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  1. #581
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I was a 25 man wrath raider.
    Finally see one! Would you have your armory so we can see when the achivements were done? I'm trully interested in seeing the dates because all the others I see got the wrath achivements months and months later when the tiers were no longer current raiding and would be really taken back by a previous 25 man raider thinking 10 normla now is hard!

    I mean hell If I didn't have a link between my forum name and my armory I guess I could say "I'm a hard core player" at a whim as well!

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    I've yet to see a 25 man wrath raider say normals are too hard. However 10 man wrath raiders that say 10 man is too hard now are a dime a dozzen!
    Given how much more popular 10man raiding is, even in the Wrath days, maybe that should tell you something.

  3. #583
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Because it's mechanical difficulty, not numerical.

    i.e. most players are up against their ability to remember and react. Can't be overcome with "effort".
    yet that is exactly what that group did! They have what is traditionally considered really bad raiders! Here is the WOL they provided... look at the dps they were pushing on there previous best attempt


    Hell look at there warr as fury / arms hes still gemming pure strengh in red sockets > crit strengh ..hell has a full blue hit gem when way over hit cap...etc etc yet still got horridon dead!




    How again is players like this getting the current tier bosses dead overtuned?
    Last edited by Elysia; 2013-05-16 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Being stuck behind horridon for a month has kindof nuked this tier for very many raiders (and these are the ones who made it through T14. )

    Shits overtuned, matey.
    My Wrath guild was stuck on Putricide for longer than this, and on Valithria for almost as long.

    Were these overtuned? Or did our group just need to get better.

  5. #585
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Given how much more popular 10man raiding is, even in the Wrath days, maybe that should tell you something.
    maybe you didn't understand me..

    todays 10 normal =/= wrath 10! Todays 10 are equivalent to wraths 25 man normals thus if you didn't do those as current content your view on 10 normal will be off if comparing today to WOTLK. Hell many don't even seem to remember DS pre nerf and only remeber how easy it was at the end!

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    Finally see one! Would you have your armory so we can see when the achivements were done? I'm trully interested in seeing the dates because all the others I see got the wrath achivements months and months later when the tiers were no longer current raiding and would be really taken back by a previous 25 man raider thinking 10 normla now is hard!

    I mean hell If I didn't have a link between my forum name and my armory I guess I could say "I'm a hard core player" at a whim as well!
    You can look me up (same name, lvl 90 paladin). The guild I was in at the time was unexceptional, and didn't finish Ulduar or ICC (on normal mode). It fell apart at the end of Wrath. After that I have not done any guild raiding on any character. The guild hopping & application process turns me off now, so I doubt I will personally be doing any normal mode raids even if they are nerfed.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  7. #587
    High Overlord Grunhither's Avatar
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    No.

    End of story.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    Todays 10 are equivalent to wraths 25 man normals
    No, they're much harder. Maybe you could point me to the MoP equivalent of Ulduar's first boss (the vehicle fight)?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #589
    Guild break ups always happen. Maybe a little more when content is longer and much more challenging but things like this constantly occur. Also as other people mention, time will always wear people out as they tend to stop after playing the game for a long period of time.

  10. #590
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, they're much harder. Maybe you could point me to the MoP equivalent of Ulduar's first boss (the vehicle fight)?
    Jin rohk?

    shit that was esay!

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    Jin rohk?

    shit that was esay!
    Pretty sure that's not as easy as Loot Leviathan.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  12. #592
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You can look me up (same name, lvl 90 paladin). The guild I was in at the time was unexceptional, and didn't finish Ulduar or ICC (on normal mode). It fell apart at the end of Wrath. After that I have not done any guild raiding on any character. The guild hopping & application process turns me off now, so I doubt I will personally be doing any normal mode raids even if they are nerfed.
    So current normal raiding was too hard for you in wotlk and current normal modes are still to hard for you years later? Nothing really more to see other than some one that wants the game easyer > trying to figure out what they can do to get bettre!5621 posts on these forums could have been used to askign questions and getting good information > stating things are too hard and wanting it nerfed!

  13. #593
    I think MoP overall has taken a heavy toll on most guilds - not because of LFR (which people tend to blame) but mostly because of the obnoxious grinds and gating, causing people to get all burnt out. From what I've seen on my guild, and my server as a whole, the problem we're facing right now is lack of consistent numbers, rather than a high difficulty setting - which in turn slows progress down, and causes people to be even less interested.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    So current normal raiding was too hard for you in wotlk and current normal modes are still to hard for you years later? Nothing really more to see other than some one that wants the game easyer > trying to figure out what they can do to get bettre!5621 posts on these forums could have been used to askign questions and getting good information > stating things are too hard and wanting it nerfed!
    Yes, of course you wanted to know that for the ad hominem dismissal. I should have known you would do that.

    As I stated, I'm not going to do normal mode raids, even if nerfed, so obviously nerfing them isn't for me. Can you at least learn to read before launching into your character assassination routine?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #595
    What would you have them do? How would you suggest Blizzard improve the raiding scene?
    I would go back to the WoTLK model with 10 mans being a little easier than they are now, 25 normal being how the normals are now, 10 man heroic being a bit harder and 25 heroic being for the upper echelon of raiders or the .50%

    The reason is so that everyone can do what they want. Lets face it many not so great raiders could still do normal 10 mans in WotLK, the people a bit above them but still not elite talents could do heroic 10 mans or normal 25s if they could get the group together, and the big boys could play where the big boys have always played... 25 heroics.

    Keep Lfr if you want for the unwashed masses, people that use serpent sting as a focus dump or whatever. But there seems to be a decent amount of people that like the "beer league" type of raiding. Why not give it to them and as they progress there, if it wets thier whistle for a bit more of a challenge and they want to step up they can do the work and try to move up to your level of raiding.

    I have yet to see a valid reason why any elite raider would care if there was a "beer league" type raid difficulty? (beer league being doable by competent raiders that just dont min/max and spend hours on test dummies or reforging to get every 1dps out of something they can) IMO it just benefits the raiding scene as a whole as opposed to hurting it. The elite raiders can scoop the top off the 10 man beer league people and have decent if not perfect raiders to groom for heroics?

    Just my 2cents

  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    My Wrath guild was stuck on Putricide for longer than this, and on Valithria for almost as long.

    Were these overtuned? Or did our group just need to get better.
    optional endwing boss putricide with a stacking debuff that made him easier every few weeks compared to boss no 2 in tot that#s just crashed thosands of guilds?

    lol

  17. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Short answer for the OP: yes, difficulty is the problem.

    They really need to find out who Mr. Hardcore is making the design decision and hand him a pink slip. I fear it may be Morhaime himself.
    I have a problem with people that think ToT normal mode is at all difficult or "hardcore". Nearly all the encounters have irrelevant berserks or soft enrages that can easily be made by people mashing buttons of their respective class. Maybe we are confusing "casual" with "bads" again, I'm not sure, but ToT normal mode is tuned perfectly for the player that knows what they are doing in a raiding environment while not adding the buckets of stress that comes from heroic raiding.
    There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
    Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
    Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
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  18. #598
    What is doing our guild in is the gearing up time for new people. It takes more than a week to get ready for Tot, so finding replacements is hard.

    The changes with 5.3 where you get gear superior to LFR in heroic scenarios or challange modes is a step in the right direction (not so sure about the ilevel requirement though).

  19. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Yet again, we see the "people could do this if they just became different". They're not replacing people (or jumping to new guilds) for reasons. You are, once again, saying their reasons for not doing what you want them to are invalid.
    And it's insulting in the extreme to talk about other players like that. The assumption being made is that well these people just lack the will/balls/intestinal fortitude to complete it and if they just revolved their lives around it and furthermore adopted some puritan work ethic about the game they'd be fine. It's absolutely insulting. It's basically saying look you guys are lazy that's all it is. It's patronizing in the extreme. This community foul rotten.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #600
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Yes, of course you wanted to know that for the ad hominem dismissal. I should have known you would do that.

    As I stated, I'm not going to do normal mode raids, even if nerfed, so obviously nerfing them isn't for me. Can you at least learn to read before launching into your character assassination routine?
    So when we say its fine and tuned normally as peopel that are progressing on normal modes that will probably be done the normal encounters around the time the tier ends or maybe a bit before (We killed Sha for the first time 3 weeks prior to 5.2) we are elitest that don't know what we are talking baout and it's overtuned.

    When you point out some one that never did normal raiding and dose not do normal raiding content is a bad jugde of what normal difficulty should you you are a charecter assasin?

    So it's ok for you to be judge nad jury even though you never have and don't focus on normal raids but us that do focus on normal raids that don't try and be Heroic raiders are wrong?

    /mindblown

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