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  1. #1341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Wrong.

    It's like saying if I spent a long time training I could win a marathon. It's not going to happen.

    Exceptional players have good awareness, multitasking and other inherent skills that makes them what they are. Kind of like Usain Bolt having certain natural attributes to make him good at what he does. Just because exceptional wow players attributes aren't physical ones, doesn't mean they don't have them.
    It's not wrong, but we'll have to agree to disagree because I obviously don't share your opinion. Exceptional WoW players (those in the top raiding guilds) are not exceptional/successful because of some sort of natural ability that raises them above the majority of players. They're successful because of the time/effort they dedicate (along with sharing the same goals as the rest of their guild) and pushing themselves to the limit where the rest of us would simply flake out and go out for a beer. You need a certain level of dedication to the game to move past the "check noxxic for rotation/talents/gems/reforge, jump into lfr and half concentrate on a boss while watching Deadlist Catch" style of player to the "sim everything, change reforges/talents/gems per boss, research every encounter and ability, spend every waking hour on the PTR, spend 12 hours wiping on a boss during progression" type of player.

    Most wow players seem happy with somewhere in between that BUT if you want to be the best then, as long as you're relatively intelligent and your gaming experience has stretched slightly further than mario party and/or you're willing to put in the time to do the aforementioned "not fun" stuff then you have as much of a chance to reach the top as anyone else. Raiding at the highest level is always going to be detrimental to the other important aspects of your life... The majority of people are content with a happy-balance.

    You can't compare WoW to a physical sport - it's a tool, created by others that has inherent rules that everyone follows, like comparing Oil Painting to MS Paint, changed by PC Spec/UI/peripherals and even your internet connection.

    Anyway, point made :-P

  2. #1342
    So you truly believe that if you took a year off from school / work / whatever and worked on "becoming exceptional at WoW" 12 hours a day that you'd be on a par with the worlds best? Lets imagine you had the staying power, think you could do it?

    Same goes for every person in this thread. If they did it, think they'd be up there with the best?

    The answer is no.

    It's not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact.

  3. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So you truly believe that if you took a year off from school / work / whatever and worked on "becoming exceptional at WoW" 12 hours a day that you'd be on a par with the worlds best? Lets imagine you had the staying power, think you could do it?

    Same goes for every person in this thread. If they did it, think they'd be up there with the best?

    The answer is no.

    It's not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact.
    It's not fact dude - it's your opinion, nothing more. And yes, put simply I know I could - and I think a lot of people could. However I have absolutely no drive to do so because (for me, at least) nowadays real life comes first (work, relationship, family, friends, financial commitments) and I can just about justify the evening or two a week I get to raid at a casual level - unlike the years past where I was clearing naxx40 in vanilla, raiding 4 evenings a week with an entire sunday added in for good measure. Hell, I'm writing this from work at 5AM on a saturday morning while I monitor banking batch jobs overnight in Central London, the last thing I want is another job in WoW.

    You forget that "being the best" is not a solo effort. There are probably dedicated and far more knowledgeable raiders than you or I out there at the moment idling in relatively average raiding guilds because you still need a track record/experience for other, more progressive guilds to even give you a shot in their roster. To be the "best" you need to be willing to put in a level of time and dedication that 99% of people who play this game just wouldn't even consider... Your comments seem to put these top-players on some sort of god-like pedestal, a level of skill that us mere mortals could only ever dream of imitating and that is simply not the case.
    Last edited by mmoc0cdb03e806; 2013-04-20 at 04:59 AM.

  4. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    OK, seems you dont get it. What you consider challenging, Paragon consider it a roll over.

    What you consider a roll over, 60% of the raiders consider it challenging,

    I hope you get it now, its not that difficult to understand.[COLOR="red"]
    .
    I don't consider normals a roll over.. 7 weeks in and we got 6/12 bosses dead through wipes and allot of reading up! It's by no means a roll-over but to say things are overturned when sticking your head in the sand and not trying all the options / looking why your failing is laughable!

    I'm sorry but some one saying they chose the strat that is akin to standing in fire so dps dont't have to move so they can do a better rotation to up dps and healers just have to heal it and then complaining it's overturned is crazy! And yes the G>R>G>R strat of mag is exactly that... we will take more dmg to do less movement and out heal it to burn it down.... so in essence the same as standing in fire and not moving and healing through it to avoid the motion mechanic of getting out of bad shit!

  5. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    It's not fact dude - it's your opinion, nothing more. And yes, put simply I know I could - and I think a lot of people could. However I have absolutely no drive to do so because (for me, at least) nowadays real life comes first (work, relationship, family, friends, financial commitments) and I can just about justify the evening or two a week I get to raid at a casual level - unlike the years past where I was clearing naxx40 in vanilla, raiding 4 evenings a week with an entire sunday added in for good measure. Hell, I'm writing this from work at 5AM on a saturday morning while I monitor banking batch jobs overnight in Central London, the last thing I want is another job in WoW.

    You forget that "being the best" is not a solo effort. There are probably dedicated and far more knowledgeable raiders than you or I out there at the moment idling in relatively average raiding guilds because you still need a track record/experience for other, more progressive guilds to even give you a shot in their roster. To be the "best" you need to be willing to put in a level of time and dedication that 99% of people who play this game just wouldn't even consider... Your comments seem to put these top-players on some sort of god-like pedestal, a level of skill that us mere mortals could only ever dream of imitating and that is simply not the case.
    Organisational, soaicl and persistence abilities are also largely down to your personality and are not arrival at by sheer hard work. (Lazy people will never become hard workers just by hard work. Think about it.....)

  6. #1346
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Organisational, soaicl and persistence abilities are also largely down to your personality and are not arrival at by sheer hard work. (Lazy people will never become hard workers just by hard work. Think about it.....)
    'if you're born lazy, you may as well not try. Your personality defines you and you'll always be lazy, no matter how hard you try to change your ways'

    Enter self fulfilling prophecies and we can carefully cultivate failure, even properly engineer it for others.

  7. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    It's not wrong, but we'll have to agree to disagree because I obviously don't share your opinion. Exceptional WoW players (those in the top raiding guilds) are not exceptional/successful because of some sort of natural ability that raises them above the majority of players. They're successful because of the time/effort they dedicate (along with sharing the same goals as the rest of their guild) and pushing themselves to the limit where the rest of us would simply flake out and go out for a beer. You need a certain level of dedication to the game to move past the "check noxxic for rotation/talents/gems/reforge, jump into lfr and half concentrate on a boss while watching Deadlist Catch" style of player to the "sim everything, change reforges/talents/gems per boss, research every encounter and ability, spend every waking hour on the PTR, spend 12 hours wiping on a boss during progression" type of player.

    Most wow players seem happy with somewhere in between that BUT if you want to be the best then, as long as you're relatively intelligent and your gaming experience has stretched slightly further than mario party and/or you're willing to put in the time to do the aforementioned "not fun" stuff then you have as much of a chance to reach the top as anyone else. Raiding at the highest level is always going to be detrimental to the other important aspects of your life... The majority of people are content with a happy-balance.

    You can't compare WoW to a physical sport - it's a tool, created by others that has inherent rules that everyone follows, like comparing Oil Painting to MS Paint, changed by PC Spec/UI/peripherals and even your internet connection.

    Anyway, point made :-P
    Unfortunately what you say is not true anymore, the skill ceiling in raiding has gone up to far to let "random" people be anywhere close to the best at it, when you were raiding in vanilla it was different because it was hard in another way. If you have ever played in a top 100 guild you would know what i am talking about, there are some people who can never be that good. As a good example i have guildies of mine that play a lot and they spend as much time as people in world first guilds trying to become better, are they anywhere close to them in skill lvl though ? The answer is no. The natural attributes exist because at the highest level of raiding you need a specific amount of multi-tasking ability + you need to know how to work as a team, you need to be able to learn from your mistakes( This is according to me the one that most players are missing out on.) You also need to be smart enough to do the theorycrafting needed and anyone who has tried high level theorycrafting knows its not some simple math you learn when your 12 y.o. It takes some actual intellect to do it.

    Another thing you forgot which was mentioned in previous posts is that dedication is also an attribute, the difference in how much some people dedicate time on different things comes because some people are just more lazy and will never dedicate themselves to be the best at something. If you are not born with this drive to be the best at something(which i can tell you a lot of people are not.) you will never be one of the players we call the worlds best no matter how much you try. Some things are natural and you need to understand that no one playing in one of those top 100 guilds including me can never take you seriously if you keep on insisting otherwise. To be frank i have seen to much actual real examples proving otherwise for me to even reconsider what you mention.

  8. #1348
    Just want to point out that you are nowhere near the best in the world as well. Neither am i. People can improve over time as I'm sure you and i will.

    Thread has gone kinda off topic hasn't it ?
    Anyway I'd like to wish all the guilds who were having trouble with the bosses best of luck in downing them

  9. #1349
    Deleted
    Since we were talking about it I thought it might interest some people :

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...35981513375744

    Subject is difficulty of NM modes and the fact that people want some kind of beer league

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So you truly believe that if you took a year off from school / work / whatever and worked on "becoming exceptional at WoW" 12 hours a day that you'd be on a par with the worlds best? Lets imagine you had the staying power, think you could do it?

    Same goes for every person in this thread. If they did it, think they'd be up there with the best?

    The answer is no.

    It's not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact.
    I think your definition of word fact is sort of odd. Regardless i do believe that if i took a year off and just played wow for 12 (why not 16) hours a day 365, i would be "up there". Now the question is, is it worth it ? Which in my opinion is no.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Do you realize how easy normals would have to be for 60-75% of people to clear them? They wouldn't be much better than LFR.
    The problem with LFR is that it shares the expectations and time commitment of LFG: few wipes, finished in one sitting. I don't think that's what he's talking about.

    Allowing a large percentage of raiders to clear an instance can mean these groups finally kill the last boss three months after they started. That's nowhere near LFR, but it's also removed from T15N, in which it's plain that very few guilded raiders (let alone players who raided T14) will get far.

  12. #1352
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    There will be another nerf in few weeks thanks to item upgrade. But oh wait, this horrible unavoidable damage will still be in, thus making bosses impossible for "normal" raiders. And there will be another 10+ pages of claiming people sucessfully killing bosses are superhumans, while "normal" raiders supposedly cannot learn from their mistakes in any way, can't do anything right and 90% of them should have killed Lei Shen by that time anyway.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Celarent View Post
    The problem with LFR is that it shares the expectations and time commitment of LFG: few wipes, finished in one sitting. I don't think that's what he's talking about.

    Allowing a large percentage of raiders to clear an instance can mean these groups finally kill the last boss three months after they started. That's nowhere near LFR, but it's also removed from T15N, in which it's plain that very few guilded raiders (let alone players who raided T14) will get far.
    Okay, but if you tune it so the bottom of that 75% can get through in the time you want, the top 30% of the 75% are going to just faceroll the shit out of it. It will be barley worth doing. Then they go onto heroics, but if heroics are tuned up like some in here want then im sure a good chunk of those will hit a wall because normals were so easy and heroics are super hard. Congratulations, you just covered up one rift by creating another.

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Okay, but if you tune it so the bottom of that 75% can get through in the time you want, the top 30% of the 75% are going to just faceroll the shit out of it.
    He pulled "60-75%" out of the air, so I wouldn't try to upend his argument on the basis of a variable. The point is that there's a vast middle ground between LFR and T15N. There's also deep-sixing LFR and adding a manual-grouping "beer league" mode in its place.

    But here's the thing, and I wanted to mention it in response to one of Crashdummy's earlier posts: normal-mode players have a different play cycle than heroic-mode players.

    Most of them aren't interested in progressing through heroics, and will be satisfied by cherry-picking the one or two that are easiest.

    Instead, they'll grab an alt and work through normals all over again, experiencing the same checks and challenges over another few months due to lesser gear and familiarity with their new class or role-type. They'll do it again and again and again.

    It was a hugely popular playstyle in 2010, and there's no doubt in my mind that it led up to the high-water mark of 12 million subscribers.

  15. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Since we were talking about it I thought it might interest some people :

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...35981513375744

    Subject is difficulty of NM modes and the fact that people want some kind of beer league
    I begged him in a subsequent tweet not to over think this. Another difficulty isn't needed here. We don't need another tier in between normal and heroic, we just need normals to be normals. Not have TWO difficulties caterting to ONE group. That's it. Their likely to do something fucking stupid though. I can feel it. 10 man lfr que or something dumb like that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 04:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Okay, but if you tune it so the bottom of that 75% can get through in the time you want, the top 30% of the 75% are going to just faceroll the shit out of it. It will be barley worth doing. Then they go onto heroics, but if heroics are tuned up like some in here want then im sure a good chunk of those will hit a wall because normals were so easy and heroics are super hard. Congratulations, you just covered up one rift by creating another.
    I don't understand the problem? Traditionally heroic raiding guilds have always face rolled normals. Players who were interested in rolling normal only would do the bosses they could manage on heroic (they had a choice) but they also took alts and other players who weren't part of their normal raid regularly. Assuming the next raid tier is 4-5 months after the release of the last I see no problem with the majority of guilds having cleared it 3-4 months in.

    Like my guild is good enough to do heroics but were not even gonna get there. Were doing normals which at this point already feel like heroics. If normals were easier we'd be trying heroics and we'd have no right to complain. Their heroics. Their supposed to be hard. Normals are not supposed to be hard. Their supposed to be medium. Furthermore we'd also have a bunch of gear to farm up to help us out from the normal raids. I'm convinced that if we could just choose heroic bosses without having killed the last boss on normal theirs probably a few heroic bosses we could go in and down.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 04:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Celarent View Post
    He pulled "60-75%" out of the air, so I wouldn't try to upend his argument on the basis of a variable. The point is that there's a vast middle ground between LFR and T15N. There's also deep-sixing LFR and adding a manual-grouping "beer league" mode in its place.

    But here's the thing, and I wanted to mention it in response to one of Crashdummy's earlier posts: normal-mode players have a different play cycle than heroic-mode players.

    Most of them aren't interested in progressing through heroics, and will be satisfied by cherry-picking the one or two that are easiest.

    Instead, they'll grab an alt and work through normals all over again, experiencing the same checks and challenges over another few months due to lesser gear and familiarity with their new class or role-type. They'll do it again and again and again.

    It was a hugely popular playstyle in 2010, and there's no doubt in my mind that it led up to the high-water mark of 12 million subscribers.
    Yep. I also don't think it's that set in stone either. Like in some other raiding guilds who were primarily normal raiders they would pick a boss to kill a heroic on for that week and then do the rest on normal. This way they had the best of both worlds. They had some challenge and they could pick and choose the challenge but they also had some easy boses to give them a break. It wasn't cock block after cokc block after cock block.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-20 at 04:32 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yep. I also don't think it's that set in stone either. Like in some other raiding guilds who were primarily normal raiders they would pick a boss to kill a heroic on for that week and then do the rest on normal. This way they had the best of both worlds. They had some challenge and they could pick and choose the challenge but they also had some easy boses to give them a break. It wasn't cock block after cokc block after cock block.
    I am in no way a cutting edge "Heroic" raider these days. I had those days come and go long ago. But, that being said, we downed our first heroic boss in ToT last night and I would say it was a equal ramp up in difficulty as far as progression goes.

    I don't understand the "Cock block after Cock block" comment. Horridon initially was quite rough I will admit and pre-nerf council was difficult as well. But for our raid group once we passed council the next "Road block" was Durumu and then Iron Qon.

    Shouldn't the raid have barriers? Killing bosses in just a few pulls will suck the "epicness" out of the game. LFR already gives people a spot to "See things."
    I get it.. LFR Sucks, there is a whole other thread on why its annoying or people love it, thats not the point of my comment. The whole idea of things being too hard just seems to baffle me. We are hardly what, 5 weeks (?) into the tier? We all know they will nerf things to give better access to those having difficulties. Where did this attitude of I want my stuff, I want it now, and I want it the way I want it, come from?

    Streamlining Boss tiers and loot tables is not going to make people happier, it will either make them complacent or bored, either way that will be horrible for what little gaming "communities" there are on the server left.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    We don't need another tier in between normal and heroic, we just need normals to be normals.
    Whatever the difficulty of the normal modes, the initial heroic modes especially can not be too far ahead. One of the purposes of normal mode raiding is to prepare people for the heroic modes. If you make the normals easier, it will indirectly affect the heroic designs. This is worth taking into consideration.

  18. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by royals View Post
    I am in no way a cutting edge "Heroic" raider these days. I had those days come and go long ago. But, that being said, we downed our first heroic boss in ToT last night and I would say it was a equal ramp up in difficulty as far as progression goes.

    I don't understand the "Cock block after Cock block" comment. Horridon initially was quite rough I will admit and pre-nerf council was difficult as well. But for our raid group once we passed council the next "Road block" was Durumu and then Iron Qon.

    Shouldn't the raid have barriers? Killing bosses in just a few pulls will suck the "epicness" out of the game. LFR already gives people a spot to "See things."
    I get it.. LFR Sucks, there is a whole other thread on why its annoying or people love it, thats not the point of my comment. The whole idea of things being too hard just seems to baffle me. We are hardly what, 5 weeks (?) into the tier? We all know they will nerf things to give better access to those having difficulties. Where did this attitude of I want my stuff, I want it now, and I want it the way I want it, come from?

    Streamlining Boss tiers and loot tables is not going to make people happier, it will either make them complacent or bored, either way that will be horrible for what little gaming "communities" there are on the server left.
    Dear god can we please not turn this into an entitlement debate. The boses are to god damn hard PERIOD. Their to god damned hard for NORMAL MODES. Raiding NORMALS this tier is worse than heroics in previous expansions.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 05:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keoren View Post
    Whatever the difficulty of the normal modes, the initial heroic modes especially can not be too far ahead. One of the purposes of normal mode raiding is to prepare people for the heroic modes. If you make the normals easier, it will indirectly affect the heroics designs. This is worth taking into consideration.
    I mean I could make that same argument for LFR it's not really the point. The variance really has just swung the other way. Normals do MORE THAN AN ADEQUATE JOB of preparing the raid for heroics because heroics aren't that much harder. If you accept that's the role of normals. I don't and I don't think it should be a consideration and it hasn't in the past. In fact some normal bosses are just plain easier. If we could access heroic jin rokh we probably would have killed him long before kllling lei shen.

    The initial modes can be as far ahead as you like, normal raiding isn't meant to prepare players for heroic modes. Just like heroic dungeons aren't meant to prepare players for challenge modes. In fact that's an excellent example of the gap that should be set up between normal raids and heroics. Mind you I don't think normal raids should be as easy as this current batch of heroic dungeons but the important thing is that the gap between normal raids and heroic raids should be ALOT CLOSER to the gap between challenge modes and heroics. The players raiding heroic modes are by and large already prepared in any real sense of the word. Making normals easier will have ZERO effect on heroics because well it never has in the past and also because making normals harder this tier hasn't made heroics harder. In fact the gap between the two has just shrunk. I don't see why we should accept what your saying as truth when it doesn't follow. Theirs nothing to say you can't make normals easier and just have a cock block at heroic. Normals don't need to prepare you for heroic. Heroics prepare you for heroics.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-20 at 05:40 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    -snip- Normals don't need to prepare you for heroic. Heroics prepare you for heroics.
    I feel this is a rather closeminded statement. In this vein then Leveling would only prepare you to be sub Level Cap, 5 man normals don't get you ready for 5 man heroics, BG's teach you nothing about RBGs and duels can't help you arena just duel. I feel a chicken and the egg argument here coming but you can't say a lower difficulty doesn't prepare you for a higher difficulty, its how the game is built. You cannot just wake up saying "I'm a heroic raider now", and go do heroics with a heroic guild.

    Another thing, I keep see you saying things like this, "Normals are Normals and Normal people should Normally be able to Normally kill Normal bosses." I hear what you are saying but don't see the Majority of guilds having super hard times with normals right now. Lets look at wowprogress (with a nice grain of salt of course)
    Lei Shen 3942 (17.97%) . 18% of t15 guilds killing Lei Shen already about 5 weeks in. Is this poor in your opinion? What would be a good number? I'm not asking with sarcasm but more with a little confusion. If 18% of guilds can kill it just this far into the tier would you not call that decent?

    Should all "Normal" Raiders have the tier finished already to be farming for 4pc that doesn't matter because they have finished the tier? Where is the player/raid progression if it is all supposed to be over already? This is the heart of my argument. If they should be easier, why? What is to gain other than being done quicker?

    The reward from the raids being easier, if you truly just want to do normals and not do anything else, is nothing but less time required to finish the raid. Then what is there left to do but ask for more content?

  20. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by royals View Post
    I feel this is a rather closeminded statement. In this vein then Leveling would only prepare you to be sub Level Cap, 5 man normals don't get you ready for 5 man heroics, BG's teach you nothing about RBGs and duels can't help you arena just duel. I feel a chicken and the egg argument here coming but you can't say a lower difficulty doesn't prepare you for a higher difficulty, its how the game is built. You cannot just wake up saying "I'm a heroic raider now", and go do heroics with a heroic guild.

    Another thing, I keep see you saying things like this, "Normals are Normals and Normal people should Normally be able to Normally kill Normal bosses." I hear what you are saying but don't see the Majority of guilds having super hard times with normals right now. Lets look at wowprogress (with a nice grain of salt of course)
    Lei Shen 3942 (17.97%) . 18% of t15 guilds killing Lei Shen already about 5 weeks in. Is this poor in your opinion? What would be a good number? I'm not asking with sarcasm but more with a little confusion. If 18% of guilds can kill it just this far into the tier would you not call that decent?

    Should all "Normal" Raiders have the tier finished already to be farming for 4pc that doesn't matter because they have finished the tier? Where is the player/raid progression if it is all supposed to be over already? This is the heart of my argument. If they should be easier, why? What is to gain other than being done quicker?

    The reward from the raids being easier, if you truly just want to do normals and not do anything else, is nothing but less time required to finish the raid. Then what is there left to do but ask for more content?
    Yes it's an extremely poor figure but it's also entirely misleading. It doesn't give you an overall picture. Just because 18% of the top tier of raiders have killed the final boss 5 weeks in IT DOESN"T MEAN A DAMN THING FOR NORMALS.

    It isn't a chicken and an egg argument. In the past normals didn't prepare you for heroics. You had to wipe on those heroics for god knows how many attempts depending on how hard those heroic bosses were. Again do you need to know your heroic dungeons for challenge modes? Well no not really. it's nice but you could just as easily jump into challenge modes at 463 without ever having touched a normal dungeon and you'd still have to figure it out. Five man normals DONT get you prepared for heroics or for challenge modes anymore because they've abandoned that. In the same way normals don't need to prepare you for heroic raids because guess what your still gonna have to wipe over and over again. This is of course less true in this tier because hey look we've got TWO LEVELS OF DIFFICULTY created to cater to one group but in the past it held true that you still had to wipe on heroics.

    All normal raiders should finish the tier two months or so before the next one comes out. That way they have somet time to do some of the heroic bosses but also get alts in and friends in who aren't part of the main raid. I don't think it should be set in stone like that but you wanted a number so I gave it to you. Theirs alot to gain by it being easier, least of which being the inclusion of friends and family who can't and don't cut it in this new harder normal raids. Least of which the inclusion of a much larger population that is better than lfr but not good enough for heroic raids (but did in the past). The ONLY ONLY ONLY people who should make the argument about asking for more content are the developers. I don't understand why players do. It's not your job to worry about that it's the developers. In fact I generally find that the people who make this argument and aren't developers are content locusts who play 18 hours a day and won't be satisfied anyway. This group should not be catered to but has been in this expansion. If people don't like the content they will unsub just as easily if they are bored from it.

    Heroics in previous expansions were EASIER THAN NORMAL ToT. No kidding. H bethilac is a joke compared to most of the normal bosses for any number of reasons. Normals this tier are through the fucking roof. They need to be nerfed and the developers need to rethink how they tune normals and the overall one size fits all raid philosophy.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-20 at 06:38 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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