5.2 Agility Trinkets

[Zeherah]

Anyone have the updated rune RPPM value? Cant seem to find a reference to the updated value.

The updated value for what? If you're talking about Rune, they were just fixing an existing bug, they didn't actually change the mechanics of the proc. The proc was just not matching the described mechanics for awhile.

[Meleti]

How much attention should I pay to how FD values the trinkets?

Common wisdom is that HC Bad Juju > HC Talisman, but I'm not sure by how much. FD is saying it's about 5k DPS for my hunter (528 ilvl, 4pc t15) but I don't really know if I should agree with that, especially given how FD tends to have some trouble with Haste valuation.

Running some SimC right now but interested in hearing from anyone who has experience using both (especially both Heroic trinkets).

[Deleted]

I'm using HC Renataki and HC thunderforged Bad Juju and there is no way that talisman is better because it would destroy our opener(close to 0 dps gain from the procc lol). Don't trust FD with trinkets!
Just use Simcraft to compare trinkets.

[Deleted]

quick question,dropped today rune of re-origination 522,since i had never drop renataki and bad juju,do you think is better re-origination or lei shi trinket 496 terror in the mists?cant find any information,but im a bit unlucky with other trinkets,so the 1st time that i drop a good trinket,is it so bad even after fix that i need to sell it?^^'the other trinket equipped is shado-pan assault

[yakuz]

weird procs from Bad Juju for me... last night sometimes i had Renataki ~24-39%, and Juju about 14-26%... quite disappointed.

[Conjor]

The updated value for what? If you're talking about Rune, they were just fixing an existing bug, they didn't actually change the mechanics of the proc. The proc was just not matching the described mechanics for awhile.

I see... Ty ^^

[Sylvari]

I dropped reg Bad JuJu and went with the VP trinket. It was very inconsistent and the stat difference is negligible. I have 519 ilvl, tried Haste>Crit still didn't make a difference. Unless I'm missing something.

[Beebeey]

I saw that Rune of Re-Origination had a hotfix: Has anyone checked it out since?

[Zeherah]

I'm using HC Renataki and HC thunderforged Bad Juju and there is no way that talisman is better because it would destroy our opener(close to 0 dps gain from the procc lol). Don't trust FD with trinkets!
Just use Simcraft to compare trinkets.

I'm a little confused, what do you mean by destroying the opener and 0 dps gain from the proc? Renataki and Bad Juju are better, but your reasoning for why makes no sense to me.

With regards to trinket support on my site, it's a lot better than it was but it'll never be perfect since the trinkets are really hard to model accurately without a simulator. At this point there's no gaping holes in the implementation though that I'm aware of so they shouldn't be super far off. Simulationcraft will do a better job with trinket modeling for sure.

[Meleti]

I'm guessing Fatall is one of those Hunters that doesn't realize that Haste is a stat that increases your DPS.

Anyhow, SimC concurs with there being about a 4-5k DPS gain between Talisman and Bad Juju. Guess I'll keep bidding for that trinket.

[Dracodraco]

I'm a little confused, what do you mean by destroying the opener and 0 dps gain from the proc? Renataki and Bad Juju are better, but your reasoning for why makes no sense to me.

With regards to trinket support on my site, it's a lot better than it was but it'll never be perfect since the trinkets are really hard to model accurately without a simulator. At this point there's no gaping holes in the implementation though that I'm aware of so they shouldn't be super far off. Simulationcraft will do a better job with trinket modeling for sure.

Essentially that most bosses involve bloodlust+rapid fire on the pull (although to be fair we've had a significant amount this tier that forces BL later on due to fight mechanics), lowering CS cast time to sub-1 second. At that point only your auto shots and passive regen benefits from Primordius trinket, while everything benefits from an agility proc.

[Deleted]

I'm a little confused, what do you mean by destroying the opener and 0 dps gain from the proc? Renataki and Bad Juju are better, but your reasoning for why makes no sense to me.

With regards to trinket support on my site, it's a lot better than it was but it'll never be perfect since the trinkets are really hard to model accurately without a simulator. At this point there's no gaping holes in the implementation though that I'm aware of so they shouldn't be super far off. Simulationcraft will do a better job with trinket modeling for sure.

I'm not trying to bash your site. I love FD and use it alot to compare Gear etc. but some parts just can't be done with formulation.

I'm guessing Fatall is one of those Hunters that doesn't realize that Haste is a stat that increases your DPS.

Anyhow, SimC concurs with there being about a 4-5k DPS gain between Talisman and Bad Juju. Guess I'll keep bidding for that trinket.

I'm one of those few Hunters that gem Haste>crit so i'm very aware that we gain dps from haste but my point was like Draco already said that there is not much benefit at the pull because we almost use RF,Berserking or BL every time.

[Meleti]

I came off as a bit harsh; yes Haste is going to be less useful during the opener. Still not convinced on it being a "near 0 DPS gain" however. Simming only 10k iterations as BM and SV on a 100 second fight (so about 31% rapid fire uptime and 41% bloodlust uptime) the stat weights look something like this:

SV:



BM:



This is because Haste provides a bit more than Cobra Shot reductions (the benefits Draco mentioned, for both you and your pet).

[Deleted]

Yes haste is always an dps gain even when it's minor at the first 30 seconds off the fight.
Besides, the whole point of the conversation was to compare Talisman and Bad Juju and there is no way that Talisman is better then Juju or Renataki.

[Meleti]

Yes haste is always an dps gain even when it's minor at the first 30 seconds off the fight.
Besides, the whole point of the conversation was to compare Talisman and Bad Juju and there is no way that Talisman is better then Juju or Renataki.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was more wondering how much worse it is (the answer appears to be around 5k, if our theory tools are worth anything).

[Zeherah]

I just get a little tired of people talking as if cobra shot is the only thing you use haste for. Even if your cobra shot cast speed is down to the GCD, you still benefit from:
- More autoshots
- More regen which converts to more arcane shots
- More pet autoattacks
- More pet regen which converts to either more frequent basic attacks or wild hunt attacks
- More regen for your stampede, which again may convert to more basic attacks or wild hunt attacks
- More RPPM procs

Also keep in mind that haste is multiplicative, so you do get more value from the stacking of it with the exception of the GCD capping on cobra shot (that being said, the haste rating from the trinket is additive to your other haste rating but multiplicative with other haste buffs so it's slightly more complex than that).

I'm not saying haste is as valuable when you're GCD capped as it is when you're not, but I wouldn't call it near 0 dps gain. I'm also still unclear on what "destroying our opener" means. How would having more haste harm us exactly?

[Hayro1]

Yeah, I agree with that. I was more wondering how much worse it is (the answer appears to be around 5k, if our theory tools are worth anything).

You should read "way over hit" on the Hunter forums, I'm sure you'll have a good laugh. I have no idea why I was responding to the troll posts, looks like I'm going back to not posting on there anymore! You'll see the Hunter I'm talking about.

[Renley]

I've been reading the thread on and off, more or less read that Rune of Reorigination is...less than appealing. However, I'm currently using un-upgraded Bottle of Infinite Stars from LFR and just got the LFR Rune. Is it worth using? I ran it on FD, says 1800 DPS bump, but fairly sure I read that FD doesnt handle Rune correctly. Any pointers?

[Meleti]

My druid friend is saying that his Rune (normal) isn't even proccing at all any more. Not sure if this would apply to LFR too but I would be hesitant to use it.

[Renley]

My druid friend is saying that his Rune (normal) isn't even proccing at all any more. Not sure if this would apply to LFR too but I would be hesitant to use it.

Maybe RNG is RNG, but on a 5 minute test on the dummy, I got one proc. :S Quite underwhelming. I am quite hesitant to switch to it.