Why does everyone hate LFR?

[Kuthe]

Reasons why it sucks;
Free loot.
Faceroll bosses. If they require more than 40IQ they get nerfed harder. e.g. *big bug. big eye*
Bad people go in there and just typically suck.
Good people go in there and just typically troll.
People go afk for free loot.
People rage at others when they themselves show they don't know the tactics.
Tank queue times.

[KillstrikeEL]

I'm with Kuthe -- tank queue times are pretty terrible lol. That's also a reason why I try to queue with some other people... to speed up the queue a bit xD

[Ethes]

I think LFR is currently WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to important for your characters. For someone like me who missed out on most of T14 and still needed to catch up on a lot of gear and tokens for the legendary quest thing, it is the only real way of catching up gearwise.

The reason I hate LFR is that I feel more or less forced to do it (sure I can opt not to, but I don't want to hold my raid group back either), the slacky attitude of atleast 50% of the people in the group and the fact that you can ignore most boss mechanics and when something is proving a bit difficult and you wipe, half the people leave instantly.

A good example was I think, when we were doing Lei-Shen and this druid joins. He shouts :"Omg losers, already 4 stacks of determination!" and quits. Surely not having someone like that isn't a loss at all. But wiping 4 times on a bossfight most people haven't done before isn't particularly much!

The other thing that happens is everytime that something is proving challenging, half the people are screaming for nerfs.

Lastly, I think it spoils the raid itself. By seeing it in a cheapend, sloppy version before you actually do it (my guild doesn't have super high amounts of progression atm), it ruins the feeling of a new place and the awesomeness of finding stuff out for yourself.

[KillstrikeEL]

Lastly, I think it spoils the raid itself. By seeing it in a cheapend, sloppy version before you actually do it (my guild doesn't have super high amounts of progression atm), it ruins the feeling of a new place and the awesomeness of finding stuff out for yourself.

I could see that being a bit depressing in your situation. That's a shame.

[AVPaul]

Only hardcores hate LFR. They're saying, that they would never bring unexperienced players into their raid, kicking newbies, saying, that they should get experience somewhere else, setting overestimated requirments to gear and skill, raging, when developers trying to make content easier to lower requirments, but...at the same time they're bitching about recruiting problems, about lack of player's inflow into raids, about other players not waniting to raid. And of course they're accusing anyone else, except themselves: developers for making casual content, casuals for not wanting to improve, etc. But hey. They'll never admit, that all this problems is caused by their elitism. They were trying to keep unexpirienced players away from raids, leaving them with nothing to do, except LFD and leveling alts. At some point this forced developers to make separated content for casuals and newbies. So now hardcores have 2 (!!!) levels of their own separated content and nobody is trying to touch it. But are they happy now? No! Because nobody wants to play with them now. And this is deadlock. Now hardcores want new players to come into raids, but other players don't want to do it, as now they have planty of alternative ways to get fun ingame without suffering problems, connected with organising raids. And of course hardcores are raging about this alternative casual content now and want it to be removed from game. But it's too late now. They should deal with it.

[Lilija]

Only hardcores hate LFR. They're saying, that they would never bring unexperienced players into their raid, kicking newbies, saying, that they should get experience somewhere else, setting overestimated requirments to gear and skill, raging, when developers trying to make content easier to lower requirments, but...at the same time they're bitching about recruiting problems, about lack of player's inflow into raids, about other players not waniting to raid. And of course they're accusing anyone else, except themselves: developers for making casual content, casuals for not wanting to improve, etc. But hey. They'll never admit, that all this problems is caused by their elitism. They were trying to keep unexpirienced players away from raids, leaving them with nothing to do, except LFD and leveling alts. At some point this forced developers to make separated content for casuals and newbies. So now hardcores have 2 (!!!) levels of their own separated content and nobody is trying to touch it. But are they happy now? No! Because nobody wants to play with them now. And this is deadlock. Now hardcores want new players to come into raids, but other players don't want to do it, as now they have planty of alternative ways to get fun ingame without suffering problems, connected with organising raids. And of course hardcores are raging about this alternative casual content now and want it to be removed from game. But it's too late now. They should deal with it.

This not how hardcores act. It's how wannabe hardcores act.

[Maoli]

LFR is great but Blizzard really needs to make more strides to prevent grieving. I'm so sick of people pulling a boss and bailing on the run. It's been pretty bad for Lei Shen. On two toons i've been part of 5 'pull/quit' wipes on each of them. People seem to think if they pull and we wipe we'll get a quicker buff (which doesn't work). We need easy/better means to punish people that do shit like that.

[AVPaul]

LFR is great but Blizzard really needs to make more strides to prevent grieving. I'm so sick of people pulling a boss and bailing on the run. It's been pretty bad for Lei Shen. On two toons i've been part of 5 'pull/quit' wipes on each of them. People seem to think if they pull and we wipe we'll get a quicker buff (which doesn't work). We need easy/better means to punish people that do shit like that.

I agree. There some important LFR development rules, that devs sometimes brake.
1) There should not be oneshoot mechanics. Player's mistakes should be punished, by extra work for healers for example, but not by instant death.
2) There should not be ability for one or few players to troll all other players, by intentionally wiping them. This is about being able to pull boss while cleaning trash or pulling trash while killing boss. I can tell same about tentacle mechanics on DW spine. Just because the risk of at least one griefier existance in raid in extremely high.

May be there are some other rules. But the main problem, is that devs are designing encounters for normal/hard modes in first place, so they don't want to make too much adjustment into fights, while adopting them for LFR - that's the main cause of the problem. For example, they they don't want to completely remove trash, that is ok in normal/HM, but causes griefing in LFR.

[Deleted]

I think one of the reasons some people seem to "hate" LFR is the fact that after one wipe it usually becomes a flamefest. It may "just" be LFR but many of the mechanics are there and therefore you need to pay attention. So not every boss should go down in one try.

I personally like LFR. It is good to learn for normal modes. Some abilities are a joke in LFR compared to normal mode but I think thats normal...Tortos Breath for example (135k dmg over 4.5 seconds in LFR vs. 1.35m DMG over 4.5 seconds in normal mode)

[Calaba]

I agree. There some important LFR development rules, that devs sometimes brake.
1) There should not be oneshoot mechanics. Player's mistakes should be punished, by extra work for healers for example, but not by instant death.
2) There should not be ability for one or few players to troll all other players, by intentionally wiping them. This is about being able to pull boss while cleaning trash or pulling trash while killing boss. I can tell same about tentacle mechanics on DW spine. Just because the risk of at least one griefier existance in raid in extremely high.

May be there are some other rules. But the main problem, is that devs are designing encounters for normal/hard modes in first place, so they don't want to make too much adjustment into fights, while adopting them for LFR - that's the main cause of the problem. For example, they they don't want to completely remove trash, that is ok in normal/HM, but causes griefing in LFR.

Got to agree with this. Sooo thankful I no longer need to do LFR on my main because of this.

Other issues include stuff like people queuing as healer for shorter queue times and then refusing to heal - sure you can boot them after a while, but then you get to wait 10 minutes for a new healer. There needs to be a better way to punish this sort of behaviour.

Idiots over-pulling trash before and after Tortos i've seen happen several times now - they literally pull all the trash at once then wonder why the tanks die. (this isn't accidentally pulling a patrol, but intentionally pulling) The layout on this trash is fine for normal and heroic - but for LFR provides too much oportunity for griefing. It needs heavy nerfing / half of it removed for LFR before i'll bother going back there.

[Klingers]

What's the hate? Failbags notwithstanding, I love LFR. I get to raid on my own schedule when and if I want to. I get to see the storylines. I get to at least experience the boss mechanics in a form.

I did actually used to raid on and off back even in the dark, early days of vanilla. Now raiding with strangers means content tuned to raiding with strangers. In early 2005, raiding with strangers meant 90 minutes of wiping on the first Corehound pack in Molten Core. I consider this an improvement.

---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 11:41 AM ----------

Simply not true. While LFR may not force every participant to become better raiders, it can and does allow people to improve their raiding skills.

Just about every LFR has a bunch of people who just stand around ignoring mechanics and mindlessly doing whatever it is they do, and they get away with it because LFR isn't that punishing, at least provided some people do the right thing. However the mechanics are still there, and people (like me) who try to do the fight correctly will definitely benefit when it comes to "real" raiding.

This. Even the cream of the special education bus crop will eventually learn to get out of the damn Elegon pit. Eventually.

[AVPaul]

Got to agree with this. Sooo thankful I no longer need to do LFR on my main because of this.

Other issues include stuff like people queuing as healer for shorter queue times and then refusing to heal - sure you can boot them after a while, but then you get to wait 10 minutes for a new healer. There needs to be a better way to punish this sort of behaviour.

I suggested it many times already. Now we have only avg ilvl(including bags) limitation to enter LFR. But as you may know, gear has spec indication now. That's may allow devs to improve queue system. So in order to queue with some role player should match 2 requirments, not only one: 1) Player should be in proper spec for choosen role. 2) Player should have proper gear for that spec equiped with specified ilvl (may be lower, cuz it's not avg and bags should not be included). And to avoid abusing of spec and gear changing, player should be kicked automatically after some period of time (30 sec for example, sometimes we need to check offspec gear), if he no longer meets this requirments.

There are not much addon makers among the LFR players, but it will be really usefull to make 2 addons specially for LFR raiding: addon, that scans entrie raid roles, specs and gear (something like GridStatusRole, which I'm using for this purpose now) and announces abusers. It will be very usefull, cuz in most cases abusers uses the fact, that it's too hard to track entrie raid's specs and gear, until something goes wrong.

And the second addon - addon that announces, who pulls bosses, trash, dpsing something, that he should not. Griefers are often use the fact, that it's really hard to determine, who has pulled boss/trash, who are dpsing wrong targets, if they're hiding among other players. And clean announces will prevent them from doing it.

LFR raiding is growing very fast, but there are not much tools to make it more enjoyable. Developers are refusing to punish griefers or prevent them from griefing somehow. We should take control into our own hands. Hardcores developed Recount, DBM and many other mandatory addons in order to make raidng more comfortable. If every player will have antigriefer addon installed, then griefers will be detected and kicked very fast. And if this addon will became mandatory at some point, devs may decide to take some actions against griefers too.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

These are the reasons I hate LFR. I try and keep an open mind and take lead after a wipe. But I was trying to explain Lei Shen and set groups up after a couple of Lei Shen wipes, and someone said "don't kick him, he's trying to help us." The kick didn't pass, but seriously, I'm trying to help. And I don't see how someone's suggestion of "let's stack Determination to 10" would help you get through a transition where no one pays any attention to bouncing bolt and you get 10+ adds running around.

I have no problem and have even suffered series of wipes trying to teach new tanks how to do a fight (really, so much of the responsibility falls on them it's ridiculous). But what gets me are the people who don't even want to try. The ones who afk and /follow. I don't actually even care about no gems/enchants or relatively low DPS, as long as you're showing effort. I understand, people don't have time or want to put in the effort required of a Normal/Heroic guild. But I've had so many people give me crap for just asking them to do it right. They act all offended when you ask them to put in some effort or *gasp* pay attention! I'm not asking people to play it like Normal. I'm not asking for 90k DPS, zero damage taken from fire, and perfect interrupts. I just want people to try a little bit. And to not do it wrong on purpose.

Like if we AoE the little golems on Dark Animus and wipe from so many rampant Larges, don't be a jerk and refuse to single target. Nobody cares about your DPS on Dark Animus LFR and what good is all that AoE meter whoring if we wipe anyways?

I agree man I agree. I recently did a fresh OS install, and was downloading all of my addons again. I used curse client, and the MOST DOWNLOADED ADDON WAS RECOUNT. There were even a couple of other damage meters in the top 100.... Seriously? And it was ahead by A LOT of downloads. There are more people using recount by far than something like DBM or bigwigs!!!

Whats worse, is when I try getting the afkers kicked sometimes the afkers with 1000 DPS come back and try to get me kicked for being mean... uhh okay. I can't understand for the life of me why people get offended when being explained things. To be honest, if more trolls/afks/bads got kicked and had to wait 20-60 minutes again, they might fix their behavior a little. Its up to us, the COMMUNITY to police these kinds of people.

[Arkamedis]

The loot system sucks dick by the bag-full. I shouldnt have to lose 20 rolls + 10 bonus rolls before i get a goddamned item.

[Volbian]

During Cataclysm I was unable to raid because of my job. I worked 45-50 hours a week, which wasn't really a problem, but the problem was I never knew when I was going to work. I had a different schedule every week, some days, some evenings. Good luck joining a raiding guild with that kind of schedule. This was the only expansion that I didn't raid cutting edge content.

Would you say that I'm too bad to get into a raiding guild and lazy, but only from 2010-2012? Your argument fails. The problem isn't time commitment. Anyone can have the time for raiding, it's the scheduling that is impossible for some people.

First off, this isnt Cata.
Secondly, You do not make up the 9million subs of WoW.

While you situation is understandable, but that doesnt speak for everyone. My arguement doesnt fail in the slightest. Just because it does pertain to you, it doesnt make it less truthful. I guarantee if Blizzard didnt add the Retardation buff, most "casuals" would not even run LFR, because it would be time consuming and more encouraging to actually learn the fight and mechanics, to get through it.

Looking at the other side of things, why do you need gear in the first place, if your RL schedule doesnt permit you to raid? This is another thing i dont understand why people need gear, when they can simply get it from crafting or rep.

[Arbs]

I don't hate LFR, but I do wish it wasn't just a giant troll fest & People would actually try to listen to the people explaining the fight mechanics.

[HeedmySpeed]

Mask it any way you want but the truth of the matter is LFR was made for bad players.

"But I don't have time!" I feel bad for you son but you're still a bad player. We all start as bad players. No shame in being a bad player unless you're bad because you're just a flat out moron.

For me, I liked having a bigger reason to learn my class and mechanics. To get better. One of those reasons was seeing the instance. Exploring. Seeing the next wing after spending a raid night on one boss.

Now I don't HAVE to earn it which was FUN to me. I can simply hit a queue button and I can see it all. And quite frankly, I am less impressed with the design and graphics when it's handed to me like that.

I took a break but I'll be back for PVP because now I have a reason to grief players. The matter of fact is there are many players who can't live without LFR so chances are I'll run into them.

[RoKPaNda]

Mask it any way you want but the truth of the matter is LFR was made for bad players.

"But I don't have time!" I feel bad for you son but you're still a bad player. We all start as bad players. No shame in being a bad player unless you're bad because you're just a flat out moron.

For me, I liked having a bigger reason to learn my class and mechanics. To get better. One of those reasons was seeing the instance. Exploring. Seeing the next wing after spending a raid night on one boss.

Now I don't HAVE to earn it which was FUN to me. I can simply hit a queue button and I can see it all. And quite frankly, I am less impressed with the design and graphics when it's handed to me like that.

I took a break but I'll be back for PVP because now I have a reason to grief players. The matter of fact is there are many players who can't live without LFR so chances are I'll run into them.

How's the view from up there on that high horse of yours? Just because someone doesn't have time to raid now it doesn't mean they're a bad player. This game is not even remotely difficult, you can spend 5 minutes reading about your class and another 5 minutes setting up your hotbars and off you go, it's not complex at all, even for healers.

[RickJamesLich]

I think the thing with LFR is, it pretty much creates bad raiders that attempt to transition into normal modes. It teaches you things like standing in the bad stuff is ok, not interrupting stuff is ok, tunneling a boss while his adds attack healers is ok..... that kinda stuff, and then when they go into normal modes it's pretty much a 180 from what they are used to.... you actually have to learn mechanics and such.

I did Lei Shen the other day, everyone was wiping and I told them to either take 10 minutes to watch a video or read the dungeon journal so we don't have to spend a few hours wiping, instead these guys decided to spend a few hours wiping until enough people left that the group finally got filled up with enough people that knew the fight that could carry the guys that still didn't want to read up on the mechanics.

LFR is great for people that have very little time to raid though, or those that just want to see the boss, but don't expect to learn much from it. I do think they should change the quality of the gear though to blue, as it's pretty much set up that you beat the boss.

[Whiskra]

How's the view from up there on that high horse of yours? Just because someone doesn't have time to raid now it doesn't mean they're a bad player. This game is not even remotely difficult, you can spend 5 minutes reading about your class and another 5 minutes setting up your hotbars and off you go, it's not complex at all, even for healers.

If it's so easy, it shouldn't take so much time to clear normal and start working away at heroics.