Mage Nerf

[The Small Hours]

Frost bolt needs a big pvp damage buff, 1.8 sec cast to see 14k (489ilvl pvp gear) damage on a 400K+ hp target in pvp is lol

[Deleted]

I don't think Jin'rokh is a fair comparison since ignite and combustion compound damage boosts like the pools more so than anything in frost.

At any rate, using top parses as justification is an incomplete picture, for either side, but even more so for fire when you haven't honestly represented the flip side of the rng coin; that impacts fire more so than frost. If you insist on using them though, I think this tells a better story:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...5H/Frost_Mage/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...25H/Fire_Mage/

As for the scaling issue, I'll say it again, I think if set bonuses focus more on frosts IL and FFB procs in T15, it won't be that hard to keep up without mangling how stats scale. This should be obvious from how strong 2 pc T14 was for frost. Mastery is underrated, tbh, for frost.

Pretty bad fight to compare imho. RNG, strat and gear playing a role here. But the most important thing here is, the more gear your raid get, the worse became your dps as a fire or frost mage.
Last night was the first night I played that encounter with NT, because the heads die so fast and the adds even faster. Heads dying fast is pretty bad for the fire mage and adds dying fast is pretty bad for the frost mage. Was the only encounter with an epic frost bomb feeling for me. Throwing frost bomb into 2 - 3 waves, with petnova on explosion for a very big shatter. Did over 220k dps in that night, but I will never do that again, even with ilvl 540 (maybe if I cheat dps with dotting the green head).

Frost scaling is worse and fire mage scaling is excellent. Just add 20k haste to your gear in simcraft, it will bring you more dps than 20k mastery. Add 20k haste, mastery or crit to your fire spec and you will see, the jump is enourmus compared to frost.

[Zavri]

In proper gear fire isn't all that rng. I usually end up chaining fireball + pyro, barely ever have only heating up with inferno blast on cd. The biggest rng i get right now is the meta not proccing at start, or not lining up with any combustion after the first. When you have 50%+ crit there's no real rng.

Outside of alter time, trying to get optimal combustions ( 70k+ ignite value ) is very rng.

[Csnyder]

Mage (Forums, Talent Calculator)
Frostbolt healing reduced by 13%.

Frost
Frostbolt damage reduced by 13%.





Thoughts?

your info is wrong, they were buffed by 15% and then nerfed by 13% leaving you with a 2% buff
plus it hasnt taken effect yet if at all, what are you talking about and why are you posting false info

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 04:54 PM ----------

Hi I'm frost and I beat fire mages.

hi im arcane and fire doesnt come close and frost is a joke

for one thing beating fire isnt impressive at all now, hope you dont think you are special, a hack frost can beat fire atm

[Deleted]

hi im arcane and fire doesnt come close and frost is a joke

for one thing beating fire isnt impressive at all now, hope you dont think you are special, a hack frost can beat fire atm

Hi, I call bullshit.

Played to full potential Fire is the best spec right now. Arcane is a close second, Frost an increasingly-distant third.

[Methusula]

I like how he tried to call out one of the best frost mages. Good show. Also, the 13% nerf is of the 115% so it ends up essentially cancelling out.

[Deleted]

your info is wrong, they were buffed by 15% and then nerfed by 13% leaving you with a 2% buff
plus it hasnt taken effect yet if at all, what are you talking about and why are you posting false info

Just to be clear. They just rchange it back to the actual SP coef. So what ever the number is, there's no change at all compared to 5.2.

[Cabrian]

You don't see more than 75-80 frost mages do well because they're not snapshotting NT correctly or using Alter Time optimally. I don't know much about fire, but either there are just better fire mages, or it isn't as costly if you screw up snapshots/AT.

Do you mean something other than re-applying DoTs during trinket procs here? am I missing something?

[Methusula]

Do you mean something other than re-applying DoTs during trinket procs here? am I missing something?

Trinket procs, meta procs, and when applicable, Shatter.

[Deleted]

Trinket procs, meta procs, and when applicable, Shatter.

See, the thing I find most stupid is that I never bother thinking about when I'm applying NT. So long as it's up, that's what's important. You will lose very little damage by just making sure NT is even on the boss, and surprisingly that's something a lot of people forget. Spending a global re-applying NT too early is a DPS loss because you're losing ticks and a global when you could have put that global into an extra cast with the increased Haste/Intellect from procs.

Yes, NT is our highest DPET spell across all three specs, but doesn't mean that it needs to constantly be snapshotted just because it's a little stronger. Shatter as Frost, definitely. Trinket/Meta procs? Depends.

[Deleted]

your info is wrong, they were buffed by 15% and then nerfed by 13% leaving you with a 2% buff
plus it hasnt taken effect yet if at all, what are you talking about and why are you posting false info

make 100 the starting value
buff 15% -> 100 * (1 + 0.15) = 115
nerf 13% -> 115 * (1 - 0.13) = 100.05

if you nerf 15% after a 15% buff, you get 97.75

the trick is that the nerf is acting % on a greater value

[Deleted]

make 100 the starting value
buff 15% -> 100 * (1 + 0.15) = 115
nerf 13% -> 115 * (1 - 0.13) = 100.05

if you nerf 15% after a 15% buff, you get 97.75

the trick is that the nerf is acting % on a greater value

Hey, Blizzard have never applied buff/nerf like this, they change the number by the new ones. The % value is calculated after for patch-note / datamining.
The new PTR SP scaling is exactly the same than on live.

[Polarthief]

With high-end gear fire is miles ahead in dps anyway. With enough gear arcane is viable and frost is actually the worst of all three when you are talking about high end gear.

That's because Haste and Crit cap so quickly, leaving Mastery, its WiS stat, the next, and only available option.

[Anix]

Don't nerf us

[mrgreenthump]

Talking abt nerfs.. the Flameglow nerf is hilarious. They should have upped the SP% and lowered the cap to 20%, but no lets lower the sp% to make even less usable in PvE.

And for those who don't know what's up:

We recently made a change on the 5.3 PTR to make it so that the max absorb value equals to 15% of the mages spellpower, but no more than 30% of the total damage of the incoming attack.

[voltaa]

Outside of alter time, trying to get optimal combustions ( 70k+ ignite value ) is very rng.

Now I don't know what your gear looks like, but this just isn't true, I find myself cursing in my head sometimes when after a combustion at about a 60-70k ignite, I get around a 100k ignite just from my basic rotation

Edit: since my actual point here may not be the clearest, once you get gear, even bad rng is good rng,, making rng more or less not a big deal as even with kinda bad rng youwon't plummet in deeps

[Ryoushi]

Outside of alter time, trying to get optimal combustions ( 70k+ ignite value ) is very rng.

Your DPS isn't murdered if you don't get that 70k+ ignite though, which seems to be what you're suggesting. Sure it hurts if your first pyro + FB in an intended Combustion chain don't crit, but that's when you get HS+HU again and try again. You should have near 60% pyro crit, if not more, if you're at a good gearlevel, meaning you crit plenty. I still get dry streaks like anyone else, but they're far less frequent, so their overall impact is a lot smaller. This is also why, as time goes on, the top logs aren't necessarily godly RNG, but rather good RNG with proper execution. As everyone gets more gear, RNG has less of an impact

[Akraen]

Hi, I call bullshit.

Played to full potential Fire is the best spec right now. Arcane is a close second, Frost an increasingly-distant third.

Both of you are wrong. Arcane outscales both. Frost isn't far off though.

[Zavri]

Your DPS isn't murdered if you don't get that 70k+ ignite though, which seems to be what you're suggesting. Sure it hurts if your first pyro + FB in an intended Combustion chain don't crit, but that's when you get HS+HU again and try again. You should have near 60% pyro crit, if not more, if you're at a good gearlevel, meaning you crit plenty. I still get dry streaks like anyone else, but they're far less frequent, so their overall impact is a lot smaller. This is also why, as time goes on, the top logs aren't necessarily godly RNG, but rather good RNG with proper execution. As everyone gets more gear, RNG has less of an impact

I'm not arguing that my dps isn't murdered by using combustion on less then 70k ignites. My overall point in all my posts is that I'm mainly just sick of the RNG nature of fire. It also makes target switching a royal pain in the ass if the target can't be cleaved.

I went arcane last week and I enjoy playing my mage now. I'll only go fire if the fight demands it for progression. ( Most likely Durumu )

[Reforge]

given good RNG, fire is absolutely hands down the dominant mage spec and always will be with the way its damage goes through the roof as you collect that crit gear. Until they change how the entirety of the spec pools its damage, there's no beating a fire mage that has been blessed by the RNG gods for a parse.