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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindstripper View Post
    Exactly. I mean we could just glass the whole fucking area and be done with it.
    I'm up for that if we can group up people like you into the same area. Would probably be enough to push the innocent civilian population outside the blast range.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    It's mostly because it almoust entirely removes the human aspect of it, after which it's easier to start to see enemies more as an objects on screen than just human beings.
    Yeah, it basically takes the reality out of war for the one pulling the trigger. It becomes almost like a video game.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    That tends to be how the chain of command works for any sort of military operation bro.
    And do you agree with that? Providing faulty intelligence which result in civilian deaths SHOULD have repercussions.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefthandpath View Post
    wait, are you trying to tell me that war is MESSY???????

    im wondering where the OPs outrage was when the taliban were killing 12 children daily for "talking back to their parents".

    im guessing we find the OP has posted ZERO posts about that.
    Pretty much. Complains and whines that that people died in a war by one side yet if you were to point out the atrocities the Taliban commit: "Oh, but that's ok."

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Indeed we are. *Highfive*
    Because I mean shit, if we looked at Operation Neptune's Spear (OBL raid), the civilian casualty rate was 20%.

  6. #86
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    From your link:

    The civilian casualty rate for U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan is notoriously difficult to quantify. The U.S. itself puts the number of civilians killed from drone strikes in the last two years at no more than 20 to 30, a total that is far too low according to a spokesman for the NGO CIVIC.[22]
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/1...&utm_term=news
    May want to come up with a more reliable source; the one provided by Wikipedia is sorely lacking in providing anything assertive. There's nothing like going by the word of a small, biased group that chose a small and highly selective sample size to pull from.

    "Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, a U.S.-based human rights group, said in a report this week that unnamed U.S. officials had put civilian deaths from drone strikes at 20 to 30 since the beginning of last year. Yet CIVIC's own small sample of nine strikes uncovered 30 civilian deaths, including at least 14 women and children."

    At the other extreme, Daniel L. Byman of the Brookings Institution suggests that drone strikes may kill "10 or so civilians" for every militant killed, which would represent a civilian to combatant casualty ratio of 10:1.
    http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...killings-byman
    Tagged at the very top of the page as an opinion article. Even if it was by an educated professor, it is essentially a blogged rant and nothin more.

    Also, "At the other extreme".. extremes are never the best to go off of.

    And finally, This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Please help to ensure that disputed statements are reliably sourced. See the relevant discussion on the talk page. (July 2011).
    Going to the talk page, and...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...casualty_ratio
    "The result was keep - not a strong consensus, but I see one growing towards that."

    (the contention for the article was based on its connection to how civilian casualty ratios are done)
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2013-04-24 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    Pretty much. Complains and whines that that people died in a war by one side yet if you were to point out the atrocities the Taliban commit: "Oh, but that's ok."
    Never said anything like what the both of you suggested. I have a history of condemning Al-Qaeda, Taliban and others in these forums but it doesn't mean that I am okay with this amount of "collateral damage."

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindstripper View Post
    Exactly. I mean we could just glass the whole fucking area and be done with it.
    Wouldn't work at all, look at Vietnam for reference.

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    but it doesn't mean that I am okay with this amount of "collateral damage."
    Are you under the impression that there are people on this forum that believe it's "okay" when children die in drone strikes?

    Justifying their deaths doesn't excuse them, and it certainly doesn't mean we are "okay" with them.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  10. #90
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    Pretty much. Complains and whines that that people died in a war by one side yet if you were to point out the atrocities the Taliban commit: "Oh, but that's ok."
    Problem is when the attacks made as response to 9/11 make the 3000 killed dwarfed by comparison but hey, they aren't americans so why would you care?
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Are you under the impression that there are people on this forum that believe it's "okay" when children die in drone strikes?

    Justifying their deaths doesn't excuse them, and it certainly doesn't mean we are "okay" with them.
    I am sure that the majority doesn't believe that it's "okay" when these children die but some idiots do (and there is one of them in this thread).

  12. #92
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    OP I like how you bring up the children casuality but not any number on how many other civilians were killed. Why are children so more important than anyone else? Everyone is someones son or daughter shouldn't matter if they are young or not.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    Americant... They hunger for blood too much! End the war already jesus.
    Hi, how is the third grade going for you? ISAF has leadership and troops from several different countries.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    OP I like how you bring up the children casuality but not any number on how many other civilians were killed. Why are children so more important than anyone else? Everyone is someones son or daughter shouldn't matter if they are young or not.
    Because they are embodiment of innocence, the most pure of all humans.

    Also " A fierce battle between U.S.-backed Afghan forces and Taliban militants in a remote corner of eastern Afghanistan left nearly 20 people dead, including 11 Afghan children killed in an airstrike and an American civilian adviser, officials said Sunday." Satisfied?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by manipulation View Post
    The afghans are being supported by the US in a fight against the taliban. What is the #1 tactic of these chickenshits? To hide among the public.

    The only way to keep your hands clean is to not interfere, and then you end up with that country being controlled by folks who like to take 12 year old boys as sex slaves to suck on their knob when they get bored. You end up with the folks there living in fear of their lives every day and still end up with dead kids.

    Then everyone asks why the US isn't going to help.

    There is no clean way to win war anymore, ESPECIALLY when the enemy hides among everyone else. War is just ugly, plain and simple. Anyone who wants to go to war as anything but a last resort is a goddamn fool and this kind of stuff is why. But we're at war, it's the last resort and 12 dead kids is just awful but unavoidable. A US citizen died in that same strike.
    This guy has basically summed it up, it's so obvious, NOONE WANTS this to happen, but what is the alternative? If I could stutter in writing I would be, it's just inevitable, i'm not even going to begin to say whether it's justified, it's a massive shame.

    But I DO also agree with an earlier post that said that this is how terrorists breed, I imagine a few of them are only "signing up" because their family (civilians) were caught in a crossfire, again, not that that's justified but i'd be surely pissed too.

  16. #96
    the problem is a "damned if we do damned if we dont" kind of thing. ideally, these countries would be vigilant on anti terrorism to the point where we wouldnt feel the need to engage in it. but right now it's either fight them there or fight them here. if there are going to be fatalities any nation or govt would prefer they were somebody else's instead of their own.

    i respect you n7, and i would hope you have enough respect for me to believe that im not in the "fuck 'em" crowd, i hate that this happens. but i cant see any other entity behaving differently under the same circumstances
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    Same as the old derp.

  17. #97
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    The NATO could have chosen a better place to conduct the operation and not his fucking house.

    How were they suppose to know he had kids in there? HE WAS SHOOTING AT THEM.

  18. #98
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    A question for you folks, what is more important to you people, killing this Al-Qaeda leader ASAP or ensuring that no civilians die?

    If it was the later, then how can you accept an attack on the house when the NATO could have waited few hours and attacked him when he was out of the house?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 07:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    How were they suppose to know he had kids in there? HE WAS SHOOTING AT THEM.
    Because they went there, also by now I'd assume that the NATO know that Al-Qaeda militants breed a lot and most of the time children would be involved if it was an attack at his residence.

  19. #99
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    A question for you folks, what is more important to you people, killing this Al-Qaeda leader ASAP or ensuring that no civilians die?

    If it was the later, then how can you accept an attack on the house when the NATO could have waited few hours and attacked him when he was out of the house?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 07:21 PM ----------


    Because they went there, also by now I'd assume that the NATO know that Al-Qaeda militants breed a lot and most of the time children would be involved if it was an attack at his residence.
    Part 1

    A little of both. There are going to be civilians that are going to die in a war. As long as we aren't just killing them for the hell of it i'm ok with that.



    Part 2
    So now they all have a free get out of jail card. All they need to do is keep little kids around them and we can never touch them.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    the problem is a "damned if we do damned if we dont" kind of thing. ideally, these countries would be vigilant on anti terrorism to the point where we wouldnt feel the need to engage in it. but right now it's either fight them there or fight them here. if there are going to be fatalities any nation or govt would prefer they were somebody else's instead of their own.

    i respect you n7, and i would hope you have enough respect for me to believe that im not in the "fuck 'em" crowd, i hate that this happens. but i cant see any other entity behaving differently under the same circumstances
    I am not saying that they shouldn't engage, I am saying that they should have been more tactful about it. A house is not an ideal place to initiate an operation, let alone an air strike, they could've waited until he moved out of the house. Being the NATO, I'd assume that they would have some kind of surveillance.

    Also, don't think that my anger and sadness towards these kinds of deaths would result in me hating you or other people. I try to act respectfully most of the time and I mutually respect to you smelltheglove (funny name by the way).

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