It's not Nostalgia.

[Deleted]

However I do miss the kind of quests where you didn't always knew exactly where to go. Back in TBC I sometimes looked for quest locations for an hour or so. Now they take you by the hand. I miss that a bit.

[Deleted]

Of course it's raiding. That's like saying heroic 5 mans are not 5 man dungeons because Challenge modes are harder. You could just as well say normal mode is not real raiding because heroic raids are harder.

No one said anything about the difficulty being the thing that makes LFR not a raid...

[Deleted]

wtf is mope?

Anyway, if you chose to play the game like that then it's your choice. Other people like to talk to people and explore and group up and be in a guild en do stuff. That you're ok with just clicking a few buttons is your own choice.

Mope means MoP. I don't know why he does that.

[Mawnix]

wtf is mope?

Anyway, if you chose to play the game like that then it's your choice. Other people like to talk to people and explore and group up and be in a guild en do stuff. That you're ok with just clicking a few buttons is your own choice.

You shouldn't of even responded to him. He doesn't listen to people's opinions that don't match his.

Case and point: the fact that if its not TBC, he doesn't support it.

[Deleted]

No one said anything about the difficulty being the thing that makes LFR not a raid...

Then what makes LFR not a raid? Difficulty is the major difference.

[KrazyK923]

So the argument is that the game was different.

You realize that most of what you linked under the implication of "yay it was good" was just busy work to make you waste time?

[Definition]

Nope I started playing just after the SSC patch.

SSC was in at BC launch...

[Asmekiel]

Mope means MoP. I don't know why he does that.

As in "expansion"? Never seen that before

You shouldn't of even responded to him. He doesn't listen to people's opinions that don't match his.

Case and point: the fact that if its not TBC, he doesn't support it.

It's not so strange he gets banned all the time with the way he tries to force himself into discussions.

[Jaylock]

wtf is mope?

Anyway, if you chose to play the game like that then it's your choice. Other people like to talk to people and explore and group up and be in a guild en do stuff. That you're ok with just clicking a few buttons is your own choice.

Mists of Pandaria Expansion.

The real question is why do people feel the constant need to flame and troll me for my opinions? Cant you just leave it at that, and not even respond?

OT: All the modern age WoW players today like to bash TBC and Vanilla like it was some red headed stepchild of the WoW era. When in fact, it was those two games that gave you the population you have today. It was the hardmode raiders who actually raided the content blizzard provided that gave you what you have today.

Face it, you looked up to those raiders back then. You did. You wanted to be like them, you wanted the shiny gear, you wanted the mounts, you wanted everything they had. You coveted them, and looked at them with envy. Then you whined to blizzard until they eventually caved into your whining and moaning and now the game became a UI game. As i said before. Is this not so? Did it not happen the EXACT way i just explained?

[Deleted]

And old WoW rewarded players for effort? HAHAHAHAAAA Please tell me another joke.

Making a successful guild isn't easy, especially now. It's simply not worth the effort. There are no real incentives to even try unlike before.

And even if I did, what good does complaining do? They're not going to change the game back. It'd be suicide for themselves in the market.

What I am hoping is that you casual "gamers" all quit for greener pastures at some point in the future then Blizz can return WoW to its former glory while you play your latest Facebook game.

Even if WoW only has a million subs it can still be profitable.

Otherwise I am hoping that Blizz try to give everyone what they want. They might make guild raiding more rewarding, but that would mean less people in LFR.

Can you stomach longer que times? I doubt it.

Yes, we LIKE the GAME that WoW is now.
Don't like it? Than get lost and go play some other game.
WoW hasn't been like classic for almost 7 years, it's time to move on with your QQ.

Personally, I want Wrath back. Before LFG. If they could make guild raiding more rewarding and merge dead servers or find a way to make transfers easier so there are less dead servers, it would go a long way to bringing a sense of community back.

But of course, that's not going to happen. You prefer to play a single player game with other people.

Guild raiding has never been popular. That's a statistical fact, and nothing they ever would of done would of changed that. It's WHY the changes were made, for one damned thing. BARELY ANYONE DID IT. For YEARS, and it got the most budget. Anyone who can't understand that is just.... thinking out of their own limited tunnel visioned situations in the game, and ignoring the plight of the lower 99%ers.

Raiding seemed fine to me in Wrath. Just because PUGs didn't kill the Lich King doesn't mean that raiding was a failure. It just meant that many people weren't willing to put in the effort.

Raiding had a ripple effect. I honestly don't mind if you have your single player MMO rollercoaster ride as long as there is room for communities, but as WoW stands now, they just aren't worth the effort unless you are extremely hardcore. LFR is simply easier.

You don't play this game anymore, do you?

I do. You just don't know what a world is.

And how does it matter in any way that other people play the game differently?

Because your experience has destroyed mine. Blizzard can't please everyone. They have to focus on giving lazy people with a sense of entitlement what they want instead of making an actual game world.

[Byniri]

Mists of Pandaria Expansion.

Dammit Jaylock...

[BatteredRose]

It's not nostalgia with the game being so incredibly different than what was released.

That's the very definition of nostalgia.

I like how you also only posted some of the "good times" of the past... which, again, is nostalgia.

The MMORPG genre wasn't about every single person being shuffled through the content to make sure they see everything and get every item they wanted. It was, "Here's the world, go do whatever you will do. Good luck not getting your ass kicked."

It's still like that. You can't get a team chalk full of random inexperienced people who know nothing of the game and do the real end-game content (heroic raiding, etc).

And no, don't even try to say "herp derp LFRZ!" LFR is more of a demo mode, diet raiding, for those whose time constraints generally don't let them have a normal raiding group, or whatever other reason they have for not being a normal raid group.

[Asmekiel]

I do. You just don't know what a world is.

Please explain? Sure, the world changed with Cataclysm, but there's still a world in the game. Places to explore, neat little easter eggs everywhere.

Because your experience has destroyed mine. Blizzard can't please everyone. They have to focus on giving lazy people with a sense of entitlement what they want instead of making an actual game world.

Don't you have heroic raiding for that?

[willowe]

Vanilla WoW would fail hard and fast if it came out today. The 100k people who'd love it wouldn't be enough to keep it afloat and it'd be F2P within a year.

Vanilla WoW had some good aspects and a lot of tedium, ever try that quest to summon Avatar of Hakkar in Sunken Temple?

1. Start Tanaris. Gain quest "Screecher Spirits"
2. Go to Feralas. Complete Quest.
3. Return to Tanaris. Hand in quest.
4. Pick Up new Quest. Do ZF. Hand in Quest.
5. Pick up new Quest. Go where? Oh, Hinterlands. Enjoy.
6. Get Egg in Hinterlands. Return all the f%%king way to Tanaris. Hand in Quest.
7. Pick up New Quest. Go where? Oh, Sunken Temple. Halfway across Azeroth again. Enjoy.
8. Run ST, Kill Hakkar, Loot Him, Return to Tanaris. Again.
9. Dude needs more tablets. Gain Quest to go to Eastern Plaguelands.
10. Go to EP for two rocks. Come back, hand in quest.
11. Oh yeah, more rocks. This time in Lower Blackrock Spire. Really Blizzard? Do I get Air Miles for all this travel?
12. Hand in quest. Finally a good reward. A Cloak. Now the next quest has you go to the dude across the street.
13. Now what? Oh, go to the troll island in Stranglethorn. Yay! More travel.

You want this shit back? Seriously?

[Crashdummy]

The game was not better in vanilla because it was more of a chore. So running is better than flying now? Having to get 40 people to raid is better than getting 25 or 10? Having less cities is better?

No, Vanilla was not better in any way. Vanilla was full of bugs, most of the things it had were a chore and it was poorly designed compared to WotLK or even MoP (which is worse than WotLK).

The only reason why Vanilla was so successful is because the competition was EVEN WORSE. More of a chore, less casual friendly and more elitists.

So you see, you do have your nostalgia googles up.

[Jaylock]

Making a successful guild isn't easy, especially now. It's simply not worth the effort. There are no real incentives to even try unlike before.



What I am hoping is that you casual "gamers" all quit for greener pastures at some point in the future then Blizz can return WoW to its former glory while you play your latest Facebook game.

Even if WoW only has a million subs it can still be profitable.

Otherwise I am hoping that Blizz try to give everyone what they want. They might make guild raiding more rewarding, but that would mean less people in LFR.

Can you stomach longer que times? I doubt it.



Personally, I want Wrath back. Before LFG. If they could make guild raiding more rewarding and merge dead servers or find a way to make transfers easier so there are less dead servers, it would go a long way to bringing a sense of community back.

But of course, that's not going to happen. You prefer to play a single player game with other people.



Raiding seemed fine to me in Wrath. Just because PUGs didn't kill the Lich King doesn't mean that raiding was a failure. It just meant that many people weren't willing to put in the effort.

Raiding had a ripple effect. I honestly don't mind if you have your single player MMO rollercoaster ride as long as there is room for communities, but as WoW stands now, they just aren't worth the effort unless you are extremely hardcore. LFR is simply easier.



I do. You just don't know what a world is.



Because your experience has destroyed mine. Blizzard can't please everyone. They have to focus on giving lazy people with a sense of entitlement what they want instead of making an actual game world.

I agree with everything you have posted here.

+1 to your post good sir.

[Otimus]

Mists of Pandaria Expansion.

The real question is why do people feel the constant need to flame and troll me for my opinions? Cant you just leave it at that, and not even respond?

OT: All the modern age WoW players today like to bash TBC and Vanilla like it was some red headed stepchild of the WoW era. When in fact, it was those two games that gave you the population you have today. It was the hardmode raiders who actually raided the content blizzard provided that gave you what you have today.

Face it, you looked up to those raiders back then. You did. You wanted to be like them, you wanted the shiny gear, you wanted the mounts, you wanted everything they had. You coveted them, and looked at them with envy. Then you whined to blizzard until they eventually caved into your whining and moaning and now the game became a UI game. As i said before. Is this not so? Did it not happen the EXACT way i just explained?

"It was the hardmode raiders who actually raided the content blizzard provided that gave you what you have today."

By what logic do you figure that? In Vanilla, less than 1% raided, in BC, less than 5% raided. Most people just leveled and didn't even finish, even, back then.

Are you trying to claim the raiding community and such gave it popularity? If so, how do you figure?

If anything, the ads on TV, good reviews on websites, positive word of mouth, and the episode of South park around the time of BC did more for the game than raiding, an activitiy barely anyone ever did, did.

[Jaylock]

Vanilla WoW would fail hard and fast if it came out today. The 100k people who'd love it wouldn't be enough to keep it afloat and it'd be F2P within a year.

Vanilla WoW had some good aspects and a lot of tedium, ever try that quest to summon Avatar of Hakkar in Sunken Temple?

1. Start Tanaris. Gain quest "Screecher Spirits"
2. Go to Feralas. Complete Quest.
3. Return to Tanaris. Hand in quest.
4. Pick Up new Quest. Do ZF. Hand in Quest.
5. Pick up new Quest. Go where? Oh, Hinterlands. Enjoy.
6. Get Egg in Hinterlands. Return all the f%%king way to Tanaris. Hand in Quest.
7. Pick up New Quest. Go where? Oh, Sunken Temple. Halfway across Azeroth again. Enjoy.
8. Run ST, Kill Hakkar, Loot Him, Return to Tanaris. Again.
9. Dude needs more tablets. Gain Quest to go to Eastern Plaguelands.
10. Go to EP for two rocks. Come back, hand in quest.
11. Oh yeah, more rocks. This time in Lower Blackrock Spire. Really Blizzard? Do I get Air Miles for all this travel?
12. Hand in quest. Finally a good reward. A Cloak. Now the next quest has you go to the dude across the street.
13. Now what? Oh, go to the troll island in Stranglethorn. Yay! More travel.

You want this shit back? Seriously?

Thats what made the game immersive. It was that you had a purpose to travel the world because npc in Tanaris needed something in a zone FAR away that he couldnt get to himself, therefore he asks YOU (the hero) to retreive the rocks for him, or the essence, or the egg, or whatever the fuck he happens to need to make the powerful cloak for you.

Theres a reason why its called a QUEST. A quest implies a great deal of effort. Some more than others, but effort none the less.

Now we have you, the facebook pro gamer generation who wants everything NOW NOW NOW, which is why blizzard caved and gave you what you want. OH THERE GOES ANY SENSE OF IMMERSION / WORLD / EXPLORATION / LEGENDARY QUESTS... happy now?

[Otimus]

Making a successful guild isn't easy, especially now. It's simply not worth the effort. There are no real incentives to even try unlike before.



What I am hoping is that you casual "gamers" all quit for greener pastures at some point in the future then Blizz can return WoW to its former glory while you play your latest Facebook game.

Even if WoW only has a million subs it can still be profitable.

Otherwise I am hoping that Blizz try to give everyone what they want. They might make guild raiding more rewarding, but that would mean less people in LFR.

Can you stomach longer que times? I doubt it.



Personally, I want Wrath back. Before LFG. If they could make guild raiding more rewarding and merge dead servers or find a way to make transfers easier so there are less dead servers, it would go a long way to bringing a sense of community back.

But of course, that's not going to happen. You prefer to play a single player game with other people.



Raiding seemed fine to me in Wrath. Just because PUGs didn't kill the Lich King doesn't mean that raiding was a failure. It just meant that many people weren't willing to put in the effort.

Raiding had a ripple effect. I honestly don't mind if you have your single player MMO rollercoaster ride as long as there is room for communities, but as WoW stands now, they just aren't worth the effort unless you are extremely hardcore. LFR is simply easier.



I do. You just don't know what a world is.



Because your experience has destroyed mine. Blizzard can't please everyone. They have to focus on giving lazy people with a sense of entitlement what they want instead of making an actual game world.

You simply can't make content around the basis of "If you don't put in the effort, too bad". You have to have options. This content takes a lot of money to make, it, for years, got most of the post-launch budget of anything else in the game, for an activity barely anyone did. Even in WOTLK, where raiding was at it's most welcoming, barely anyone did it. You just can't base your game around that kind of stuff, or have it as a focus, or have major, exclusive content just for that group. It makes zero logical sense.

[yjmark]

What I am hoping is that you casual "gamers" all quit for greener pastures at some point in the future then Blizz can return WoW to its former glory while you play your latest Facebook game.

.........
Personally, I want Wrath back.

You do realize that Wrath was where Blizz really started catering to casual players right? Seems like everything you came to hate about WoW (from your post) actually started with Wrath. Then, you wish that WoW was more like Wrath? Strange.....