[Balance] T15H BiS List

[Slippykins]

Alright, so this is the comparison I came up with over the course of the last couple of hours. In order to try and keep trinket interaction working, I made a list of the best combinations of trinkets, from Heroic TF down to LFR. Gear will interact slightly with this ranking, but hopefully not too much. If in doubt, WrathCalcs yourself. In the end we come to a general conclusion based on the ranking data.

For the sake of this comparison, I'm using the 5.3 T15H BiS list and changing some reforges/gems/neck piece depending on whether or not Wushoolay's is being used. If it is, I swap the Lei Shen neck out for the Passionfire Choker, to reduce the overall amount of hit on everything. Note that this is only an easy change when you consider Ra-den loot: if you're gearing up, Wushoolay's will only be at the ranking below if you can get rid of the hit. If you can't it's the worst of all the options (for that bracket). Also, upgrades aren't properly increasing the proc effect of the trinkets in the current WrathCalcs, so I evaluated the choices without any upgrades (to ensure the static stats on the trinkets that do get multiplied don't skew the data).

Additionally, SPA = the Shado-Pan Assault Valor trinket, and LotC = Heroic Light of the Cosmos with 2/2 upgrades.

Trinket Combinations: Most DPS to least

1. Cha-Ye's + Wushoolay's (Heroic TF)
2. Cha-Ye's + Breath (Heroic TF)
3. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (Heroic TF)
4. Breath + Wushoolay's (Heroic TF)
5. Cha-Ye's + Wushoolay's (Heroic)
6. Wushoolay's + UVLS (Heroic TF)
7. Cha-Ye's + Breath (Heroic)
8. Breath + UVLS (Heroic TF)
9. Breath + Wushoolay's (Heroic)
10. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (Heroic)
11. Wushoolay's + UVLS (Heroic)
12. Cha-Ye's + Wushoolay's (Normal TF)
13. Breath + UVLS (Heroic)
14. Cha-Ye's + Breath (Normal TF)
15. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (Normal TF)
16. Breath + Wushoolay's (Normal TF)
17. Wushoolay's + UVLS (Normal TF)
18. Cha-Ye's + Wushoolay's (Normal)
19. Cha-Ye's + Breath (Normal)
20. Breath + UVLS (Normal TF)
21. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (Normal)
22. Breath + Wushoolay's (Normal)
23. Wushoolay's + UVLS (Normal)
24. Breath + UVLS (Normal)
25. Cha-Ye's + SPA (Normal)
26. Wushoolay's + SPA (Normal)
27. Breath + SPA (Normal)
28. UVLS + SPA (Normal)
29. Cha-Ye's + Wushoolay's (LFR)
30. Cha-Ye's + LotC (LFR)
31. Cha-Ye's + Breath (LFR)
32. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (LFR)
33. Wushoolay's + LotC (LFR)
34. Breath + Wushoolay's (LFR)
35. Wushoolay's + UVLS (LFR)
36. Breath + LotC (LFR)
37. UVLS + LotC (LFR)
38. Breath + UVLS (LFR)

What does this mean overall? Well, we can see a general trend here, but also slight changes if you have access to the two additional trinkets: SPA in normals and LotC in LFR. In either case, SPA is the worst of the normal trinkets and LotC is about even with Breath in LFR.

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In general:

Cha-Ye's > Wushoolay's > Breath > UVLS

**PLEASE NOTE** Wushoolay's is only better than Breath and/or UVLS if you can get rid of the hit. IF YOU CAN'T, it's below all of the options for that bracket.

What's interesting is that for heroics at least, is that this has spurred a small change in this list - like I said earlier, swapping out the necks and Breath for Wushoolay's is about a 1k increase, and this is because the Ra-den loot mostly lacks Spirit. It doesn't change the normal list since there's too much Spirit on the normal options, but at least for the heroic list it does. I'll update the OP after I post this.

Let me know if you have any questions or you think I've made an error somewhere (probably).

Edit: If you're interested in the actual DPS numbers - http://i.imgur.com/Wx3szRP.png

[adnre]

Thanks for the effort! Im sure this will help some other people out too.

[Liax]

How are treants being used if they are best on some fights? All at once? or after the first one falls off? And can be killed with aoe damage? like jinrokhs stuff, rampage on magaera, maze phase durumu?

[huth]

Time them with burst phases and such. Outside of that, it shouldn't make much of a difference as long as you use all charges before the boss dies and never have more than 2 during the fight.

[Stommped]

[*]Ro'shak's Remembrance swapped in for Durumu's Captive Eyeball. This is partly because Ro'shak's has a very strong amount of crit, but also allows us to reforge from Mastery -> Spirit on the Jadefire Drape. This is actually a sizable upgrade (~800 DPS).

This reforge on the Jadefire drape is missing from the OP.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:36 AM ----------

For the sake of this comparison, I'm using the 5.3 T15H BiS list and changing some reforges/gems/neck piece depending on whether or not Wushoolay's is being used. If it is, I swap the Lei Shen neck out for the Passionfire Choker, to reduce the overall amount of hit on everything. Note that this is only an easy change when you consider Ra-den loot: if you're gearing up, Wushoolay's will only be at the ranking below if you can get rid of the hit.

Looks like you updated the OP to switch in Wushoolay's but forgot to swap the necks.

Also are the gems on the OP correct? You mentioned earlier you were using 1 Reckless now, which isn't anywhere in the OP and there's also still a Crafty gem being used; I don't think we can drop 160 hit elsewhere to use this gem.

Great work, as always.

[Slippykins]

This reforge on the Jadefire drape is missing from the OP.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 11:36 AM ----------



Looks like you updated the OP to switch in Wushoolay's but forgot to swap the necks.

Also are the gems on the OP correct? You mentioned earlier you were using 1 Reckless now, which isn't anywhere in the OP and there's also still a Crafty gem being used; I don't think we can drop 160 hit elsewhere to use this gem.

Great work, as always.

Odd, I was sure I edited in all that stuff when I did the other changes. I had to undo the cape enchant to allow for Wushoolay's to be used, and you're corrent there shouldn't be a crafty gem in the offhand. The reckless gem is now in the shoulders.

Hopefully that's all updated, let me know if there's any more slip-ups!

For Treants: as Huth said, you just need to align them with your burst phase (all three on the pull), and from then on whenever you start an eclipse so they benefit from Nature's Grace.

[huth]

Having just killed Horridon HC yesterday, i'd say on that fight it's probably best to just sick the Trees on your ghost add every 20 seconds.

They're... annoying.

[Deleted]

Or use starfall to push them FAAAAAAAAR away.

[huth]

Sadly, Starfall alone isn't enough, as i had to discover. I really like those spirits. A lot. Almost as much as they like me. That's why i spend almost half the fight just looking at them and spamming moonfire. And i even got one on the first roar!Sarcasm? nooooooo

[Deleted]

Sadly, Starfall alone isn't enough, as i had to discover. I really like those spirits. A lot. Almost as much as they like me. That's why i spend almost half the fight just looking at them and spamming moonfire. And i even got one on the first roar!Sarcasm? nooooooo

Last phase starfall can be enough, if you have enough haste

[Drayarr]

Last phase starfall can be enough, if you have enough haste

To use my favorite phrase, if rng gives your the shaft (like it does to me ALL THE TIME) and you get the FIRST FUCKING DINO on every try you spend more time spamming moonfire on it than dpsing the damn adds >.>
Any tips for dealing with it?

With regards to the cloak, do you reckon it will remain "epic" or will it end up being "legendary" when it makes it to live?

[Broodling67]

I personally haven't gotten to Horridon Heroic yet, but I was under the impression that Faerie fire worked on the little pink dino and you could use that whenever you wanted to puch it back. Faerie fire does not require you face your target so just make a macro like:

/tar Direhorn Spirit
/use Faerie fire

That way you can continue facing whatever direction is easier to do dps while keeping the little monster at bay.

Also, maybe a thread about theory craft and BiS list for moonkins isn't the best place to talk about specific tactics for one boss fight.

[Slippykins]

To use my favorite phrase, if rng gives your the shaft (like it does to me ALL THE TIME) and you get the FIRST FUCKING DINO on every try you spend more time spamming moonfire on it than dpsing the damn adds >.>
Any tips for dealing with it?

With regards to the cloak, do you reckon it will remain "epic" or will it end up being "legendary" when it makes it to live?

As far as I know, the cloak will stay epic quality, but might switch. I haven't seen any indication that they'll change it to legendary.

I think a good place to look up/discuss T15 encounters would be the Encounter Mechanics thread on EJ: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t132274-...mechanics_t15/. I haven't gone through it myself, but typically they have some really good tips and tricks for specific fights.

[Deleted]

Hi guys, i don't have such an expertise on moonkin stuff, so i need an advice what trinket combination would be the best. I have these four: Shado-Pan VP trinket, UVLS lfr, heroic LotC 0/2, RoY 2/2. So, which combination would be the best? Thanks and best regards.

P.S. I have 2p t14 and 2p t15, i don't have the legendary meta gem.

[huth]

To use my favorite phrase, if rng gives your the shaft (like it does to me ALL THE TIME) and you get the FIRST FUCKING DINO on every try you spend more time spamming moonfire on it than dpsing the damn adds >.>
Any tips for dealing with it?

With regards to the cloak, do you reckon it will remain "epic" or will it end up being "legendary" when it makes it to live?

I recommend loud, sudden vocalizing to relieve the stress. Regard FF, that doesn't really solve the main problem, as you'd still have to spend most of your time dealing with that nice, friendly dino and it doesn't even give you SS procs.


I doubt we'll get an actual legendary equip item until the very end of the questline. Blizz seems to want to reserve that colour for special non-standard items(special procs, sockets etc.), which the cloak doesn't really fit into. It has high stats, but it isn't out of line for an ilevel 600 cloak.

[xtramuscle]

Hi guys, i don't have such an expertise on moonkin stuff, so i need an advice what trinket combination would be the best. I have these four: Shado-Pan VP trinket, UVLS lfr, heroic LotC 0/2, RoY 2/2. So, which combination would be the best? Thanks and best regards.

P.S. I have 2p t14 and 2p t15, i don't have the legendary meta gem.

The bolded ones

[Deleted]

The bolded ones

Thank you

[Nykezs]

I personally haven't gotten to Horridon Heroic yet, but I was under the impression that Faerie fire worked on the little pink dino and you could use that whenever you wanted to puch it back. Faerie fire does not require you face your target so just make a macro like:

/tar Direhorn Spirit
/use Faerie fire

That way you can continue facing whatever direction is easier to do dps while keeping the little monster at bay.

Also, maybe a thread about theory craft and BiS list for moonkins isn't the best place to talk about specific tactics for one boss fight.

Yes it does work the macro a lot of Boomkins use is the one below. Very easy to set it to a keybind and use it when needed.
#showtooltip Faerie Fire
/target Direhorn Spirit
/cast Faerie Fire
/targetlasttarget

[Deleted]

I personally prefer to moonfire / sunfire in the macro simply because its an extra dot up, extra SS procs etc and damage :P

[Nykezs]

The damage is classed as friendly fire and doesn't contribute to overal damage done. I also believe, due to that, it doesn't give more SS procs. Based on what i've seen for the past few weeks.

It's also a waste of GCDs you could spend on dotting up any of the other adds up during the fight. and if anything you should already be swimming in SS procs so dotting up the direhorn is a waste of time.