No love for the hunter in 5 mans...

[eschatological]

I know the topic says 5 man, but anyone else remember the days where no one in your raid pulled except hunters? Ironic eh?

In a raid, with a tank who is expecting it, totally different scenario. I pull bosses in ToT too. It helps with tank positioning.

[Asmekiel]

I know the topic says 5 man, but anyone else remember the days where no one in your raid pulled except hunters? Ironic eh?

I remember the day that my finger slipped and I killed an entire 25m raid with it. Got DI'd, didn't know what it was, killed the entire raid again when it wore off (I got DI'd under the boss spawn place)

[Mikey P]

In a raid, with a tank who is expecting it, totally different scenario. I pull bosses in ToT too. It helps with tank positioning.

I was thinking more along the lines of pulling lava packs, Baron Geddon, and Shazrah back to Garr's room for better layout, and hunters were the only tons capable of doing this with a built in oh shit button. Yes, the raid was expecting it. I'd argue, that if a tank is a fraction of a second away from face pulling, and a MD + Multi shot comes in miliseconds before the face pull and the tank gets upset, the tank should chill out. Anything sooner than that, the hunter should patiently wait with MD queued up for the pull.

[Reavyn]

I know the topic says 5 man, but anyone else remember the days where no one in your raid pulled except hunters? Ironic eh?

I certainly do.

But that's completely different from a random LFG group. I can't count the times where I was joined by a fresh 90 healer. I certainly don't mind that either. I recently got my priest to 90 too. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. But when some idiot starts mass pulling and the healer can't keep up, I get pissed. If you want bigger pulls; ask in party chat! Don't just go and do shit on your own because I will vote-kick you. And if the vote fails, I simply leave.

Simple communication prevents so much annoyance. But it seems like pretty much everyone I find in LFG groups are either spamming idiots or mutes who seem to have forgotten the basic skills of interaction with anyone living.

Seriously, I can't stress this enough; if you want to do anything in a group that deviates from 'normal', ask it. It's not hard and nobody will think less of you. Quite the contrary even. The very best part of someone breaking the ice in a random group is that more often than not, people come out of their shell and also chat during a run. That makes it so much more enjoyable.

[Sivick]

(Sorry if this thread is up somewhere else, I tried looking for one)

I just dinged 86 and haven't really played in over a year. I don't enjoy questing anymore so I've been leveling through the dungeon finder and running around exploring in Pandaria.

Now... usually if I just go brain dead in a 5 man and auto shoot all the trash and boss, everyone is content and a run goes normally. Now if I actually do what I do best and play a hunter the way it's always meant to be played, I get kicked from the group, and no one says a word...

My last group I was playing like the good old days, perfect dps rotations, MD'ing the tank on every pull, sometimes pulling a group slightly before the tank gets there but it's not like he wasn't going to pull them in 2 seconds anyways. I don't pull anything that wasn't expected to be pulled but I'm guessing because I'm taking the actual pull away from the tank that he got butt-hurt?


I have read a couple other posts about issues with casuals like non-gemming (which may also have something to do with it, I didn't gem my level 85 LFR gear because I knew I'd be replacing them in Pandaria shortly), ninja pulling hunters, and such. I didn't feel like it was ninja pulling but I guess that's how they saw it.


The example: In that 5 man where you head left first, kill the water boss that in phase two just twirls around. After that first water boss I run (with the help of rocket boots) ahead down the hall to get ready for the next trash. I set fire and ice and snake traps infront of it, waiting for everyone. Our tank is a DK. Everyone gathers, I MD the tank, he starts to walk forward so I MultiShot the group, making them walk the 1 yard into my trap. We kill the pack, tank runs towards the next pack, I MD and shoot just as the tank gets there... no issues yet in my book... I'm dpsing and.... Loadscreen....
I could add that I didn't stand with the group on the water boss (but didn't get hit by anything) and MD'd the water spirits to the tank as they spawned. That might have annoyed him too.


I miss the good old days where you actually had to work with people, ASK them to do something or not do something, rather than kick and replace. Remember when you had to run to a dungeon? People didn't kick people during those unless it was a major hindrance, it helped people learn to work together.


Yes this is a bit of a rant, but it's been bugging me.

Tanks hate it, HATE IT, when you pull before them. It's the number 1 tank pet peeve.

[Frolk]

Some tanks got a small manhood so they have to act like the alpha leader, aka they wanna pull in their slowass pace, 1 and 1 pack regardless of their gear.
By having a hunter MD pulling its making them look less manly, so they vote kick the hunter and feel that makes em the "leader" again. its quite sad :/

[grexly75]

I still remember the old adage you pull it you tank it comes to mind.. But the number one rule now days is never pull before the tank unless asked too by said tank as things can go pear shaped if the tank / heals and other dps are not ready..

[Prokne]

But it IS pulling and it's pulling when the tank might not want to. What you and others fail to understand is that the hunter is dictating when mobs get aggroed but it's not the hunter's responsibility to keep aggro. It's the tank's. Some tanks use certian abilities to build threat, want to get initial aggro on certain mobs, might want to wait a few seconds to have an ability off CD. It's presumptuous for someone else to effectively say "Fuck what you want, I want you to pull now" and MD mobs to the tank.

Again, LET THE TANK PULL. I've played since late Vanilla and it's always been considered rude and out of place for DPS to pull mobs. The tank's the person who has responsibilty for getting and keeping aggro. DPS? Your job is to kill shit that the tank has pulled.Seriously, if the few seconds you're saving are that important to your life, log out.

I dont think you understand what I said. I said MDing at the same time the tank pulls, ie MS hits right as DnD goes down and the tank is already right on top of the mobs. And nothing more than the ones in that group. So the tank has technically already pulled and is prepared to have those mobs on him because he went in to pull and is in the middle of that pull. A lot of the time what happens on big AoE pulls is the tank runs in and body aggros the mobs a split second before getting aoe threat. In that split second, sometimes I MD those mobs to the tank. I think the OP pulled like right when the tank started moving towards the mobs but was probably several yards from aggroing them. In that case the tank may or may not have actually wanted to pull or was just moving closer for some other reason.

[clevin]

I dont think you understand what I said. I said MDing at the same time the tank pulls, ie MS hits right as DnD goes down and the tank is already right on top of the mobs. And nothing more than the ones in that group. So the tank has technically already pulled and is prepared to have those mobs on him because he went in to pull and is in the middle of that pull. A lot of the time what happens on big AoE pulls is the tank runs in and body aggros the mobs a split second before getting aoe threat. In that split second, sometimes I MD those mobs to the tank. I think the OP pulled like right when the tank started moving towards the mobs but was probably several yards from aggroing them. In that case the tank may or may not have actually wanted to pull or was just moving closer for some other reason.

I understood you. The difference is that in the first case you're solidifying the aggro on mobs that the tank is pulling. The OP is pulling the mobs. And dammit, the few seconds just isnt that fucking important. Let the tank pull. If you want to be the one to aggro mobs roll a tank.

[Nario64]

Not only that, but a lot of hunters do the same WITHOUT MD. That's just plain annoying. Most tanks won't see you've misdirected, the only thing they see is arrows flying past. Enough reason for them to kick you.

I actually think this may be the main issue. He may not have noticed that I was MD'ing, but saw my multishot going by JUST as he pulls the mobs. If I was a tank and didn't think the hunter was MD'ing then I'd probably get pissed off too if he didn't wait for me to get some threat.


To clarify what happened in my example: I did not pull when the healer's mana was low, I did not pull when the tank was waiting for a cooldown (specifically because the pull in question that got me in trouble was right after the first boss and we had to run down a hall for 30 seconds to get to it). I pulled when the tank was running in, the mobs took 1 second to run towards the tank, step on my 3 traps and by that time the tank was on them.

I can admit that looking back at it now, one other possible reason he was upset could have been that he didn't get to set them up for the first second himself, maybe wasn't the optimal 'cleave' grouping for a second and he had to take a step back once he was at them.

Maybe I just have a warped mind when it comes to what I think is fun, but I have a warrior tank alt and I always loved when a group tested me. Sure that dps isn't attacking the right target, even if I taunt it I might not generate enough threat in time to keep it on me, so I keep threat on the other 2 and taunt juggle the last one. I guess most people play the game to simply 'farm' things for raids and don't want any extra hassle. I don't play for the raids anymore, I used to and was good at it, but these days I play for fun in the moment. Playing a tank also adds to the fact that I have a good idea of when the tank is 'ready' and I do watch the healer's mana pool before doing extreme pulls.

Someone said that back in TBC I wouldn't have been doing these types of pulls.... Actually I did more of them. Back then we couldn't throw traps, so I often asked if I could lead, and I would lay a trap, pull the mobs have the tank be next closest, wait for the trap to go off, make sure the tank is in combat, feign, distracting shot mob 2, place second trap. BAM 2 trapped mobs. Loved doing that. It seems like we went from the days of the AFK hunter in MC, to the skillfull hunter in TBC, to the lack of CC in wrath, to the AFK hunter again now in Pandaland. I bet if I autoshot the whole instance no one would mind.


The best icebreaker I had the other day in a 5 man was when I forgot to take my pets taunt off from questing. I said "Sorry, pet growl off now." one hair of a second before the tank said "Please turn pet taunt off". I joked around then saying "Beat you too it". He laughed, I laughed, we all laughed... it was a good time. No issues in that group after that, still did the same MD'ing things.

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 02:26 PM ----------

I think the OP pulled like right when the tank started moving towards the mobs but was probably several yards from aggroing them. In that case the tank may or may not have actually wanted to pull or was just moving closer for some other reason.

I really wish they would have said something, or I could have at least seen the reason for the kick. If it was just "he pulled while I was running, I didn't get to hit the mob first, but other than that nothing different happened." then I don't see why people get so upset.
My motto in wow is Adapt, I only kick someone if they are purposely sabotaging a run.

[tanktank]

If I run a random and see a hunter with under 375k hp with the buffs, I want to kick them right there, or I spend half the instance waiting on their pet to die because they don't turn the taunt off. Even though they have been told numerous times. I usually carry the dps while tanking so I don't care if they are sub-par dps, the only thing that irks me is the pet tanking the 5 man bosses. I seem to get grouped with players 30-40 ilvls lower and the little bit of vengeance I do get from the bosses helps me get out of there faster.

[Kilpi]

I don't pull anything that wasn't expected to be pulled but I'm guessing because I'm taking the actual pull away from the tank that he got butt-hurt?

Theres your problem. I don't know if you've been tanking in WoW but that is one of the most annoying things hunters do in 5-mans. And you know, the tank can't kick you alone. I don't know if I would actually call a vote on your ass, but I would mention that could you cut the crap.

[clevin]

Someone said that back in TBC I wouldn't have been doing these types of pulls.... Actually I did more of them. Back then we couldn't throw traps, so I often asked if I could lead, and I would lay a trap,...


.

Here let me highlight the difference... See the bolding? If you've talked to people and explained things and they KNOW you'll be pulling, trapping and MDing as needed that's very different from simply MDing mobs to the tank without saying anything. ASking and then pulling is fine. Doing it without asking is a douche move.

[Amorac]

I miss the good old days where you actually had to work with people, ASK them to do something or not do something, rather than kick and replace..

Did you ask it was ok to do what you were doing?

Don't expect others to use the chat function if you don't do it yourself.

Also, did you check if the healer had mana? Just a courtesy perhaps but still, guess healers find it nice to have mana to do what they're joined up for.

[Kilpi]

I do this as well. But sometimes you run into scumbag tanks who think they are actually beneficial to the group. Newsflash, my damn pet can tank 5mans. Which ive had to do twice because of diva's leaving.

Im awaiting the day that Blizzard says "fuck it" and just adds npc tanks, effectively getting rid of divas and long ass queues once and for all.

Newsflash, the tank can pull the mobs without your MD-pulling. I'm just waiting for the day when MD gets removed.

[boogie]

I usually carry the dps while tanking so I don't care if they are sub-par dps

Good lord man how do you beat hunters in DPS on 5 mans? Serpent spread is just silly on trash pulls.

That being said, I misdirect quite a bit as the tank is pulling a pack, but only pull for them if it's someone I know.

OP - Try tanking some time. It's really, really annoying when DPS is trying to "help". Not necessarily because they are doing your job, but because maybe something is off cooldown or it's something that needs to be LoS pulled so you can have proper control over it.

You may have just been kicked for your DPS though, you'll never know without a meter. Optimal single target DPS does not good 5 man DPS make.

[ant13]

Well, as I am tanking in dungeons due to the instant (almost queue), I never have problems with others pulling, BUT its the 2nd tier in the expansion so every dungeon is a faceroll nowdays, however, if it was at the beginning I would propably be pissed off.
In addition, there is no fun, if you are going pack by pack pull, ninja pulls gives that little taste the dungeons need to become attractive... xD

[Deleted]

Some tanks got a small manhood so they have to act like the alpha leader, aka they wanna pull in their slowass pace, 1 and 1 pack regardless of their gear.
By having a hunter MD pulling its making them look less manly, so they vote kick the hunter and feel that makes em the "leader" again. its quite sad :/

Best way to deal with guys like you, is just stand at the entrance and wait for you to MD whole instance to the tank one pack at a time. That sure is fun.

[Jeremypwnz]

When I'm tanking on an alt, I couldn't care less if a Hunter MD'd a pack ahead of me. I was going to pull the next 6 packs anyways. I love pulling the entire room to the right boss in Jade Temple. Gets really fun when the healer gets sleeped. And if for some reason another DPS pulls ahead of me while I'm not close enough to care, I let the puller die before I get aggro and help out the rest of the group. I expect the same treatment when I mess around and pull ahead of the tank.

My pet peeve when tanking are Hunters who can't realize, after I let their pet die 8 times, that their Growl is on. Seriously? Figure it out, at least ask why I'm not holding aggro. I might decide to let you know a thing or two. I absolutely love Dire Maul, the side with those super hard hitting ogres for this tactic. Those freakin 2 shot pets.

While on my Hunter, I haven't used MD in a random since October. Nowadays, I can just chain pull by myself with some Traps and Binding Shot, but I only do that in guild runs. Or the first boss room of Stormstout Brewery.

[ronnen]

Best way to deal with guys like you, is just stand at the entrance and wait for you to MD whole instance to the tank one pack at a time. That sure is fun.

Best way to deal with guys like you, is to just vote kick you for standing at the entrance instead of tanking while I chain MD the whole instance to my pet tank one pack at a time. That sure is faster for me and everyone else than you getting butt hurt because you are pulling incredibly slowly or not at all.

Newsflash, the tank can pull the mobs without your MD-pulling. I'm just waiting for the day when MD gets removed.

This is true. But an equally stunning (not really stunning) revelation is that the 5 mans are easy!

As per the general comeback about pull, I did indeed "roll a tank" on every one of my alts that is capable of spec'ing it. 3 of them at 90 in the 490 to 500 range. I love it when DPS pulls, saves me the trouble. Usually I pull the next pack / the boss as soon as the one I just pulled is ~ half health... toss down a DND / druid pushback / monk snare and let them slowly chase me while DPS finishes them off. Don't have to be in their face to "tank" them.

Dungeons are face roll, and if they aren't and we wipe or the healer gets stretched thin; then that's what party chat is for!
"Hey guys waiting to pull for healer to get mana / Let me pull since 2 people just got owned since we had 20 mobs."

On my hunter, I'd rather get kicked for MD pulling at a pace to finish the dungeon quickly than sit around while you make yourself a sandwich / go to the market / eat roast beef / go wee wee in between every pull. PLEASE KICK ME! I'd leave, but deserter :/ So I pull... and either you keep up or I get kicked, either way I'm happy. I didn't queue on my 520 ilvl hunter which can practically solo the instance for that, I just want my valor and done.

And besides that, I enjoy a level of frenetic energy in my dungeons - I played vanilla where every pull was a potential wipe. I was the first person (well horde anyway) on my server to complete my UBRS key - 5 manning it when most people on my server were 10 and 20 manning it because they were inexperienced. By comparison, the 5 man trash these days are a complete joke. So, I don't want to play with you anyway if you are molasses. It's nothing personal.

BUT, by comparison with the OP, I don't take it personal when/if I get kicked!

This almost never happens though; generally the group either keeps up, or occasionally decides that yes, the tank is indeed far too slow and they vote kick him without any direction from me to do so. Last time that happened, on Gate of Setting Sun, the healer left immediately afterwards (he was in the tanks guild) and we three DPS just did the dungeon by ourselves from first boss to last without issue or pause while the "queue" spun uselessly trying to find us a tank / healer.