Lei Shen vs Lich King

[Golden Yak]

I think the Titan-fueled powers of Lei Shen would surpass the Lich King's demon-supplied powers. If it came down to martial skill though, Arthas is pretty dangerous with that sword of his. It'd be a close run thing, but I say Thunder King over Lich King.

[Sierra85]

Lich King easily, he'd suck up the Thunder Kings soul.

[Kazlofski]

Just to point out, Heroic Will of the Emperor with the real lore, Mogu construct machine with the catch that when you destroy a mogu, a titan spark spawns that is meant to blow up against armies of enemies once the Mogu is dead and kill dozens.

[Warpaladin]

If it wasn't for Tirion we would all be dead.. So Lich King > Lei Shen

[Wildberry]

Lei Shen internet defense force pls go...
Obviously the Lich King, the Mogu are titanic creations, remember the Vrykul? Let me point you to the Vargul...As far as armies go, Lei Shen has the Zandalari, the Mogu, and the Saurok + Misc. failed experiments, the Scourge has the Cult of the Damned, Frostwyrms, Flesh Giants, Vrykul (Of both the living and dead variety) Proto-Drakes, the Undead Plague, Hordes of Zombies, Death Knights, the list goes on...Basically, the Scourge, while most soldiers (aka just the zombies) wouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with a mogu, one on one atleast, have numbers, add in any Saurok and Zandalari casualties and things start looking really bad.

As far as Lei Shen vs Arthas. Lei Shen is a mortal warlord, yes he defeated Ra-Den, but at the time that happened, Ra-Den had already succumbed to despair (Hence the Mogu not hearing their masters voice any more) He also commands the power of Thunder and Lightning. The Lich King, however, has a Necromantic Runeblade Forged by the Burning Legion, Power over Death, and in all reality the only reason the Lich King fell was not because he was arrogant, that alone simply wouldn't have done it, rather it took the Warcraft Equivilent to "Divine Intervention" (A MIRACLE) to Stop him, and last time I checked, Lei Shen isn't a man of faith, nor does he have the Ashbringer, which is the only known thing (Only when empowered by the Light itself) that has the ability to Shatter Frostmourne.

[Shepherd57]

I am going to go with Lich King and here is my reasoning.

LK has shadow and frost magic at his disposal. Pure ice as probably produced by frost magic would be highly resistive to electrical attacks.

[kingriku]

Lich king would easily invade the Trolls with his undead army and raise oondasta and Horridon as undead minions, and lk would use the bugs to burrow a tunnel under leishens throne room and surprise him like in toc.

[Nagabane]

I am going to go with Lich King and here is my reasoning.

LK has shadow and frost magic at his disposal. Pure ice as probably produced by frost magic would be highly resistive to electrical attacks.

I enjoy the science behind this reasoning. Even more reason to support LK in this discussion. Although Lei Shen is kinda like a big blue Nikolai Tesla.

[kendro1200]

It didn't take a miracle to kill Lei Shen so he loses.

^This
The entirety of WotLK the Lich King was literally playing with the players and stroking his own ego and desperately trying to seek approval/justification for his actions. The Scourge unleashed would wipe out everything on Azeroth, yet he restrained it because a world full of undead isn't all that fun, but playing evil dungeon master provides entertainment. The Lich King simply overplayed his hand in assuming that within ICC the Light wouldn't be able to help anyone.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Arthas wins.

[Sierra85]

Arthas wins.

flawless victory?
fatality?

[Redmage]

Lei shen's armies being made of stone (mostly) and being immune to undeath would make it a hard fight for Arthas, one of the things that made the scourge such a bitch to kill was the fact that every champion that fell in battle was just one more for the scourge.

He could still turn the trolls and the dinos, and maybe the saurokes, hard to tell because they are artificial beings.

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 04:40 PM ----------

Lei Shen has Dinomancers. DINOMANCERS!

Which just means Arthas would have ZOMBIE DINOMANCERS!

[Skorpionss]

It didn't take a miracle to kill Lei shen.... this argument is kinda retarded considering we went up in power tremendously since we fought the lich king... We tackled the full power of Ragnaros in his own realm, we killed Deathwing's toes, we improved our gear tremendously, we got magical gems from Deathwing's son to fill our item's sockets we discovered powerful Pandarian artefacts... if we would face the lich king as we are now lorewise we'd roflstomp his sorry ass...

[Deleted]

I think the Lich King would win, if he doesn't keep the undead in check that is. As it's already been stated that without somebody to keep them in check, they would easily overwhelm everything.

Lei Shen on the other hand has a very strong empire, with great technology (Creating forms of life). But his empire fell a long time ago, and it's power is very limited in the present.

[Terahertz]

Don't underestimate how long it takes to re-animate a mogu though. Whenever you see those wizards/warlocks/animators or whatever they're called shape flesh, it usually takes awhile.

[Zechs-cenarius]

It didn't take a miracle to kill Lei shen.... this argument is kinda retarded considering we went up in power tremendously since we fought the lich king... We tackled the full power of Ragnaros in his own realm, we killed Deathwing's toes, we improved our gear tremendously, we got magical gems from Deathwing's son to fill our item's sockets we discovered powerful Pandarian artefacts... if we would face the lich king as we are now lorewise we'd roflstomp his sorry ass...

You are looking at it from a gameplay perspective. Lorewise not everyone would have "Heroic T15" armor. The fact that it didn't take a miracle to beat Lei Shen tells you that he was tough but not nearly as tough as deathwing nor Lich King. The fact that LK was toying with people and never really unleashed his true power speaks volumes. I mean you want to talk about gameplay aspects of this entire argument Lich King instant killed everyone around him at 10%. Lei Shen would be toast if he was even remotely close to the Lich King.

[Deleted]

Lich King, of course. His power is exponential and he never even used all of it against us. (Still destroyed the whole raid with one swing, though...)

Given time and ressources, he could probably defeat an old god all by himself.

[Zulkhan]

It didn't take a miracle to kill Lei shen.... this argument is kinda retarded considering we went up in power tremendously since we fought the lich king... We tackled the full power of Ragnaros in his own realm, we killed Deathwing's toes, we improved our gear tremendously, we got magical gems from Deathwing's son to fill our item's sockets we discovered powerful Pandarian artefacts... if we would face the lich king as we are now lorewise we'd roflstomp his sorry ass...

Deluded. The Lich King would still be able to roflstomp a MoP raid with Frostmourne's Fury. There's nothing like "lorewise" for all the things you mentioned that are only intended to keep involved the PvE players and have fun. Ragnaros was not worst of the Lich King, not even remotely, and still required a bit of external help for end him. Deathwing....well, we would be all dead in a magma-cannon-breath without the Dragon Soul, the Aspects and some flying ships.

Given time and ressources, he could probably defeat an old god all by himself.

Yeah, this is something that people tend to not consider. The Lich King's power was not a static one. Ironically death was the only thing that made him feel "alive" and elevated his power. With an Azeroth completely turned in armies of undead, he would be something even more terrific of the Lick King we faced on the Frozen Throne.

[Deleted]

Kil'jaeden in a full summoned state is more powerful of the Lich King, but not that sure that he would be of Deathwing too.

Kil'jaeden is probably more powerful than the Lich King, however upon the creation of the Lich King something happened that Kil'jaeden did not forsee. The Lich King's power grew exponentially without Kil'jaeden's knowledge. So who knows what the Lich King's power was after the merger with Arthas and some time building up his army. I guess Kil'jaeden is still more powerful, but it may not have been as much as some people think.

About Kil'jaeden and Deathwing. I'm convinced Deathwing is stronger. At the time of the War of the Ancients the Burning Legion even feared his Dragon Soul. And demons have never shown fear before. But while his power previously came from his Dragon Soul, at the time of Cataclysm Deathwing is supercharged by the Old Gods. And because of that he becomes on par with the power of the Dragon Soul itself, that's why the Dragon Soul is needed to even have a shot against him. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are strong, but not on that level. Archimonde walked Azeroth twice, but never caused a sundering like Deathwing has. And Kil'jaeden is physically weaker than Archimonde, he's more of a tactician and a schemer.

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 05:12 PM ----------

Yeah, this is something that people tend to not consider. The Lich King's power was not a static one.

This is true, The Lich King's power grew exponentially. Not even Kil'jaeden knew of this, even though he created the Lich King.

[Zulkhan]

Kil'jaeden is probably more powerful than the Lich King, however upon the creation of the Lich King something happened that Kil'jaeden did not forsee. The Lich King's power grew exponentially without Kil'jaeden's knowledge. So who knows what the Lich King's power was after the merger with Arthas and some time building up his army. I guess Kil'jaeden is still more powerful, but it may not have been as much as some people think.

Pretty much this. And even if Kil'jaeden was able to forsee it, that was not much of a threat, UNTIL the Lich King was able to gather a body. But Ner'zhul was a smart son of a **** and deceived the Deceiver, achiveing what Kil'Jaeden never considered possible to happen.
Many judge the Lich King's power based only on the fact that Kil'jaeden created him, but the eredar didn't give himself to the LK the powers he had. Probably he didn't have none on the beginning. These powers were gathered slowly but constantly as his army of undead grew.

About Kil'jaeden and Deathwing. I'm convinced Deathwing is stronger. At the time of the War of the Ancients the Burning Legion even feared his Dragon Soul. And demons have never shown fear before. But while his power previously came from his Dragon Soul, at the time of Cataclysm Deathwing is supercharged by the Old Gods. And because of that he becomes on par with the power of the Dragon Soul itself, that's why the Dragon Soul is needed to even have a shot against him. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are strong, but not on that level. Archimonde walked Azeroth twice, but never caused a sundering like Deathwing has. And Kil'jaeden is physically weaker than Archimonde, he's more of a tactician and a schemer.

Yeah, the way we engaged Deathwing was so unique that is easy to consider him some over-the-top enemy, and were necessary powers to destroy him that we'll never have anymore.