Holy mother 10man nerf

[Keoren]

In the past normals didn't prepare you for heroics.

Normals were always the content that would indirectly train raiders and guilds so that they could go and try their luck on the harder difficulty. Even if the normal modes are the main content for many, they are also the only step right before the heroic modes. Heroics are also the next logical step for the guilds that are finishing the normal content and are looking for more. As a result, the difficulty of the easier heroic modes has mostly been somewhat a linear increase from the harder normal modes. It is for the sake of those numerous guilds that likely do not finish all of the heroic content, or even half of it, but aren't content with the normal difficulty alone.

Heroics in previous expansions were EASIER THAN NORMAL ToT

This depends on the tier and the point at which the comparison is made, mainly for the relative gear levels of the sample raid groups. Heroic Beth'tilac was not hard but it was still far more challenging than practically all of normal mode ToT when done appropriately undergeared.

[Glorious Leader]

Normals were always the content that would indirectly train raiders and guilds so that they could go and try their luck on the harder difficulty. Even if the normal modes are the main content for many, they are also the only step right before the heroic modes. Heroics are also the next logical step for the guilds that are finishing the normal content and are looking for more. As a result, the difficulty of the easier heroic modes has mostly been somewhat a linear increase from the harder normal modes. It is for the sake of those numerous guilds that likely do not finish all of the heroic content, or even half of it, but aren't content with the normal difficulty alone.

They aren't and they never were. That's a misreading of history. They were progression because you needed the gear and to kill the last boss in the instance to unlock the actual heroic modes but let's say tmmrw they made it so you didn't need to do that. Let's say heroic modes just scaled your gear like challenge modes and you didn't need to kill lei shen? Would you need to do normals? Of course not. You could just go in and fight the heroic mode bosses. The normal mode being required is an artificial limitation put upon raiders by the developers. Either because they didn't have the tech in the past or because they want (for some arcane reason or another) heroic raiders to have to do normals, probably as a means to gate them. Normals don't "train" anybody or anything. Heroic raiders are trained in heroics NOT IN NORMALS. In a similar fashion heroic dungeons aren't a lead up to challenge modes. Theirs a clear division between those two and the same should be for raids. Now the division isn't as clear this tier because NORMALS ARE TO HARD but in the past the division was quite clear. People who downed normals weren't necessarily heroic material and no amount of farming normals would make them so. People who down normals in this tier are almost all virtually heroic raid material. "Training" not required.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:20 PM ----------

This depends on the tier and the point at which the comparison is made, mainly for the relative gear levels of the sample raid groups. Heroic Beth'tilac was not hard but it was still far more challenging than practically all of normal mode ToT when done appropriately undergeared.

hardly. heroic bethilac is a joke compared to the normals of this tier. From a healer perspective I would kill for a fight like that. I could stand and hardcast. If I avoided shit on H bethilac I didn't take dmg from it. It was FAR EASIER. From a healer perspective H B was far less pressured and far easier overall. My job was simple. Go up with the tank and heal him and the dps who went up. They didn't take much dmg and more importantly when they avoided something they didn't take dmg from that something. At the end of the fight we stack and que cooldowns up. EASY AS PISS.

[Keoren]

You could just go in and fight the heroic mode bosses.

Heroic raiders are trained in heroics NOT IN NORMALS.

Many guilds are not prepared for this. Normal modes do not train heroic raiders into becoming heroic raiders, but they are a platform for the guilds that are to take their baby steps into the heroics of a given tier.

If there was only LFR and heroic, how many would make the transition?

The heroic modes are an extension of content to those who have managed to tackle the normal modes. While from a game design point of view I would probably prefer more gradual jumps in difficulty through the normal modes, it makes sense for the hardest normal mode to not be that far from the easiest heroic mode.

People who downed normals weren't necessarily heroic material and no amount of farming normals would make them so.

I am willing to argue that if you are capable of clearing the normal content of almost any tier starting from Ulduar then you are also capable of doing the easier hard/heroic modes, especially after some item upgrades. TotGC is probably the only odd one out, though I would rather consider the progression to go 10N -> 25N -> 10H -> 25H. Dragon Soul without the stacking debuff can also be arguable.

EASY AS PISS.

Were you relatively as geared for the heroic modes at that point as you were for the normal modes at the point of the examples you are giving? Please also take into consideration that the gear jump even from the T14 heroic modes to T15 normal modes is big.

Heroic Beth'tilac was not particularly difficult, but the claim that it was easier than normal ToT seems slightly unusual. I did not find ToT harder than heroic Firelands when healing through the former even at ilvl 500. Granted, my experiences differ since I've done both on 25-man. Perhaps our perspectives also differ because I am thinking more about the throughput required and not focusing too much on the mechanics. Even though the required numbers are relatively much lower, the amount of mechanics present on some ToT normal modes is higher than that of many Firelands heroic modes.

[Glorious Leader]

Many guilds are not prepared for this. Normal modes do not train heroic raiders into becoming heroic raiders, but they are a platform for the guilds that are to take their baby steps into the heroics of a given tier.

If there was only LFR and heroic, how many would make the transition?

The heroic modes are an extension of content to those who have managed to tackle the normal modes. While from a game design point of view I would probably prefer more gradual jumps in difficulty through the normal modes, it makes sense for the hardest normal mode to not be that far from the easiest heroic mode.



I am willing to argue that if you are capable of clearing the normal content of almost any tier starting from Ulduar then you are also capable of doing the easier hard/heroic modes, especially after some item upgrades. TotGC is probably the only odd one out, though I would rather consider the progression to go 10N -> 25N -> 10H -> 25H.

Hardly. We cleared normal ulduar in a WEEK. Their were maybe 3 hard bosses. Were not clearing normal ToT in a week and few guilds are apparently. ToT is through the fucking ROOF in terms of difficulty and every fight on normal feels like a hardcore or worse fight in previous tiers.

You know what else many guilds aren't prepared for? Normal raids with heroic tuning. How many guilds do you think will make the transition through this tier? All signs point to less and less and less. And if less and less are doing normal how many do you think will make the transition to heroic? even less.

The heroic modes are content that should be aimed for a very small subset of the raiding community that is interested in such challenge. Just like challenge modes. They should not be aimed for players who want to raid normals, i.e Medium difficulty. I'm all for heroic modes doing exactly what they should do be a real challenge. In the same way I'm for normals for normal raiders. If normal raiders want to attempt heroics that's fine but the game doesn't need to have normals tuned with those players in mind. It needs to have normals tuned as normals. Heroics will take care of themselves. In the past the difference between heroic and normal was clear and well defined. The transition between normal and heroic was never an issue when normals were piss easy (in their own right and relative to now) I do not see why it should be a consideration now.

[Deleted]

Hardly. We cleared normal ulduar in a WEEK. Their were maybe 3 hard bosses. Were not clearing normal ToT in a week and few guilds are apparently. ToT is through the fucking ROOF in terms of difficulty and every fight on normal feels like a hardcore or worse fight in previous tiers.

You know what else many guilds aren't prepared for? Normal raids with heroic tuning. How many guilds do you think will make the transition through this tier? All signs point to less and less and less. And if less and less are doing normal how many do you think will make the transition to heroic? even less.

The heroic modes are content that should be aimed for a very small subset of the raiding community that is interested in such challenge. Just like challenge modes. They should not be aimed for players who want to raid normals, i.e Medium difficulty. I'm all for heroic modes doing exactly that. In the same way I'm for normals for normal raiders. If normal raiders want to attempt heroics that's fine but the game doesn't need to have normals tuned with those players in mind. It needs to have normals tuned as normals. Heroics will take care of themselves. In the past the difference between heroic and normal was clear and well defined. The transition between normal and heroic was never an issue when normals were piss easy (in their own right and relative to now) I do not see why it should be a consideration now.

The thing is that you are clearly stating you are a normal raider and have been doing so all the time in this thread, that much we can agree on. At the same time however a lot of your posts indicate that you have the goal of killing a few heroic bosses too and i dont know if its just me but it seems a bit odd that you call it overtuned when you are alrdy half way through the instance after just a few weeks and still your only a normal raider and the definition of a normal raider is not someone who wants to raid heroics later on. So to me the fact that your guild is where its at tells me its proper tuning for you guys atleast, since you make yourself out to be normal raiders. But im really not sure how to interpret what you say well enough because a lot of what you say indicate you are someone who wants to raid heroics and just want to be done with normals quick and therefor you want nerfs. However sometimes you go back to the subject of you only being a normal mode guild and its to hard for you, i feel you need to make up your mind, but maybe thats just me.

[Deleted]

Hardly. We cleared normal ulduar in a WEEK. Their were maybe 3 hard bosses. Were not clearing normal ToT in a week and few guilds are apparently. ToT is through the fucking ROOF in terms of difficulty and every fight on normal feels like a hardcore or worse fight in previous tiers.

You know what else many guilds aren't prepared for? Normal raids with heroic tuning. How many guilds do you think will make the transition through this tier? All signs point to less and less and less. And if less and less are doing normal how many do you think will make the transition to heroic? even less.

The heroic modes are content that should be aimed for a very small subset of the raiding community that is interested in such challenge. Just like challenge modes. They should not be aimed for players who want to raid normals, i.e Medium difficulty. I'm all for heroic modes doing exactly what they should do be a real challenge. In the same way I'm for normals for normal raiders. If normal raiders want to attempt heroics that's fine but the game doesn't need to have normals tuned with those players in mind. It needs to have normals tuned as normals. Heroics will take care of themselves. In the past the difference between heroic and normal was clear and well defined. The transition between normal and heroic was never an issue when normals were piss easy (in their own right and relative to now) I do not see why it should be a consideration now.

You cleared ulduar raiding 5 times a week and overgearing it with well above average raiders.

You were not overgeared when hitting ToT, and you are not raiding 5 times a week. Unless you are and in this case there's a clear problem because we've downed megaera 2 weeks ago raiding 5 hours a week.

If you were overgearing ToT and raiding 4/5 times a week you'd have LeiShen and some heroics by now.

[isadorr]

If that time comes, then maybe that line has to be draw, but one thing is sure, the NORMAL line SHOULD NOT be so close to the heroic one that the last Normal boss is harder than the first Heroic boss.

Normal and Heroic lines are so close that they actually intersect.

Both Normal and Heoric raiding are now being tuned for heroic raiders.

---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 06:12 PM ----------




Yes it was under scrutiny, it was SO under scrutiny that it was changed in the very same TBC, with Zul Aman and Magister Terrace producing T5 quality loot.

The game reached its peak during Wrath, not TBC.

---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 06:13 PM ----------



No one is asking for that.

How can you possibly tune for bad players? The majority of the wow player base is horrible. Look at the averages of normal raiding and see really bad numbers especially for the gear they are wearing. The only reason most of is downed is because they are over gearing the place by a mile. You tune to a reasonable difficulty which is too much for bad players. So they continue to dumb it down and nerf with people still having trouble.

You still have to use your brain, know your class/spec, gem, reforge,etc. If you dont know a priority rotation or your class, then dont expect to down much.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:55 PM ----------

You cleared ulduar raiding 5 times a week and overgearing it with well above average raiders.

You were not overgeared when hitting ToT, and you are not raiding 5 times a week. Unless you are and in this case there's a clear problem because we've downed megaera 2 weeks ago raiding 5 hours a week.

If you were overgearing ToT and raiding 4/5 times a week you'd have LeiShen and some heroics by now.

I just posted after you and said a lot of the same. Over gearing content because the players arent producing the numbers they should for their gear so they wipe and call the content too hard. If people did the dps they should for their class/spec. and gear, people would walk through content like progression guilds do. You cant expect to log and look at your toon, see 515ivl or 510ilvl and say oh im good now we can down this.

[KaPe]

hardly. heroic bethilac is a joke compared to the normals of this tier. From a healer perspective I would kill for a fight like that. I could stand and hardcast. If I avoided shit on H bethilac I didn't take dmg from it. It was FAR EASIER. From a healer perspective H B was far less pressured and far easier overall. My job was simple. Go up with the tank and heal him and the dps who went up. They didn't take much dmg and more importantly when they avoided something they didn't take dmg from that something. At the end of the fight we stack and que cooldowns up. EASY AS PISS.

You conveniently ignored the fact that entire firelands got nerfed by 15-25% - which is pretty much what's happening right now with Legendary gems becoming more common and item upgrades coming in next patch. But let's keep cherry picking old bosses and compare them to current content.

Hey, did you know that Heroic DS with 35% nerfs was easier than ToT? Imagine that. Do you also know how long it took to get there? Way longer than 5 weeks, that's for sure.

[Glorious Leader]

Were you relatively as geared for the heroic modes at that point as you were for the normal modes at the point of the examples you are giving? Please also take into consideration that the gear jump even from the T14 heroic modes to T15 normal modes is big.

Heroic Beth'tilac was not particularly difficult, but the claim that it was easier than normal ToT seems slightly unusual. I did not find ToT harder than heroic Firelands when healing through the former even at ilvl 500. Granted, my experiences differ since I've done both on 25-man. Perhaps our perspectives also differ because I am thinking more about the throughput required and not focusing too much on the mechanics. Even though the required numbers are relatively much lower, the amount of mechanics present on some ToT normal modes is higher than that of many Firelands heroic modes.

It's hard to say. I had raided normals and some of the previous heroics that tier so I was fairly well geared. I'm currently 504ilvl and am 5/12 in ToT. The claim that it's easier than normal ToT isn't unusual in the slightest. Like I said If I moved to avoid dmg in normal or even heroic firelands I avoided that dmg. In normal ToT if I move to avoid dmg well I still take dmg. It makes no sense.

[Crashdummy]

Being "gifted" at WoW is a combination of things, and more akin to having decent spacial awareness and the ability to multitask. The majority of people who have been brought up playing computer games will have some sort of aptitude for WoW.

People who play at a "Paragon Level" are great wow players, exceptional in fact but it's not because of some sort of natural gift - frankly I find that comment slightly laughable. People hit a "skill ceiling" in WoW due to many different things like what sort of guild you're in/environment that you're being exposed to, do you fundamentally understand what your abilities do and how stats, range, priorities work etc.

Simply put; the largest factor in even a casual player being exceptional at playing their class is research and practise. Paragon are great at what they do primarily because they do the research, they min-max gear and reforges, they know their characters and abilities inside out and, above all they have the time and the enthusiasm to dedicate an inordinate amount of effort to WoW.

I firmly believe that, given enough time and with enough effort even "average" players (which is what, anybody doing normal modes?) could raid in a heroic team and push ranks on WoL. Getting to world-first level requires an amount of dedication that most people just don't have - it's not about natural ability.

This is not true. There are many factors involved on your "playing skills", not only your guilds, spacial awareness and practice. For example, reaction times vary between people, so is how fast you can move your fingers, to cquote two examples.

Research and practive improve your gameplay, but also improves that gameplay of those that have exceptional map awareness, exceptional reaction times, exceptional movement speed in their hands, exceptional skill to forsee what will come, exceptional reaction times against a mistake, etc, etc, etc.

So no, most average players wouldnt have a chance in heroic raids, no matter how much they practice.

Its not about dedication, because those with natural ability that put the same dedication as you will ALWAYS be a lot better.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 05:02 PM ----------

Do you realize how easy normals would have to be for 60-75% of people to clear them? They wouldn't be much better than LFR.

Well, thats what i think. The numbers would vary, i would be sattisfied with a 59%. Certainly a lot more than 25 though.

[Glorious Leader]

You cleared ulduar raiding 5 times a week and overgearing it with well above average raiders.

You were not overgeared when hitting ToT, and you are not raiding 5 times a week. Unless you are and in this case there's a clear problem because we've downed megaera 2 weeks ago raiding 5 hours a week.

If you were overgearing ToT and raiding 4/5 times a week you'd have LeiShen and some heroics by now.

We cleared it in a week of raiding 3-4 days, only one more than our current raid schedule. We also were not overgeared. I'm currently 504ilvl and starting raiding ToT at ilvl 498. I was not overgeared for ulduar and I'm not overgeared for ToT. How much more gear do I need? Ulduar was PISS EASY by comparison. This raid is off the fucking wall.

[Osmeric]

You conveniently ignored the fact that entire firelands got nerfed by 15-25% - which is pretty much what's happening right now with Legendary gems becoming more common and item upgrades coming in next patch.

The legendary gems will buff output by a few percent. They are in no way comparable to 15-25% nerfs. Ditto for the upgrades, and ditto for legendary gems + upgrades.

[Glorious Leader]

You conveniently ignored the fact that entire firelands got nerfed by 15-25% - which is pretty much what's happening right now with Legendary gems becoming more common and item upgrades coming in next patch. But let's keep cherry picking old bosses and compare them to current content.

Hey, did you know that Heroic DS with 35% nerfs was easier than ToT? Imagine that. Do you also know how long it took to get there? Way longer than 5 weeks, that's for sure.

I didn't ignore it to be honest I didn't even know about it. That's fine I guess it means they'll just have to nerf more of ToT to which I've been in favor of all along anyway. Item upgrades will also nerf it yes I agree. That just means the raid is to hard if all these nerfs are coming and were not even in the ballpark of 5.4. Hell they couldn't evne wait for ilvl upgrades to come out before they nerfed it. It needed a nerf. It needs more. ToT is through the fucking wall in terms of difficulty.

[Keoren]

Hardly. We cleared normal ulduar in a WEEK. Their were maybe 3 hard bosses. Were not clearing normal ToT in a week and few guilds are apparently. ToT is through the fucking ROOF in terms of difficulty and every fight on normal feels like a hardcore or worse fight in previous tiers.

If you cleared Ulduar in a week then your guild was reasonably good by the standards of that time.

Looking at the point that I also edited into my previous reply, I think that when talking about the design of the encounters then the ToT bosses have quite a number of mechanics. The numbers required are still relatively smaller than they are for just about every past heroic mode, apart from a number of offenders such as Jaraxxus and Morchok.

You know what else many guilds aren't prepared for? Normal raids with heroic tuning. How many guilds do you think will make the transition through this tier? All signs point to less and less and less. And if less and less are doing normal how many do you think will make the transition to heroic? even less.

I think the problem with this tier on normal is the lack of gradual entry bosses. Many might not get the feeling that they have their foot in the door, making the transition into T15 harder.

The heroic modes are content that should be aimed for a very small subset of the raiding community that is interested in such challenge. Just like challenge modes. They should not be aimed for players who want to raid normals, i.e Medium difficulty. I'm all for heroic modes doing exactly what they should do be a real challenge.

I am not against this on a personal level either, however.

If normal raiders want to attempt heroics that's fine but the game doesn't need to have normals tuned with those players in mind.

This is the current design we have at hand. It extends the content for these guilds and I am comfortable saying that they are a majority of all the guilds that end up killing any bosses on heroic. They also make up a notable portion of all the guilds in the game and require content that is on their level.

In normal ToT if I move to avoid dmg well I still take dmg. It makes no sense.

I really don't see the issue. This merely combines two mechanics into one. The falling rocks on Tortos are practically an equivalent of the flame patches and the unavoidable fire damage of Beth'tilak being tied into a single mechanic.

[Glorious Leader]

The thing is that you are clearly stating you are a normal raider and have been doing so all the time in this thread, that much we can agree on. At the same time however a lot of your posts indicate that you have the goal of killing a few heroic bosses too and i dont know if its just me but it seems a bit odd that you call it overtuned when you are alrdy half way through the instance after just a few weeks and still your only a normal raider and the definition of a normal raider is not someone who wants to raid heroics later on. So to me the fact that your guild is where its at tells me its proper tuning for you guys atleast, since you make yourself out to be normal raiders. But im really not sure how to interpret what you say well enough because a lot of what you say indicate you are someone who wants to raid heroics and just want to be done with normals quick and therefor you want nerfs. However sometimes you go back to the subject of you only being a normal mode guild and its to hard for you, i feel you need to make up your mind, but maybe thats just me.

5/12 isn't halfway but relative to what we did in the past it's a joke. In previous tiers this group would be 11/12 at least by now. Put us in any other raid tier and were pretty much there. This raid tier however is through the fucking roof. It's overtuned for NORMALS because we use to kick the shit out of normals. Now I quit for a bit and didn't plan or intend to raid heroics but I'm being asked to do that in these normal raids.

I don't want to raid heroics. I'm being asked to raid at that level though. I just wanted to come back and do normals and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE sample some of the heroic bosses this tier. Not heroic bosses on normal mode.

[Deleted]

It's hard to say. I had raided normals and some of the previous heroics that tier so I was fairly well geared. I'm currently 504ilvl and am 5/12 in ToT. The claim that it's easier than normal ToT isn't unusual in the slightest. Like I said If I moved to avoid dmg in normal or even heroic firelands I avoided that dmg. In normal ToT if I move to avoid dmg well I still take dmg. It makes no sense.

Some abilities are just made so that they do damage even if you avoid them, the difference however is oneshot or healable damage, thats the passive damage output of that boss when its not rampaging and as you already know if you dont want to take any damage at all you are free to not kill the green head at all, you are choosing to do it your way and sure you can argue that just cuz its possible to faceroll through it with gear and just spam heal you have to do it, but with that mentality you wont even be clearing normals for a long time, blizzard has stated many times: Normal modes are not made to have any hard dps checks or healing checks, if you do the right strat you will succeed. Now this doesnt mean some bosses cant be bruteforced because its impossible to make bosses not being affected by gear, because thats how raiding in wow works. You have made the choice yourself to take moderate damage even though you avoided the explosion instead of having to run from beams and take 0 damage.

[Glorious Leader]

If you cleared Ulduar in a week then your guild was reasonably good by the standards of that time.

Looking at the point that I also edited into my previous reply, I think that when talking about the design of the encounters then the ToT bosses have quite a number of mechanics. The numbers required are still relatively smaller than they are for just about every past heroic mode, apart from a number of offenders such as Jaraxxus and Morchok.



I think the problem with this tier on normal is the lack of gradual entry bosses. Many might not get the feeling that they have their foot in the door, making the transition into T15 harder.



I am not against this on a personal level either, however.



This is the current design we have at hand. It extends the content for these guilds and I am comfortable saying that they are a majority of all the guilds that end up killing any bosses on heroic. They also make up a notable portion of all the guilds in the game and require content that is on their level.



I really don't see the issue. This merely combines two mechanics into one. The falling rocks on Tortos are practically an equivalent of the flame patches and the unavoidable fire damage of Beth'tilak being tied into a single mechanic.

The issue is that if I'm busy moving from a bit of dmg then I'm not healing that dmg. It divides my focus up between having to run and avoid that dmg and automatically puts me at a defecit as a healer. Theirs only so much shit I can pay attention to. I can't divide my focus up a million ways and be asked to do any of those things effectively. If I move out of dmg I should not take that dmg because otherwise I'm not gonna do as good a job healing that dmg because my focus is set on constantly running an obstacle course, dodging shiit left right and center.

They don't make up a majorioty of the guilds in the game. You have to be kidding. The majority of the guilds in the game probably aren't raiding, they exist as purely social conventions. The majority of raiding guilds MIGHT BE heroic raiding guilds now but that's only because the tuning is so piss poor that the normal raiding guilds have packed up and are now just lfr guilds.

THe lack of a proper curve is a problem I agree.


The number of mechanics are actually greater and their impact is far more detrimental. We killed ULduar in a week. We weren't overgeared and we only raided one more day than we do now. The players (by and large) haven't changed. Their still just as good. This raid is off the fucking wall in terms of difficulty and I have a hard time understand why everyone is defending this.

[Sesshou]

We cleared it in a week of raiding 3-4 days, only one more than our current raid schedule. We also were not overgeared. I'm currently 504ilvl and starting raiding ToT at ilvl 498. I was not overgeared for ulduar and I'm not overgeared for ToT. How much more gear do I need? Ulduar was PISS EASY by comparison. This raid is off the fucking wall.

Ulduar isn't really comparable. Have you not noticed that since LFR they have gradually increased the difficulty of normal modes? Ulduar had no LFR and so it made a lot of sense to make normal fairly accessible (especially if you consider that people were going there from Naxx which was ludicrously trivial). ToT has lfr, if your friends aren't all that great or you just want to go raid and dick around. Normal is really just LFR where things do non trivial damage and bosses have proportionally more hp as LFR really does have pretty much identical mechanics this time. If you want to raid in a setting where you aren't punished for something like ignoring 2 entire mechanics on Mag, they have created that for you.

[Glorious Leader]

Some abilities are just made so that they do damage even if you avoid them, the difference however is oneshot or healable damage, thats the passive damage output of that boss when its not rampaging and as you already know if you dont want to take any damage at all you are free to not kill the green head at all, you are choosing to do it your way and sure you can argue that just cuz its possible to faceroll through it with gear and just spam heal you have to do it, but with that mentality you wont even be clearing normals for a long time, blizzard has stated many times: Normal modes are not made to have any hard dps checks or healing checks, if you do the right strat you will succeed. Now this doesnt mean some bosses cant be bruteforced because its impossible to make bosses not being affected by gear, because thats how raiding in wow works. You have made the choice yourself to take moderate damage even though you avoided the explosion instead of having to run from beams and take 0 damage.

If meg was the only boss who did this you'd have a point. Tortos does this as well and going forward I'm sure we'll have to look forward to more cheese mechanics that don't make the fight feel hard, they make the fight feel cheesy or overwhelming. Like the shitty camera angles in Ninja Gaiden. DIdn't make ninja gaiden feel hard, it just made it feel cheesy and stupid.

We do the right strat. We killed meg and to be honest I don't need lectures on our strat from forum guys. Like I said before if the strat we choose to do wasn't meant to be viable then they ought not to let us do it that way. If they intend that we can do it that way then they ought to tune the fight so we can do it that way and it's still NORMAL.

[royals]

-snip-
All normal raiders should finish the tier two months or so before the next one comes out. That way they have somet time to do some of the heroic bosses but also get alts in and friends in who aren't part of the main raid. I don't think it should be set in stone like that but you wanted a number so I gave it to you.
-snip

You are, right here, arguing exactly what I'm saying. 2 months before the next tier comes out. We haven't even had patch 5.3 come out yet (/spoiler its not a new tier of raiding) We have a LONG time left in this tier, so you and your guild will have plenty of time to get your friends in to see the normal mode content.

What is your current progression? What are you stuck on? How is your raid geared? I seem to hear a lot of anger about the difficulty without questions about the raid itself. Is it possible your raids understanding of the mechanics isn't equal to your expectation of the bosses?