The next expansion can only be awesome. Agree?

[Glorious Leader]

Umm..but they do?
-CM modes award unique gear sets (casual doesn't mean a bad player, just less time, CMs are perfect for this)
- Scenarios award gear that can help you get into the first steps of raids, along with bonus reputation, and VP to purchase other gear with. Along with storylines, achievements.
- Pet Battles award achievements, unique pets if you do the challenge ones daily, and are a nice distraction, also awarding bonus tokens for more loot in LFR/raids.
- Transmogrification (and doing older raids for it) allows more customisation for your character.

As I said, just because the "rewards" aren't linked exclusively to raids, doesn't mean there aren't any. ALso, where again is it written that a casual plauer MUST have content linked exclusively to raiding? That's a blinkered viewpoint.

-CMS require groups of 5 to complete and can't be qued for. Casuals don't necessary have groups of 5's that are that good.
-Scenarios award crap. Period. Especially relative to what they got out of dungeons in wotlk and nic ata
- Pet battles award crap
- Xmog isn't a reward in itself, it's just character customization.

The real rewards, the real draw that people get from the game is character growth and development. The current game doesn't offer casual players enough of that. The developers are TRYING to get casual players off that fix but guess what? it's not working because their not fucking stupid. They spend the entire lvling experience progressing their characters, hit lvl 90 and want to continue doing that and then are told they aren't even good enough for a normal raid, here's some dog crap called lfr. Your not even good enough for normal.

Casuals aren't engaged because the game isn't engaging them and it isn't honestly designed to. It's isn't giving them any value in terms of either gear for their time and ultimately ego inflation for their time. The game doesn't make them feel awesome anymore to them because the aren't getting any satisfaction. The developers know they can't keep up the wheel though, addictive as it is and frankly I don't think they want to keep casual players on that wheel. They want to get them off it so they can save it for the 1% to keep their egos as inflated as possible. Well casuals aren't idiots like I said. They walked away and said no thanks to being insulted.

[nWoMATT125]

What you wrote there is a lie. Please don't lie.

its true read the whole announcement and not the only 1 part about how meny sub was lost

[Morngrim]

it isn't so much the content that is making this expansion a bad experience, but the complete lack of people to play with due to the server being a wasteland, and the highest ranking guild has 1/13 H.

someone save turalyon

US or EU, because US is actually a decent server with Supermassive at world 74th and 20 guilds at 1/13 HM or above

[Osmeric]

On your server you mean then? Tons of guild have reached 13/13HC now:P

In NA/EU, a total of 47 guilds are 13/13HC right now.

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 08:14 PM ----------

its true read the whole announcement and not the only 1 part about how meny sub was lost

No, you are wrong. They never said 1.3 M were lost in China. They said the MAJORITY of the 1.3M net loss was in Asia/China.

[Glorious Leader]

You really are drawing a lot of conclusions here, from not much evidence. We don't know *why* people have quit playing WoW, only Blizzard does, and even then, it's usually conjecture (unless they are nice enough to fill out a survey).
Your arguments of the rewards being "crap" are again, self-originated, what is "crap" to one person, is actually delightful to another, just because you may not enjoy a pet battle reward or a pet etc, doesn't mean others do not.
True about the CMs, but with all honesty, it isn't hat hard to use various communication tools to find a group to do so, or are you drawing conclusions that casual players are anti-social loners without a guild?
Your placing a lot of personal feeling into what you feel the game *should* be, and trying to apply it to a larger playerbase, then claiming it as fact, which accurate. Your argument also falls flat when Original WoW, BC, and then Wrath had progressively higher sub numbers, with them only really declining sharply with Cata launch. However, I distinctly remember BC and original WoW being incredibly UN-friendly for the "casual" player, with limited options and things on offer, yet it was still successful?

As it stands, as I said before, there is a wealth of options now, more than ever, and plenty of things to do. Your just assuming the whole purpose of WoW is raiding, and ego, which isn't the case for many players at all.

Actually we do know why people have quit playing. They said casuals aren't engaged. Well if the content they have created isn't engaging casuals BUT others like hardcores are being engaged we should ask ourselves what is it about the hardcore content that is engaging those players? A wealth of options is meaningless if they don't actually engage the player and provide him with enough reward. Ego is the central reward value in this game. People don't play it because it's like working at McDonalds (which dailies feel very much like doing) they play it be a hero and forget about their day at work and basically escape.

[Gimlix]

Actually we do know why people have quit playing. They said casuals aren't engaged. Well if the content they have created isn't engaging casuals BUT others like hardcores are being engaged we should ask ourselves what is it about the hardcore content that is engaging those players? A wealth of options is meaningless if they don't actually engage the player and provide him with enough reward. Ego is the central reward value in this game. People don't play it because it's like working at McDonalds (which dailies feel very much like doing) they play it be a hero and forget about their day at work and basically escape.

Casuals don't like to do anything, They loved Cataclysm.
Just sitting around in SW/Org doing nothing, while nowadays you gotta move your ars if you wanne get something x)

[Glorious Leader]

Casuals don't like to do anything, They loved Cataclysm.
Just sitting around in SW/Org doing nothing, while nowadays you gotta move your ars if you wanne get something x)

Cataclysm as not doing nothing. Neither was wotlk. They spent an hour or two here or there when they could and got a piece of gear or two in that time when they could. They weren't asked to "move their ars" to get somethign which I take to mean run out and do dailies which are tedious, unrewarding, unfulfiling, solo activities. You know that's another thing to this whole obsession the developers have with being out in the world is so fucking stupid. It's not actually being out in the world cause it's immersive, which it still isn't, it's just be inconvenienced to get out there for little to no gain. The developers constantly chasing fucking ghosts. Give it up.

---------- Post added 2013-05-12 at 08:52 PM ----------

Umm...we don't know. That's the point i am getting. Your assuming, and drawing it as a fact. No one knows the reasons why people have stopped playing, and to suggest that for example, the drop in 1.3 mil subs is down to one thing is ludicrous. The reasons will be as varied as you can imagine, and whilst some may feel "unengaged" others might be incredibly happy with the product but just felt it was time to move on. The game is 8 years old, of course there will be drop off.

Your again drawing another conclusion that the whole reason to *play* this game is down to ego and reward, which again, is assuming a lot. Many people might play because they like the lore, the game itself, because their friends play, because its the only MMO game that works on their PC, the reasons are varied and huge. Your just trying to pigeon hole it into your own viewpoint, which I am sorry, is completely wrong.

Point being, the only people that may have a clue about why people leaving is BLizzard and Blizzard alone, through exit surveys and observing of trends through data. We do not have that, so whilst we can make (semi) educated guesses, everything we have is speculation and conjecture, to claim otherwise is ludicrous.

Theirs no assumption. Casuals are not engaged. The game is not designed to engage them. If you take the rewards that keep hardcores engaged and apply them to a setting appropriate for casuals they will be engaged to.

Their is no assumption to any of this. It's all right there if you actually read and understand how game psychology works. The reason anyone plays a game is ultimately escapism.

[Durandro]

I suppose I have to come in yet again and say the majority of the sub losses were in China. So whatever the reason, its irrelivent to the rest of us.

Likely the reason they all quit is due to how they pay for WoW - essentially paying per minute. A bunch of Free To Play games popped up all across Southeast Asia, and they all switched to that instead. Simple explaination.

It doesn't mean MoP 'failed', or casuals are leaving, or hardcores are leaving. It means the Chinese market changed.

THAT'S IT.

[Deleted]

What do you think?

Well, the next expansion will easily be more fun than MoP because MoP is the worst piece of shit I've ever seen. Yes, I even prefer Cataclysm to MoP.

I wouldn't expect subscriptions to go back to 10 million or higher though, that's a bit too much. Subscriptions will continue to drop for a while.

[Glorious Leader]

Well, the next expansion will easily be more fun than MoP because MoP is the worst piece of shit I've ever seen. Yes, I even prefer Cataclysm to MoP.

You and me both brother. You and me both. If you said that at launch though ohhh the fanboys drowned you out so much. Now it should be plainly obvious that it is in fact total and utter crap.

[pmgbro]

This whole MoP "detour" has been complete garbage. Once again they create brilliant ideas with hilariously bad execution. LFR being able to obtain legendaries drops is just the beginning of the end. No guild cauldrons, no 300 stat feasts, having to grind pointless charms every week because it's required in guilds that are even remotely decent at this game, and scenarios are waste of design. They didn't give us more content, they gave the artificial feeling of actually having content with gated dailies, pet battles, and useless scenarios no one even does.

I predict Garrosh will have tentacles coming out of him most likely because if anyone ever goes mad it isn't because they are actually a villian. It's usually because of blizzard tentacle fetish porn with the old gods.

[Mirishka]

Wow, that's some anger you got there. Rather misplaced too, considering the concept of space travel and other worlds has been solidly established since Warcraft 2. How would it be 'raping' (and let's try to avoid using that word, please) Warcraft if he used a concept that has been in the franchise for years? Decades, even.

Agreed. I pretty much auto-file people who use that word to describe having issues with or accomplish something under 'unthinkably stupid dumbass.'

Spend some time in prison and have a guy twice your size decide you're his new girlfriend, and then let me know if that's the word that comes to mind when you're mad at a video game.

[deviantcultist]

We have south seas, ocean and emerald dream. All come with their own, well-made lore.
Not a whole expansion of spacegoats and other abominations of lore.

Just because it doesn't go letter to letter with ancient lore of the 90s, it doesn't mean its an abomination of lore. So please, be open-minded and do not criticize anything that is not 100% compatible to traditional lore.

[Mirishka]

You and me both brother. You and me both. If you said that at launch though ohhh the fanboys drowned you out so much. Now it should be plainly obvious that it is in fact total and utter crap.

Or perhaps what's obvious is that you have your opinion and other people have theirs. I love MoP: I don't categorize people who dislike the expansion as retards/idiots/whatever, so show a little maturity and don't categorize people who enjoy it as anything but people who enjoy it. Thank you.

[Frozenbeef]

you are feeling very sleepy..it would be a shame if anything started playing up in the emerald dream again..especially with it's most senior guardian now severely weakened :P

[Trickname]

It will be the same as every other expansion to date...

Pre release: Best thing ever

During: Worst move Blizzard ever made

Next expansion: The previous expansion was the best thing ever

[quras]

Next expansion: The previous expansion was the best thing ever

Sadly that is something mop and cataclysm will never have a title of. Best thing ever.

Even after multiple more expansion. They might not always rank as bad as they do now since other expansion could suck even more.

[Deleted]

I just wanna point something out for the people going ''lalala all sub drops were in Asia lalala doesn't affect me lalala'' well..for one they only said most sub drops were in Asia, that could be 51% of the sub drops and for two, the great majority of the subs are in Asia so it's only logic that most of the subs lost came from there.

[Crashdummy]

I suppose I have to come in yet again and say the majority of the sub losses were in China. So whatever the reason, its irrelivent to the rest of us.

Likely the reason they all quit is due to how they pay for WoW - essentially paying per minute. A bunch of Free To Play games popped up all across Southeast Asia, and they all switched to that instead. Simple explaination.

It doesn't mean MoP 'failed', or casuals are leaving, or hardcores are leaving. It means the Chinese market changed.

THAT'S IT.

The mayority of subs ARE in China, so if you loss subs, its vfery likely the mayority will be from there.

If a cataclysm wipes 1/4 of the worlds population in a uniform distribution of life losses, which country do you think woulod lose more people? China.

Also, mayority =/= all. NA and EU lost subs too.

MoP is failing hard, harder than Cataclysm.

Dailies, no more dungeons, making the game for hardcores with huge grind, stupidly hard raids, etc, all thing that made several of my friends (not from China) quit.