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  1. #201
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Agreed, while mage burst is high - my complaint about mages has always been about their level of control - not their actual damage. Their damage occurs over too small a window - while your opponent is stunned and unable to respond. A more visible / counter-able burst cycle, and reduced control - would be a far better solution to fmages than the Incanter's Ward change.
    hmm as a hypothetical ; how would you feel if their shatter dmg came from chill slows instead of nova's - and player nova turned into a chill effect? leaving them with just pet nova.. just curious.

    i guess my underlying point is; atm people are playing against them so poorly that control has taken a back seat to the dmg.

    i honestly feel less in control and more of a sudden death machine with my mage than i did in cata which is why i hate playing it. it wasn't long ago that we had fireblast stun / cone of cold nova and instant RoF. AND.. RoF didnt DR with deep and poly ^^.

    THAT was control, bebeh.

  2. #202
    Mages can kill you in 1 Deep. But only if you let them !

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxina View Post
    Mages can kill you in 1 Deep. But only if you let them !
    Well, I can trinket 25% of deeps. Or, I guess, I can cloak and a mage will feel obligated to deep into the cloak, according to a lot of posts in this thread.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Well, I can trinket 25% of deeps. Or, I guess, I can cloak and a mage will feel obligated to deep into the cloak, according to a lot of posts in this thread.
    Exactly. You can trinket 25% of them, your partner can trinket another 25% of them, and unless your partner is terribad at the game neither of you would die in either of those, so that leaves 50% of deeps that you need to either defensive coolie, or stop the mage's pressure during the deep - which is not hard at all, unless your team, again, is horrible.

    And if you're talking about 1v1, mages get destroyed by many classes in duels, so that's not quite the same either. Everyone always assumes you're fighting a mage 1v2 or 1v3, where you have 0 support to defend against burst that you can pinpoint to almost the exact 5 second window it will occur.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Exactly. You can trinket 25% of them, your partner can trinket another 25% of them, and unless your partner is terribad at the game neither of you would die in either of those, so that leaves 50% of deeps that you need to either defensive coolie, or stop the mage's pressure during the deep - which is not hard at all, unless your team, again, is horrible.

    And if you're talking about 1v1, mages get destroyed by many classes in duels, so that's not quite the same either. Everyone always assumes you're fighting a mage 1v2 or 1v3, where you have 0 support to defend against burst that you can pinpoint to almost the exact 5 second window it will occur.
    Why would the mage Deep the guy with a trinket up, after he just got someone to use their trinket in his last deep? No, people are assuming that its 2v2 or 3v3, and the mage has the capability to CC 2 people at the same time, maybe even 3, without the help of HIS partners and can do enough damage to kill a target in a deep WITHOUT his partners.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Exactly. You can trinket 25% of them, your partner can trinket another 25% of them, and unless your partner is terribad at the game neither of you would die in either of those, so that leaves 50% of deeps that you need to either defensive coolie, or stop the mage's pressure during the deep - which is not hard at all, unless your team, again, is horrible.
    Again, apparently there is nothing else worth trinketing besides deep when you play against a godcomp. And again, mages clearly have no other cc to stop teammate peels. I mean comeon, my warrior has so many ways of stopping a mage whenever I want since im totally immune to roots/sheep/ring.

  7. #207
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Exactly. You can trinket 25% of them, your partner can trinket another 25% of them, and unless your partner is terribad at the game neither of you would die in either of those, so that leaves 50% of deeps that you need to either defensive coolie, or stop the mage's pressure during the deep - which is not hard at all, unless your team, again, is horrible.

    And if you're talking about 1v1, mages get destroyed by many classes in duels, so that's not quite the same either. Everyone always assumes you're fighting a mage 1v2 or 1v3, where you have 0 support to defend against burst that you can pinpoint to almost the exact 5 second window it will occur.
    Get stuck in a deep whilst your partner is cc'ed and get KO'd by 100k Frost Bombs and you're automatically a bad player, nice logic, bro! I can't believe people are actually defending a Mage's damage, there is no defense, no l2p or anything. If you think there is then I suggest you check out mitchjones' stream where at 2.5k rating he can occasionally say "going hard on x" and then a few seconds later say "x is dead". He even gets reactions from his partners saying "wth did you just do to that guy" or "balanced class" etc etc.

    It's always funny how when [insert non Mage class here] has op damage they are nerfed near enough straight away, normally with an overnerf to make them borderline useless but even though Mages have pretty much the same damage or slightly less they are never targeted with anything big, if anything at all.
    Last edited by TJ; 2013-05-15 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Exactly. You can trinket 25% of them, your partner can trinket another 25% of them, and unless your partner is terribad at the game neither of you would die in either of those, so that leaves 50% of deeps that you need to either defensive coolie, or stop the mage's pressure during the deep - which is not hard at all, unless your team, again, is horrible.

    Lol. There is no other defensive coolie that is the whole point. See, that's the joke. Half of them are unanswered, and really more than that. It's entirely possible for a mage to be in a position where the deeped person's teammate can't help, even without actually him in a sheep or an allie's CC. Sometimes a root or snare is adequate for this.

    And also- the mage has a teammate. In 3s he has (wait for it) TWO of them!

    And if you're talking about 1v1, mages get destroyed by many classes in duels, so that's not quite the same either. Everyone always assumes you're fighting a mage 1v2 or 1v3, where you have 0 support to defend against burst that you can pinpoint to almost the exact 5 second window it will occur.
    Actually, most of this thread's mage apologists is mages pretending they have no teammates who can either damage a deeped target, prevent heals from landing on a deeped target, or if nothing else prevent the deeped target's teammate from screwing with the maseg.

  9. #209
    I am Murloc! Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    but the one thing that will get me to unsub is class favoritism.
    Join the rest of the millions.

    In all seriousness, mage favoritism has been going on for a long long long time.

  10. #210
    Most of this thread is full of people who get their posts deleted off of the wow forums because all they do is complain about how blizz favors mages and nerfs everyone else over and over.


    TL;DR - Buff mages.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Mages have always been favored by GC. Noxxic rankings for DPS has all 3 specs in the top 5 for most of the gear level rankings.

    Its burns me all the time when I think about it.

    In PvP they have stupid amounts of control.
    Don't listen to noxxic's poor dps calculations. Look at actual parses like on raidbots.com. Warlocks and unholy dk at top, followed by fire mage, yes. but frost and arcane are toward the bottom. Most pvp mages play frost.

    DPS doesn't necessarily mean BURST either.

  12. #212
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Most of this thread is full of people who get their posts deleted off of the wow forums because all they do is complain about how blizz favors mages and nerfs everyone else over and over.


    TL;DR - Buff mages.
    Truth hurts?

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxina View Post
    Mages can kill you in 1 Deep. But only if you let them !
    Cant do that while stunned. Not every class is overpowered and has a 15s stun break. In fact Blizzard should remove the root and stun break from Blink, then see how much mages like Deep Freeze damage. Half the problem is the overpowered fucks have an overpowered ability to counter their own overpowered burst.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Cant do that while stunned. Not every class is overpowered and has a 15s stun break. In fact Blizzard should remove the root and stun break from Blink, then see how much mages like Deep Freeze damage. Half the problem is the overpowered fucks have an overpowered ability to counter their own overpowered burst.
    I really do think that one class absolutely ignoring stuns is kind of strange. There's a lot of stun defenses in the game, but blink has remained ludicrously good this whole time.


    I think it's amazing that some guy is telling me I should "blow a defensive"? WHAT DEFENSIVE? i'm a rogue. There's plenty of specs that can't do anything in a stun. I can't cloak when stunned. I normally get shit on through feint (-30% damage taken), which is not trivial to keep up with enough duration that it will last through a deep. I can't evasion or readiness (if I have it) through a stun, and it wouldn't help me against a mage if I could. I can't vanish through a stun, or interrupt, or blind. And honestly, mages aren't the only class that stuns, and it's totally fine that rogues can't /lol at stuns. But this isn't a rogue problem. MOST classes are boned in a stun, which is probably intended. So how about we fix the one stun that dramatically ups dps during its timeframe?

  15. #215
    As a windwalker, I have a boatload of ways to counter a frost mage. But last night playing against a mage/priest in twos with my resto druid partner, I still eventually came up against a deep freeze I couldn't avoid and it killed me. My partner was PoM-sheeped, and had trinketed a Dominate Mind earlier.

    I can Nimble Brew one.
    I can trinket a second (if I dont use trinket saving my partner).
    I can Diffuse Magic just before deep for a third sometimes.
    I can even Paralyse the mage as his Deep Freeze goes off.

    That's far more ways to avoid Deep Freezes consistently than most classes have, but eventually there is going to be one where you have just run out of outs, and your partner is CC'd or unable to stop it as well. I'm not saying Mages are too good even against WW 1v1 because I certainly have the advantage. I'm saying that when you get caught in a single unmitigated Deep Freeze as any class, you will die 100 to 0, and that is the problem.

    It could be just that burst is too high in general for all classes, but you can't really argue that historically Mages have not garnered a high amount of protest from the PvP community in really every season. They have always been a strong class, especially against certain comps. Sometimes factors just push them over the line into overpowered (like original frost bomb), and Blizzard reins them in slightly. Deep freeze is only so strong because of the 100% crit chance and the fact that they have CC on demand for a second target with Polymorph, Counterspell, or now Frost-Jaw

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    Play a mage, before you complain about them.
    I`m playing and preffer it over mine hunter
    But after all all classes gets brusts nerf its a time mages to take someone also + pvp power nerf maybe that will be enough i hope to be coz now we all wait the bloody patch because of your OP brust which blizard cant decide what to do to not drop you from the top 5 in PvE (why they dint think soo much for hunters in that way)

  17. #217
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    I'm finding playing a lock is easyier and funner than mage. Both 90 mage full season 13 gear ,lock full Malvo

  18. #218
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I'd say warlocks, rogues, and hunters are miles more annoying than mages. It's easy to get a mage to sit still after you blow their escape mechanics. Rogues and hunters have escape mechanics on TOP of escape mechanics, and warlocks just smash for too damn much.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I'd say warlocks, rogues, and hunters are miles more annoying than mages. It's easy to get a mage to sit still after you blow their escape mechanics. Rogues and hunters have escape mechanics on TOP of escape mechanics, and warlocks just smash for too damn much.
    Blink has a lower cooldown than disengage, and hunters don't have roots or Ice Block, so I'm not sure what you mean.
    Rogues I can agree with.

  20. #220
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    Blizz are happy to leave classes useless for months, but not mages it seems.

    They *are* biased for some inexplicable reason. Admittedly there are too many interrupts which makes playing a mage hard, but that just means there are too many interrupts. It doesn't justify the class being OP.

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