It's not Nostalgia.

[melodramocracy]

I'm not sure how the argument that LFR caused a decline in progression raiding makes sense. Nor have I actually seen evidence supporting this argument.

People who only do LFR weren't part of the progression raiding scene anyway so...

*scratches head*

Nor will you see hard evidence on either of your statements, unless Blizzard releases numbers. My guess would be that folks who, for a large variety of reasons, weren't happy with the usual guild thing find that the LFR is enough of a placebo to let them enjoy themselves on some level. It's almost it's own 'thing', seeing that there's a gear requirement to get in, one that is never ever dependent on finishing anything more difficult than the LFR itself. The perks of it outweigh the negatives, so common sense says that many folks have adapted it out of preference rather than feeling that it was their only option.

I'd really like to see numbers on how many LFR raiders haven't even attempted a normal boss in this tier, or all expansion. It'd also be interesting to see how many of those same players have raided normals in the past expansions.

[ohshift]

It's not nostalgia!
Goes on to show exactly what nostalgia is.

[Osmeric]

I'd really like to see numbers on how many LFR raiders haven't even attempted a normal boss in this tier, or all expansion. It'd also be interesting to see how many of those same players have raided normals in the past expansions.

I'm doing LFR now. The last time I did a normal mode boss (ignoring world bosses in MoP) was Wrath. I didn't raid at all in Cataclysm, not even LFR, even after I came back to it in 12/2011.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:33 PM ----------

It's not nostalgia!
Goes on to show exactly what nostalgia is.

So true. We used to have much better nostalgia. /sigh

[RickJamesLich]

Agreed.



True, however what's wrong with bad players? if all they do is LFR it shouldn't be such a bother. Noone has to raid LFR, certainly not if you raid normals - I get getting some nice and easy upgrades from 496 to 502 items is great but that's your choice for queueing while knowing it could go horribly wrong



I did, not totally discrediting you - might've come off a bit rude there. My bad And as far as travelling with a group goes, sometimes yes but other times people were just too scattered



Unfortunantly people hardly got kicked in mine. I disagree with Vanilla raids being more interesting though. Most of the bossfights were quite simple looking back on them. Compared to now atleast with bosses have more than 2 or 3 abilities to look out for. I think the low amount of stats on gear back then also made it look harder than it really was and these days we have a bit too much of a good thing.

I'd love to see more revamped Vanilla raids and dungeons though ~ could do without the BC ones for another year truthfully ^^

Sorry if I respond out of order, yeah, I'd like to see more revamps too, to be honest, I don't mind if they switch it up a bit, but having a place like BRD that you could grind out would be awesome IMO. I think LFD pretty much made dungeons irrelevant.... after a few days you never have a reason to do them again unless you want to VP cap, and even then, you can just do LFR, which gives you a chance at epics. Challenge modes were a step in the right direction, but they don't offer actual upgrades though.

As for the bad players thing, there's nothing wrong with it, but LFR pretty much encourages not learning mechanics by allowing people to stand in fire - I can't tell you how many pugs I've run with where the LFR guys cause problems. Again, nothing wrong with that, but I think it would be a lot more interesting if they had 2 or 3 bosses, that were more likely to drop gear (a very wide range of gear), that you had to focus somewhat on, then giving all 12 bosses out for LFR. As it stands right now, LFR makes "wiping" look evil, to be honest, I always thought it was fun learning the fights (I may be in the minority here though).

By no means am I saying that Vanilla was perfect, it wasn't, stuff like dual spec, hybrids being able to play any role they want, raid bosses are better tuned, many more battle grounds, classes have many more interesting mechanics now... all good stuff, but some of the really epic stuff like 5 mans, raids, and just exploring the world have lost their mystique.

[Otimus]

i don't give a fuck about how many people could see any content, because i don't reduce the whole game to one instance mode and say WoW in general is great because this piece of content is challenging/interesting/fun.

All content can be accessed by every player. If you are too lazy / unskilled or whatever, it's your choice. Simple as that.

The problem becomes the fact that 95% were "choosing" not to. That's a problem, and you can't realistically keep designing things that way.

[Mawnix]

Really? I find them significantly harder. WotLK - definitely the easiest raids ever. Cata - next easiest. MoP - more along the TBC level of difficulty imho.

I'm still raiding with the same group of folks since TBC, and I would say we are definitely struggling more in MoP relative to Cata or WotLK.

Are you talking about Pre Nerf or Post Nerf.

[Thatwsntmilk]

All your post did was remind me how much better the game is now for ALL players.

And by "ALL" you mean "bad"?

[Xl House lX]

I really, really hate the argument that people throw, "Oh you only like X Expansion because of Nostalgia."

I started playing in early Burning Crusade and to me, WoW at its core is Horde vs. Alliance vs. Scourge/Burning Legion. Anything past that and it doesn't feel like WoW to me. Cataclysm and MoP have little to no Scourge or Burning Legion involved anywhere.

That is why Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King will always be my two favorite expansion so far, no other reason. Now, if they come out with another Scourge/Burning Legion expansion, this could possibly change.

[Mawnix]

And by "ALL" you mean "bad"?

Oh, hey there.

Click my armory please.

Thanks.

And unless you're placed higher on World of Logs than me, regardless of your class, I'd sit down and shut up.

[lockedout]

Definition of nostalgia according to Wiktionary:

1. A longing for home or familiar surroundings; homesickness.
2. A bittersweet yearning for the things of the past.
3. Reminiscence of the speaker's childhood or younger years.

It is nostalgia.

What if you want the things from the past because it is your preference. This is a game if the older model was more fun then it isn't nostalgia it's personal preference.
I like classic rock because new music sucks. I didn't live when Led Zepplin made music but I think it's much better than todays garbage.

[Thatwsntmilk]

Oh, hey there.

Click my armory please.

Thanks.

And unless you're placed higher on World of Logs than me, regardless of your class, I'd sit down and shut up.

Did you even play when progress was relevant in WoW aka pre-Wotlk?

[lockedout]

Oh, hey there.

Click my armory please.

Thanks.

And unless you're placed higher on World of Logs than me, regardless of your class, I'd sit down and shut up.

Grats on killing the first boss on heroic.

[Azureqt]

LFR and LFD killed WoW.

There is no journey.

Just press a button... very sad.

[Thrax]

If people could just take the high road and see the point of the post, that'd be greeeeaat. Yes it is nostalgia, and yes the game has lost its immersion.

How about we talk about immersion and stop hating at his choice of vocabulary?

WoW hasn't got it now, I hope the majority agrees.

In terms of MMORPG, it has currently lost the MM and the RP, for me personally. (I highlighted MM because of the current status of the community, no server community, playing with randoms via LFR/LFD and greed that comes with it, etc.)

[namelessone]

How about we talk about immersion and stop hating at his choice of vocabulary?

WoW hasn't got it now, I hope the majority agrees.

In terms of MMORPG, it has currently lost the MM and the RP, for me personally. (I highlighted MM because of the current status of the community, no server community, playing with randoms via LFR/LFD and greed that comes with it, etc.)

You can't LOSE something you NEVER HAD.

I played WoW since day 1 and as far as I'm concerned it never had any meaningful immersion. Mobs that stand in one spot while you kill their buddy 20 feet away, 5 players looting 5 heads from one dead guy... I can go on and on forever. And as far as MM goes - you seem to be confused about the definition of "massive multiplayer". Does the game have hundreds of players playing at the same time? Yes - therefore it's Massive Multiplayer.

This is exactly why it's nostalgia - you are crying that wow "lost" things it never had to begin with.

[Mawnix]

Did you even play when progress was relevant in WoW aka pre-Wotlk?

Played from beginning of BC to current times.

Anymore questions?

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 11:07 PM ----------

Grats on killing the first boss on heroic.

Thanks!

Nice to see you've downed Ra'den. =]

Do you really need to pull out petty insults because you can't argue not all players are shit currently?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No but many others have and you inferred with your post that the developers only cater to one demographic. Which isn't true. They don't need to make normal or heroic raids. But they do so anyway. Same for Challenge modes and other great content they make. Most people whine that LFR is the devil and it should be removed. Quite frankly the games in a much better state now than at any other time (in terms of content being catered to all different types).

Now the developers get a lot of stick and they do make changes if theres a genuine reason. I think the daily quest issue was one of those that showed it was complete bollocks and should have not been released as it was. Having all those reputations and gated as they were behind golden lotus was a massive grind. One I am glad I didn't bother with.

Dailies aren't necessary. I also didn't agree with anything, or imply I think LFR should be removed. You are literally making things up to argue with me about.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 07:24 PM ----------

You can't LOSE something you NEVER HAD.

I played WoW since day 1 and as far as I'm concerned it never had any meaningful immersion. Mobs that stand in one spot while you kill their buddy 20 feet away, 5 players looting 5 heads from one dead guy... I can go on and on forever. And as far as MM goes - you seem to be confused about the definition of "massive multiplayer". Does the game have hundreds of players playing at the same time? Yes - therefore it's Massive Multiplayer.

This is exactly why it's nostalgia - you are crying that wow "lost" things it never had to begin with.

No, your last sentence is very false. This is very obviously why the "lolnostalgia" crap is simply that: CRAP. Its a straw man. What its really saying is.... NUH UHN I REMEMBER BETTER THAN YOU!!!!!111111 Which is obviously just plain stupid. No, you don't remember my experiences better than me. You remember yours negatively, and while thats fine, your negative time in early WoW doesn't mean mine was also negative. Sure, they have fixed many silly things in the game, but that doesn't mean everything about Vanilla was bad, and everything about MoP is good.

Can you please use a real argument next time? Obviously if you think any of your arguments are good, its just nostalgia.

[Seefer]

Really? I find them significantly harder. WotLK - definitely the easiest raids ever. Cata - next easiest. MoP - more along the TBC level of difficulty imho.

I'm still raiding with the same group of folks since TBC, and I would say we are definitely struggling more in MoP relative to Cata or WotLK.

You can still find raiders with no LK kill or Ulduar kill............dang near every raider has beaten the joke that is Dragon Soul.

[Teriz]

I do miss the class specific quests. For example, Shaman used to travel to different parts of the world to gather their elemental totems. Now you just get them as you level. I also sort of miss paying my trainer to get new abilities, but I understand why that was changed.

In the end, the game has changed for the better. Especially the talent system.

[Golden]

For the people who blame LFR for ruining the game, I think this quote is very appropriate.

Back in vanilla, a lot of our players were content just to level characters. just leveling was a huge commitment. In later expansions, even though players reached max level pretty quickly, they could still go back and level an alt. But even if you love alts, there are only so many you are willing to level before you're kind of done with it. LK brought achievements, which again provided some amount of content for a lot of players, but just adding new achievements only provides so much additional content. So in Cataclysm and MoP we decided to bring a lot of players into raiding, which is one of the most epic and rewarding experiences in WoW. It was a pretty successful endeavor. - Blizzard