Things I would Personally Bring Back To WoW

[Vaalyn]

OP is entitled to his opinion, and although I don't agree with the things he identifies, what I do see is an desire to have a return to a time where you were rewarded for the effort you put into the game.
I see a lot of troll posts ridiculing the OP, but the truth is that the game as gotten too easy. Nothing you do matters anymore in game. Everyone is rewarded with exactly the same items, achievements, whatever, and the things that set a player apart from others is gone.
I don't think WoW could ever return to a vanilla-like state with excessive grinds and gating, but I do think Blizzard should re-instate some of the difficultly which would allow those over-achievers to get something more out of the game.
Its not bad to want more and be willing to work for it and the community shouldn't feel threatened because someone has more. Its the way of the world, all things are not equal.

[Deleted]

Rose tinted nostalgia goggles at their finest.

Here's some truth you Vanilla/TBC glory days fan boys don't like to hear: Vanilla and TBC weren't difficult. They were grind fests: for rep, for mats, for gold, for everything. The entry level tier content we have now would've wrecked guilds back in those days. Barring cases like Illidan, we would steamroll the hardest content that TBC and Vanilla had to offer.

You are delusional. Cataclysm tried to bring back heroic TBC style dungeons back. And they were actually easier then TBC ones. And your average player couldn't handle them so they took big nerf.

[Ramz]

I'd bring class related quests, a little improved, so they can have cut scenes like the monk Training in Valley of Four winds

And I'd bring back separate lockdown doe 10 and 25 man raids. I much more liked that system in WotLK and made a sense for me, 25-man on HC were the most hardest to do, but they were also the most rewarding. Maybe i am also saying that becuase shamans are best on 25mans as healers

[Thage]

OP is entitled to his opinion, and although I don't agree with the things he identifies, what I do see is an desire to have a return to a time where you were rewarded for the effort you put into the game.

Because Heroic raiding doesn't reward the best gear and unique titles/mounts.

I see a lot of troll posts ridiculing the OP, but the truth is that the game as gotten too easy. Nothing you do matters anymore in game. Everyone is rewarded with exactly the same items, achievements, whatever, and the things that set a player apart from others is gone.

If that's true, why didn't I get a dragon mount from LFR Dragon Soul, and why haven't I gotten a full set of t15 on my rogue from running scenarios?

I don't think WoW could ever return to a vanilla-like state with excessive grinds and gating, but I do think Blizzard should re-instate some of the difficultly which would allow those over-achievers to get something more out of the game.

Someone obviously hasn't paid attention to Heroic raiding and Challenge Mode 5-mans.

Its not bad to want more and be willing to work for it and the community shouldn't feel threatened because someone has more. Its the way of the world, all things are not equal.

Heroic raiding, Tyrannical Glad, Challenge Mode. Next patch, Heroic Scenarios. There you go, go have fun playing the hard content catered toward your demographic.

[Rivellana]

I'm just going to comment on each section and my own opinions on it.

Truly Heroic Heroics
This one I agree with to some extent. I found BC and WotLK heroics fun and entertaining...when Cata rolled around I think they made them too difficult at first for the gear level that people were starting out with, but when they lightened up on that when MoP came out and made them very easy again even with starter gear, heroics dungeons lost all fun for me. The only reason I ever run them now is if I'm short on valor and want to cap. Even then, I'd almost rather do a scenario because LFD means I'll probably be stuck with a bad tank, bad dps, people who cause wipes, and people who leave after one wipe as if they never had an ounce of patience. Sure, sitting around cities trying to form a group up for heroics back in the day was much slower than just queueing up for one, but at least you knew who you were going with and they were more likely to stick around if things went wrong.

Flying Would Be Worth It
This one I do not agree with.

I've been playing since late Vanilla and I can remember when you desperately wanted to get new characters to level 30 for travel forms (if you were lucky enough to be a druid or shaman), or level 40 for your slow ground mount, and especially level 60 for your fast ground mount. I remember how nice it was to be a druid and be able to fly around BC areas at 58 when everyone else had to wait until 60. I remember the epic flight quest line for druids. I remember trying to save up gold for faster flight (and when initial flight speed was very, very slow).

I do not want to give up the convenience that Blizzard has given us over the years by dropping the levels required for these things for alts.

Looking For Raid
I don't agree with this one either.

The game used to be much less intensive on the computer system than it is now. With an old computer in WotLK, I could raid 25 man HMs with little to no issue. With a newer computer than that one now, I cannot raid even simple LFR without having extensive lag spikes and FPS rates around 3-10 generally. Granted, I can still do pretty well even with low FPS, but I don't want to be punished with less chances of loot for getting out of that puddle on the ground a few seconds late because I can't see it immediately or my computer doesn't want to respond as quickly to me telling it to move my character as someone else's. I cannot afford to buy a new computer right now, does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to play the game or experience the content? Perhaps if they had a 10 man version of LFR (my system ran fine in 10 man normal mode guild runs), it would be easier on people who do not have top end computer systems...but that's not likely to ever happen.

It's already a well known fact that LFR groups are unable to function with the same communication that a normal/heroic mode group does. Thus the difficulty nerfs and stacking buffs on wipes being added. If you made LFR difficulty into normal mode difficulty, there would never be a reason for anyone to do it unless the gear drops in LFR were the same ilevel as normal mode drops. There's also no reason to make you get exalted with all the factions to queue. Blizzard already requires specific ilevels, and people don't want to grind factions on their mains and their alts.

I don't raid normal modes anymore, I just don't have the time to schedule it in. I actually enjoy LFR because I can see the content and can do it on my own time when I have time available.

The Removal Of Justice/Valor Points
I don't think this is all that much different than points, except that you're essentially adding more RNG (drop rate of the various crafting materials) where there isn't any right now (you get your points when you finish). Why add more RNG to a game that already has tons of it?

Guild Hopping
For max level characters, I can agree with this being an issue but for leveling guilds, I wouldn't want the leveling perks taken away. They could do something like go the Tera route and make you wait a certain length of time after leaving one guild before you can join another, instead. Players would have to think more carefully about joining and leaving.

Player Housing
I won't comment on this because housing does not and never has appealed to me in any way. I'm indifferent.

[Vervacious]

WoW has become too formulaic, and the leveling process is just too easy. Its formulaic because its entirely profits-driven, and meant to hook the casual player. I wish they'd take some risks and mix it up a bit. But if they don't, that's ok, because there are some indy publishers who do take risks, and I enjoy trying new MMOs, even if they flop a few months later. Just to try something different.

[Doombringer]

Bad ideas! Bad!

While I can agree with the sentiment of making perks like Flying Mounts more meaningful... that "gather 50 of this, now 50 of that, now visit every raid... 5 times..." sort of game design isn't going to fly these days. People want to play a game, not be married to it.

You also have to remember, WoW is as much a game for us to enjoy as it is a product to make Blizzard money. They're not going to smack their playerbase in the face with your raid rules or other punishments -- players who get frustrated by your suggested, draconian methods will simply take their business elsewhere.

[SherbertLand]

It sounds like you just want to be special again.

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 01:26 PM ----------

We have more grinding in this expansion than we've had in the last two combined.

It's not patch 5.0 or 5.1 anymore, get with the times.

[RabidHexley]

The only one I'm remotely on board with is the Heroics. You can barely call mop Heroics dungeons anymore.

[abecedary]

BC was one of my favorite expansions in WoW, but mostly because of the people I played with, not many of the grinds assosicated with it. Maybe WoW is going more the way of the casuals, but I dont think its such a bad thing. It sure makes it more fun to play on alts.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Elitism grindfest. Some of us have jobs you know. And this is coming from a hardcore raider from BC and Wrath. This game would empty out like the bar after last call.

Or as Zoidberg would say: "Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad." ZOIDBERG NUMBER 1!

A) Calling someone an elitist because the way they want a game differs from yours? Okay, you're just a "casual" wittle baby in that case.

B) I raided just fine from Vanilla - Wrath WITH a:Girlfriend, Job, High School/College classes, Wrestling Team, Many Engineering extracurriculars.....Imagine that?

C) Also imagine where many of these ideas came from; BC, which did better than Cata and MoP..

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 07:10 PM ----------

@OP

You basically want the game restored to its former glory; a time long ago when the game was built for adoring and loyal fans instead of people who have never had any interest in the game. You miss the WoW that encouraged effort, determination, teamwork and player progression as these traits made for a much grander online experience. You will never be able to convince 90% of the current player-base and users of this forum that these traits are not synonymous with 'grinding', a sad fact.

I am you, OP. WoW is still an amazing game, but over the years as Blizzard has unarguably shifted their target audience from their loyal and long-term customers to the casual gamer, this fan has been left tasting an ever-stronger sour streak in an otherwise sweet and delicious cake.

You're right, what Blizzard did was called "selling out."

[Achaman]

again with player housing... why is everyone so stuck on that idea

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Effort? This isn't effort. That would be a nightmare for any casual player. The only people who would be able to succeed are those that can devote 8 - 10 hours a day grinding rep and completing very very long quest chains for the most basic of rewards. That's when it stops being fun and becomes a job.

It would kill casuals because it WOULD require more effort than sitting in SW/ORG and pushing a button to teleport all over the world and half afk/ or not really pay attention.

The thing is, you can still play at your own pace, you just wouldn;t be as progressed as someone that put in 8-10 hours, which should be fine and makes perfect sense.

Those "basic" rewards you speak of are only basic because they currently are right at this second. Thats arbitrary. It doesn't actually mean flying mounts are an "inalienable basic mmo players right" ... it just means right now WoW has them. While I played Rift, people would whine about no flying and say the same thing, "It should be a basic part of the game!!!1!" But WHY?

Fun is subjective.

---------- Post added 2013-04-25 at 07:18 PM ----------

Wow, people really have nostalgia glasses on these days. Do you honestly find grinding for hours on end for a rep, to get into raids is fun? what about vanilla when you needed to kill Onyxia enough times to get everyone a fire resist cloak? that wasn't fun. Sure, it was "prestigious" to have epic gear back then, but you can't honestly say with a straight god damn face that it was fun. Grindy and tedious does not equal fun. People really need to stop smoking the nostalgia pipe. And yeah, i played torwards the middle of vanilla and all of bc. I had fun with friends back then, not the gating and grind.

I do like the housing idea though, but i thought blizzard said they weren't going to be doing that any time soon?

You would have ran Ony to get T2 helms anyway, so don't pretend like thats the only reason you were "forced" to raid Onyxia.

[Belize]

Lol, what a surprise, people see that the game would require effort and label it as terrible.

No, subscriptions wouldn't decrease, I guarantee you they would increase actually. Even in BC, there were plenty of people raiding who had lives, I love when people use the "I have a life" excuse as a way to say they shouldn't have to put any effort forth in this game.

Right, because everyone here would WANT to do ridiculous quests for flying, which were never in the game to begin with, therefore not being brought back.

I have a few questions.

1. Why the ridiculous guild hopping thing? I think I might see the idea behind it, but what if you join a guild and you just don't like it there. Great now your penalized for basically nothing.
2. Did you play BC? Because heroics weren't all that difficult in the end. Polymorph 1 mob and clean up the rest. Heck, near the end of TBC we just ran through heroics.
3."Go on an epic quest to replace valor/justice" Oh yah, so you would need to do an Onixia-Attunement like quest chain just to be able to craft yourself gear to progress through the game. Except the Onixia Attunement was terrible ESPECIALLY for Alliance since we had the Blackrock prison breakout. NO. Not ever again please for the love of god.

I think that's all my questions. Why do you want to make WoW so "hardcore"? It just ends up being a grindfest and no one would want to play it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Rose tinted nostalgia goggles at their finest.

Here's some truth you Vanilla/TBC glory days fan boys don't like to hear: Vanilla and TBC weren't difficult. They were grind fests: for rep, for mats, for gold, for everything. The entry level tier content we have now would've wrecked guilds back in those days. Barring cases like Illidan, we would steamroll the hardest content that TBC and Vanilla had to offer.

None of this would make the game hard. None of this is actually difficult. All it does is place ridiculous barriers to the most basic of player conveniences. Flying is not some basic, super special ability that only the most dedicated raiders should get (and hoo boy does this all smack of anti-casual). Its a basic necessity for travel and farming.

Similarly, guild perks are just that: perks. Small conveniences that you get as a part of being in a guild that make life easier. They're not game changing attributes and its ridiculous to put additional barriers to their access just because you think its going to add to guild loyalty. It's not, because guild hopping isn't an issue. It's never been an issue. It's always existed and its a fact of life in an MMO. In fact, this punishes guilds by punishing recruits with gated perks.

Did you even read the post? No one said "Literally make the game just like Vanilla"... saying heroics should be different than they are now .. you know... just a "pull to the boss and AOE down and finish the heroic in 7 minutes"? You can easily 2 man heroics now. I EASILY tank bosses on my Destro Lock when the tank leaves/DCes or whatever.

Point is, you can easily merge some things about Vanilla/Current. Updated and better mechanics from nowadays to the overall design of Vanilla. Your argument is pretty invalid, because again, no one said "make everything about MoP like Vanilla."

[Belize]

I'm just going to comment on each section and my own opinions on it.


Flying Would Be Worth It
This one I do not agree with.

I've been playing since late Vanilla and I can remember when you desperately wanted to get new characters to level 30 for travel forms (if you were lucky enough to be a druid or shaman), or level 40 for your slow ground mount, and especially level 60 for your fast ground mount. I remember how nice it was to be a druid and be able to fly around BC areas at 58 when everyone else had to wait until 60. I remember the epic flight quest line for druids. I remember trying to save up gold for faster flight (and when initial flight speed was very, very slow).

I do not want to give up the convenience that Blizzard has given us over the years by dropping the levels required for these things for alts.

Actually, didn't they make flying mounts at 60 in WotLK along with the ground mount changes (20 - 40)
I'm pretty sure I remember going around ALL the TBC zones on foot until level 70. Then again, most players were pretty poor at the time so maybe I just didn't have the gold for the flying mount...

Edit: Sorry it's a tad off-topic but I found the changelog for riding skills:

Patch 3.2.0 (2009-08-04):
Mount changes.
The cast time for summoning any ground mount is now 1.5 seconds, down from 3 seconds.
Apprentice Riding (Skill 75): Can now be learned at level 20 for 4. Mail will be sent to players who reach level 20 directing them to the riding trainer.
Journeyman Riding (Skill 150): Can now be learned at level 40 for 50. Mail will be sent to players who reach level 40 directing them back to the riding trainer.
Expert Riding (Skill 225): Can now be learned at level 60 for 600 from trainers in Honor Hold or Thrallmar. Faction discounts now apply (Honor Hold for Alliance; Thrallmar for Horde). Flight speed at this skill level has been increased to +150% of run speed, up from +60%.

As we can see, flying mounts were fairly annoying to get before 3.2 since you had to be level 70. Which made Outlands a grindy pain in the patoohe.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Could not agree more to this. its not the ideas that are bad its the attitude.

So you would accept them if they were said in a nice, PC friendly way?

[Thage]

It would kill casuals because it WOULD require more effort than sitting in SW/ORG and pushing a button to teleport all over the world and half afk/ or not really pay attention.

Not sure where people seem to get this idea that Heroic raiding, Challenge Mode 5-mans, and high-end arena aren't there for them anymore. WoW's big draw is that it has something for every skill level, from dailies and Scenarios at the casual end of the spectrum and Heroic raiding and high-rated Arena at the hardcore end; shoehorning people back into a more hardcore endgame with no casual-friendly options is a failed philosophy as Cataclysm showed in the first two tiers.

The thing is, you can still play at your own pace, you just wouldn;t be as progressed as someone that put in 8-10 hours, which should be fine and makes perfect sense.

Welcome to MoP, have you played it at endgame?

[Not Helping]

Sounds like a solid plan OP. I wish you were head of Blizzard Entertainment.

[Belloc]

Another batch of ideas that just make the game more tedious, difficult, and annoying. Let's make LFR more difficult because your schedule doesn't allow for normal raiding... that's a great idea! While we're at it, why don't we just

I've seen plenty of ideas that would be terrible for this game, but the OP just loves to pack a bunch of them into one post, eh?

I really really wish people would put some thought into what kind of effect their ideas would actually have on the game. These ideas would cause a lot of players to quit.