Aethas may not be so innocent after all (SPOILER)

[Bullettime]

It isn't an entire rewrite because it is only speculation on your behalf that a person cannot lie under sha posession.

Except every other victim we've ever seen possessed by the Sha became basically a living version of the emotion that was made manifest. They acted illogically and blindly, disregarding all other emotions and senses. Being able to lie while under Sha possession implies that the victim still has control over their thoughts while possessed, which has been shown many times this expansion that they don't.

You're disregarding everything we've seen and read in Pandaria regarding the Sha.

[delus]

Except every other victim we've ever seen possessed by the Sha became basically a living version of the emotion that was made manifest. They acted illogically and blindly, disregarding all other emotions and senses. Lying while under Sha possession implies that the victim still has control over their thoughts while possessed, which has been proven that they don't.

You're disregarding everything we've seen and read in Pandaria regarding the Sha.

No I'm not, If someone thinks happy thoughts while posessed by the sha, it is entirely possible that they might yell "I LIKE KITTENS AND RAINBOWS!" while beating everyone around them to a bloody pulp. We've never seen anyone who has tried that.

[Dreknar20]

Sha take certain emotions/thoughts and just amplify it 10 fold.

Take Ishi for example. He is a loyal Orc warrior. Yet when engulfed by Sha, he showed fear of death, and doubt of the Horde's chances of victory. Things he most likely would not show under more normal conditions.

[Bullettime]

The sha possess the body of the victim and latch onto anger. Their thoughts and actions become pure anger, unable to follow other thoughts and any logic. Their mind fixates on what makes them angry and they act. The orc warriors at the end of the 5.1 quest line where Garrosh is sending Sha into his elite. As Dreknar said, Ishi was a powerful and loyal blademaster and became possessed by fear, doubt, and anger. All logic and thought left his head and he became dominated purely by those emotions.

Or fear. Look at Grand Empress Shek'zeer. She was taken over by fear and suddenly was unable to comprehend any other thoughts or feelings. She was paranoia and fear incarnate and was the only emotion she could show and all of her actions were driven by fear. Lei Shi is another example.

Or hatred. The Yaungol at Hatred's Vice in Townlong were taken over by the Sha of Hatred and began to mindlessly and blindly slaughter each other over a piece of food.

When possessed by the Sha, the victim's minds are entirely taken over by that emotion. There's no thoughts or feelings except for the emotion(s) the Sha are feeding on. You BECOME the emotion itself. You don't get possessed by doubt and start coming up with ways to lie because your only thoughts ARE doubt.

[Spichora]

It isn't an entire rewrite because it is only speculation on your behalf that a person cannot lie under sha posession.

No he cant lie, when they are possessed by Sha of Anger (for instance) they cant say I am calm and I love you. Victim will obviously say I hate you and I am angry of you mother**cker Im gonna kill you. Thats how sha works. He blinds the mind of Victim.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 10:37 PM ----------

No I'm not, If someone thinks happy thoughts while posessed by the sha, it is entirely possible that they might yell "I LIKE KITTENS AND RAINBOWS!" while beating everyone around them to a bloody pulp. We've never seen anyone who has tried that.

They cant think of ANY other thoughts except the ones Sha has possessed.

[delus]

You are just assuming that it works like a truth serum and you can't lie under sha posession. We have never seen anyone with a reason to lie posessed by the sha.

[Bullettime]

You are just assuming that it works like a truth serum and you can't lie under sha posession. We have never seen anyone with a reason to lie posessed by the sha.

Because even if they did have a reason, they couldn't. The victim of the Sha of Anger would have their mind blinded entirely by anger. Or doubt. Or violence. Or hatred. You get the idea. They can't lie because lying implies that you have control of your own mind and thoughts to think of the lie, which the victims don't and never did in any incident where we've seen the Sha possess a victim. They became a blind living manifestation of an emotion while under their control. The victim will BECOME the emotion and essentially BECOME a Sha.

Multiple people now have said that and you're refusing to listen to anyone else who are telling you what has been written and shown in the game itself. That's why I stated you're essentially asking for a rewrite of the Sha just to make your point correct. They simply don't work in the way you're saying they do, proven by interaction with the Sha in the game itself.

[Deleted]

The Kirin Tor betrayed them as well,any form of trust was shattered with Kaels departure, they simply shouldn't have worked together, especially since the Grand Magister wanted to see them burn and Lor'themar was inclined to agree with him, if Sylvanas hadn't meddled there would hardly be blood elves in Dalaran.

Give me a plausible reason for Aethas to jeopardize all he worked for, all he stands for, all he wished for?

The Kirin Tor never betrayed the Sunreavers, don't know what you are talking about.

A reason why Aethas would jeopardize all that? Maybe because Garrosh gave him a good enough reason. Maybe he threatened to turn on the Blood Elves.

[Sky High]

this only shows that Aethas "MAY" have had a bigger hand in it, and the thing we are talking about here is Jaina accusing him of letting the horde move troops into Darnaseus, through Dalaran. which I already have to call BS on him not knowing what was going on.

[Spichora]

The Kirin Tor never betrayed the Sunreavers, don't know what you are talking about.

A reason why Aethas would jeopardize all that? Maybe because Garrosh gave him a good enough reason. Maybe he threatened to turn on the Blood Elves.

I wrote reason why he had done this on page 3.

[alt-ithist]

Delus may very well be short for Delusional. Just stop replying to him. On topic, I personally think he did know about it. Aethas isn't a Dalaran loyalist, he's a Silvermoon one and we may very well believe that he was acting in the best interest of his people. Maybe douche bag.... Err Garrosh threatened Silvermoon or he intended to convince regeant lord "table flipper" to keep the bell as a Blood Elves weapon.

[Dreknar20]

You are just assuming that it works like a truth serum and you can't lie under sha posession. We have never seen anyone with a reason to lie posessed by the sha.

People under Sha influence arnt exactly thinking clearly

[Zaelsino]

Aethas being in on it because he's secretly an evil monster out to help Garrosh's genocidal conquest of Azeroth would be horseshit and naked character derailment. Even Kael'thas's fall from grace made sense.

I think he'd make a great tragic enemy if they played this right, though. There are ways to make good people do bad things.

[Dreknar20]

Delus may very well be short for Delusional. Just stop replying to him. On topic, I personally think he did know about it. Aethas isn't a Dalaran loyalist, he's a Silvermoon one .

On the contrary I would think the opposite
Aethas was very proud of his relation ship of Dalaran, something that annoyed Rommath greatly

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 09:57 PM ----------

The Kirin Tor never betrayed the Sunreavers, don't know what you are talking about.

they stood by while the Alliance imprisoned them and slated them for execution

[Bullettime]

On the contrary I would think the opposite
Aethas was very proud of his relation ship of Dalaran, something that annoyed Rommath greatly

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 09:57 PM ----------


they stood by while the Alliance imprisoned them and slated them for execution

This. Aethas loved his people but he also had an incredible loyalty to Dalaran as well. Aethas certainly knew about the theft of the Divine Bell. As to why he didn't say anything is up to speculation. It's likely that Garrosh threatened Aethas and the Blood Elves or Aethas was waiting to use the thieves as a bargaining chip to Jaina/the Alliance, which is likely given Aethas wants the Blood Elves to leave the Horde. Unfortunately, Jaina traced it and went ape shit first before his plans could be revealed.

[Sky High]

This. Aethas loved his people but he also had an incredible loyalty to Dalaran as well. Aethas certainly knew about the theft of the Divine Bell. As to why he didn't say anything is up to speculation. It's likely that Garrosh threatened Aethas and the Blood Elves or Aethas was waiting to use the thieves as a bargaining chip to Jaina/the Alliance, which is likely given Aethas wants the Blood Elves to leave the Horde. Unfortunately, Jaina traced it and went ape shit first before his plans could be revealed.

there was mention that the Belfs were in talks about rejoining the allies, if Aethas was apart of the talks of rejoining then that turns this whole thing on it's side, man did that ever backfire. Wasn't Jaina pretty pissed off at the sunreavers when she became head of the Kirin'tor to begin with? I mean if Aethas wanted to rejoin the allies then that would have been A plan to go with, but it would be one hell of a gamble, and it obviously didn't turn out in his favor.

[Darmalus]

there was mention that the Belfs were in talks about rejoining the allies, if Aethas was apart of the talks of rejoining then that turns this whole thing on it's side, man did that ever backfire. Wasn't Jaina pretty pissed off at the sunreavers when she became head of the Kirin'tor to begin with? I mean if Aethas wanted to rejoin the allies then that would have been A plan to go with, but it would be one hell of a gamble, and it obviously didn't turn out in his favor.

Lorthemar himself was having secret talks with Varian when Jaina went apeshit.

[Bullettime]

Lorthemar himself was having secret talks with Varian when Jaina went apeshit.

This. They were private secret talks between the two leaders. Neither Aethas nor Jaina knew about them. Aethas also wanted to leave the Horde. He easily knew about the events, which is why he shifted uncomfortably, but could have been saving the details to use in his own negotiations. Jaina just found the details of everything first and the plan backfired.

Could have easily been a case of "I know who the loyalists are and I'll give you the traitors if you negotiate to bring us into the Alliance."

[Sky High]

Lorthemar himself was having secret talks with Varian when Jaina went apeshit.

I would say that perhaps when this is all over after Garrosh is dead the talks would renew, even though gameplay wise that would never allow the Blood elves to leave the horde.

[Zaelsino]

It would be pretty redundant at that point though, since Garrosh is the only reason he was considering leaving to begin with.