Most of these players would benefit a lot more from getting some gear upgrades and sitting on a target dummy for a while than typing long-winded posts about how "ret is so bad there's no point even bringing them".

[Neldarie]

"20% less DPS" In most cases that's being the good case scenario. Let's be honest, when you actually compare you should use same "peers" to compare with. It's not worth comparing gold to copper. Other thing is that one can/may write a whole book about how to compare things properly (yes reading and >interpreting< logs). There is also no point in comparing to the average/bottom pile because lets face it when it really matters those don't make it in anyways. Melee you should compare your spec to are basically just rogues and unholy dks this tier (dps warrior/frost dk way too situational and mostly unwanted, but even those stomp ret atm even just at utility they bring ("immortality" yes purgatory is a big thing in this tier of 1-2shotted)).