1. #2061
    Deleted
    Each point is worth the same, the only "breakpoints" that you can talk about is where SS tick time becomes a multiple of a boss swing timer, i.e. for standard boss swing timer when SS reaches 4.5 or 3 second tick speed, but there are more things coming into play there like bosses aborting swing timers for casting spells etc totally screwing that up (hello empress)

  2. #2062
    But doesn't that look at it a bit stochastically? I mean, most bosses have abilities outside of normal melee that are not on their "melee GCD" if you will. Thinking things like Snapping Bite, Hard Stare, Trip Punc/Dire Call, etc. Sure, we'll have ShotR up for those anyway, but even if you're not on a swing timer multiple, the extra breakpoints will most likely buffer SOMETHING. No?
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  3. #2063
    i have issue with threat lately. when there's a tank swap i am often forced to just stand and do nothing, otherwise i aggro the boss back. misdirection helps a bit, but not enough. salvation is good, but only briefly and CD is long. anyone else has this problem?

  4. #2064
    Deleted
    That is why I put "" around 'breakpoints'. My personal opinion is that there are no breakpoints, simple as that, each point is worth the same.
    However others could consider there to be breakpoints like such as I described. If you for example would go from 4.51s to 4.49s in for example thecks simulations, you would notice a big difference, since it is in all sense and purposes a breakpoint for patchwerk 1.5s swing timer fights. But as you mentioned, boss abilities hold this to be false in real virtual world tanking.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 04:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zloitima View Post
    i have issue with threat lately. when there's a tank swap i am often forced to just stand and do nothing, otherwise i aggro the boss back. misdirection helps a bit, but not enough. salvation is good, but only briefly and CD is long. anyone else has this problem?
    How I often solved is it by casting salvation on my self, then going absolutely balls to the walls on threat, outthreat the crap out of that other tank. Then you just communicate, if you have three seconds left on HoSalv, just say "Okay, taunt in 3...2...1..." and problem solved.

  5. #2065
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Off topic: Trying to keep a straight face in the R&D forum is hard. It feels like I am back working at the kindergarden watching the kids argue over the swing set or which toy car is the fastest.
    It'd be better if they had more than one arguement of "ERMAHGERD BATTLE HEALER AND BOP OP NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF".

    That is why I put "" around 'breakpoints'. My personal opinion is that there are no breakpoints, simple as that, each point is worth the same.
    However others could consider there to be breakpoints like such as I described. If you for example would go from 4.51s to 4.49s in for example thecks simulations, you would notice a big difference, since it is in all sense and purposes a breakpoint for patchwerk 1.5s swing timer fights. But as you mentioned, boss abilities hold this to be false in real virtual world tanking.
    Breakpoints seem useful when you throw your SS on the other tank long enough for you to not want to refresh it because you lost your vengeance.
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2013-05-07 at 04:55 PM.

  6. #2066
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    How I often solved is it by casting salvation on my self, then going absolutely balls to the walls on threat, outthreat the crap out of that other tank. Then you just communicate, if you have three seconds left on HoSalv, just say "Okay, taunt in 3...2...1..." and problem solved.
    I do that too but it just adds extra talk in communication heavy fights. Isn't it more practical to just macro a /cancelaura Righteous Fury and then add /cast Righteous Fury on your Taunt macro?

  7. #2067
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    I do that too but it just adds extra talk in communication heavy fights. Isn't it more practical to just macro a /cancelaura Righteous Fury and then add /cast Righteous Fury on your Taunt macro?
    This is what I usually do along with salv

  8. #2068
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    I do that too but it just adds extra talk in communication heavy fights. Isn't it more practical to just macro a /cancelaura Righteous Fury and then add /cast Righteous Fury on your Taunt macro?
    Well yeah, but it gets to the point where the other tank learns when to taunt back so you dont really have to say it anymore. After a weeks raiding with my tank I never had to call out for a taunt back again. He knew when I was gonna overaggro, and hey, he got threat meters too. RF is still a wasted global that shouldnt need to be done, and if you get aggro for 1 hit refreshes your vengeance so it is good for dps aswell.

  9. #2069
    Ya'll need to get better co-tanks!

    I tank with a BrM, and we both parse highly so it's not like either of us are slacking really. I agree that RF is a wasted GCD; what I usually do when he has to/does taunt is 1st refresh SS (to preserve vengeance levels) on myself or him, then 2nd salv (if needed), and finally bank up 5 HoPo.

    This does 3 things: Keeps a good sized SS rolling on someone, gives 2-4 zero-to-low threat GCDs for him to LOLKEGSMASH (broken ass threat), and gets me to a full tank of HoPo to play off of for when the swap comes back to me.

    That, or just 1 tank damn near everything, and problem is also solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #2070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Ya'll need to get better co-tanks!
    This has more truth to it than most of us realize. My "broken ass threat" is not usually an issue when we co-tank, because we both have learnt how to hold aggro so that the other tank does not have to stop attacking - something which I don't agree with. A tank should not have to stop attacking just for the other tank to catch up.

  11. #2071
    Deleted
    RF doesn't cause a gcd anyway so you don't really lose anything by cancelling / reapplying.

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    RF doesn't cause a gcd anyway so you don't really lose anything by cancelling / reapplying.
    Salvation on the other hand does cost a gcd which might be a noticable dps loss when using it at full vengeance :P
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-05-08 at 01:59 AM.

  13. #2073
    cancelling RF seems like a best solution. just need not forget to recast it, maybe just macro it to the taunt, nothing bad about that, right?

    tried it out seems working fine. RF on with taunt and RF off on mouse wheel.
    Last edited by zloitima; 2013-05-08 at 04:51 AM.

  14. #2074
    What kind of uptime are you guys getting with fabled feather? 28.91% haste and at one point went thru 27 sparks of zandalar today before I got a feather proc. Seems nice when it procs but going anywhere from 30 seconds to over 2 minutes from a proc kinda sucks?

    NM had my auras set to ret only, doh.
    Last edited by Tax; 2013-05-08 at 08:20 PM.

  15. #2075
    Even though you edited, I'm seeing ~20% uptime. Depends on fight length (obv) as well as "did I just zone in, or did I get rezzed?" since RPPM timer resets based on those parameters.

    *Hint: Get rezzed if possible, as it guarantees a proc on the pull, and another proc right after.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  16. #2076
    Deleted
    Quick questions - we're having our first 25 man run through norm ToT this evening having been 10 man since start of cata..... what should i expect:

    trash: can i still go aoe nukey 1 tank all the trash before bosses without coming close to dying as we have been on 10 man? dont want to go splat on first pack as that would be embarrassing

    bosses: all the "tradtional" 1 tank bosses still 1-tankable on 25 man without any probs? (i.e. coucil / tortos / duru / iron / twins / lei shen)

    consumables: ok to use haste/armour elixirs still or should i pop a stam flask and stam trinket?

  17. #2077
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Quick questions - we're having our first 25 man run through norm ToT this evening having been 10 man since start of cata..... what should i expect:

    trash: can i still go aoe nukey 1 tank all the trash before bosses without coming close to dying as we have been on 10 man? dont want to go splat on first pack as that would be embarrassing

    bosses: all the "tradtional" 1 tank bosses still 1-tankable on 25 man without any probs? (i.e. coucil / tortos / duru / iron / twins / lei shen)

    consumables: ok to use haste/armour elixirs still or should i pop a stam flask and stam trinket?
    Most of the stuff is still one tankable, it gets a bit more tricky the higher you go but still possible

    Trash can be a bit more tricky, like some of the ones with a decent amount of burst may just demolish you since you have very little magic res

    As for consumables, I'd suggest you go with a Stam Flask and maybe Stam trinket(s) if you can afford to, at least for the first run through to avoid any sleepy healer related deaths, once everyone has seen the damage you should be safe to go back to normal until heroics start to kick in

    Also as a warning: don't be surprised if you struggle on some bosses you've already killed, 10 man can be a lot easier on some people and it can take a while to adjust to the new mindset, Ji-Kun especially can be very different
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-05-09 at 11:52 AM.

  18. #2078
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Most of the stuff is still one tankable, it gets a bit more tricky the higher you go but still possible

    Trash can be a bit more tricky, like some of the ones with a decent amount of burst may just demolish you since you have very little magic res

    As for consumables, I'd suggest you go with a Stam Flask and maybe Stam trinket(s) if you can afford to, at least for the first run through to avoid any sleepy healer related deaths, once everyone has seen the damage you should be safe to go back to normal until heroics start to kick in

    Also as a warning: don't be surprised if you struggle on some bosses you've already killed, 10 man can be a lot easier on some people and it can take a while to adjust to the new mindset, Ji-Kun especially can be very different
    Cheers for reply. fully expecting a shitstorm of wiping on first boss for 3 hours tbh. tis the way of things.

  19. #2079
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Cheers for reply. fully expecting a shitstorm of wiping on first boss for 3 hours tbh. tis the way of things.
    Haha, if you're anything like my guild you'll get cockblocked by Tortos because noone can kick straight xD

  20. #2080
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Haha, if you're anything like my guild you'll get cockblocked by Tortos because noone can kick straight xD
    Not as bad as I thought...Jin-kun was the one that had us wiping though

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