1.3 million sub drop

[cabyio]

Go back and read the posts from those who have left... then u will get a more accurate idea of why so many have left.

Ummm... No you won't. Even if you found 100 separate people on here that recounted why they stopped playing, that is still 100 out of 1.3 mil, or more if they left before this last quarter. 100 out of millions is not even close to enough data to make any kind of conclusion, not to mention that just taking accounts from one fan site forums is biased as well.

If you don't know what your talking about, please shut up.

[Pann]

Ummm... No you won't. Even if you found 100 separate people on here that recounted why they stopped playing, that is still 100 out of 1.3 mil, or more if they left before this last quarter. 100 out of millions is not even close to enough data to make any kind of conclusion, not to mention that just taking accounts from one fan site forums is biased as well.

If you don't know what your talking about, please shut up.

There are common trends that keep appearing when people mention why they have quit; guild break ups, friends quitting, dead servers, repetitive, unrewarding content, etc. Are you suggesting we just ignore these reasons because we don't know why every single person quit?

[cabyio]

There are common trends that keep appearing when people mention why they have quit; guild break ups, friends quitting, dead servers, repetitive, unrewarding content, etc. Are you suggesting we just ignore these reasons because we don't know why every single person quit?

No. I'm not saying we ignore them, I'm saying we CANNOT make any kind of accurate conclusion about why millions of players left off of a few anecdotal examples.

Say Player X left because he didn't like dailies. You have no way of knowing if he is one of only a few that left because of that (very unlikely) or if 500k of the players left because of that (also very unlikely). I'm saying its very dishonest to say, "Well, I've seen 5 people on here say they quit because they didn't like dailies, so that must be a major issue that needs to be fixed." Even if you crank that number up to 100 it still can't lead to a conclusion.

[melodramocracy]

- The PC is no longer King of the Hill. Tablet PC's outsell PC's by a wide margin and -again- sell F2P stuff all over the place.

Tablets outsell PC's for folks who do nothing but light work, and simply don't need a desktop, or even a laptop.

No one looking to play an MMO is going to say "hey, I'll just replace my pc w/ a tablet" for a bunch of reasons, ergonomics being one of them. In fact, I'd argue that since WoW has existed and grown sitting right next to the current gen of consoles, which were a FAR larger competitor for PC gaming than anything else, that hardware itself is a non-factor.

[cabyio]

Even if you had 100 peoples reasons, that's .00769%

[Aedeus]

Even if you had 100 peoples reasons, that's .00769%

There are such things as sample sizes.

[cabyio]

There are such things as sample sizes.

Ya... do you think that^^ is a good sample size?

[Pann]

Ya... do you think that^^ is a good sample size?

Whilst it probably is too small to work out the reason for every single person it is certainly big enough to see that certain trends are developing.

[Deleted]

No. I'm not saying we ignore them, I'm saying we CANNOT make any kind of accurate conclusion about why millions of players left off of a few anecdotal examples.

Say Player X left because he didn't like dailies. You have no way of knowing if he is one of only a few that left because of that (very unlikely) or if 500k of the players left because of that (also very unlikely). I'm saying its very dishonest to say, "Well, I've seen 5 people on here say they quit because they didn't like dailies, so that must be a major issue that needs to be fixed." Even if you crank that number up to 100 it still can't lead to a conclusion.

And yet that data is FAR more accurate than the bullcrap people r inventing to explain why 1.3mill have left.

My point is that the 'unsubbed' hold the key to why they left and NOT many of the reasons the idiots r picking out of their ass on here.

Ive unsubbed and i know why, and I know a couple of dozen other people who have unsubbed and i know why they did too. if u go back through the thread there are plenty of comments from the 'unsubbed' and there is a pattern...

So how would u work out why so many left? What data do u have access to which will give us the accurate answers?

Cos if u havent then my point stands up, "the only way to work out why people left is to ask them".

[Huehuecoyotl]

Ya... do you think that^^ is a good sample size?

if 100 people quit, and 50 of them said it was for pretty much the same reasons, then yes, that is a good sample size.

the only thing you need to allow for is the variance between "people that quit that still visit MMO-champion" and the rest of the population that quit. so you couldnt extrapolate directly to those reasons being behind 50% of the sub losses, but its a good place to start.

[cabyio]

And yet that data is FAR more accurate than the bullcrap people r inventing to explain why 1.3mill have left.

My point is that the 'unsubbed' hold the key to why they left and NOT many of the reasons the idiots r picking out of their ass on here.

Ive unsubbed and i know why, and I know a couple of dozen other people who have unsubbed and i know why they did too. if u go back through the thread there are plenty of comments from the 'unsubbed' and there is a pattern...

So how would u work out why so many left? What data do u have access to which will give us the accurate answers?

Cos if u havent then my point stands up, "the only way to work out why people left is to ask them".

Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.

In the absence of good data, you don't use shitty data, you say, "I don't know".

Also, we could harp on this shit all day long and it doesn't matter one fucking bit. Blizzard bases very little of their changes on what people bitch about. They do pay attention to complaints, but it has very little weight vs their real data.

So it all comes down to... Blizzard will do what they see fit from their data and we can't do jack shit about it.

EDIT: So you guys can piss and moan about anything you want. I'm going to go enjoy WoW and what comes... comes.

[Deleted]

- The PC is no longer King of the Hill. Tablet PC's outsell PC's by a wide margin and -again- sell F2P stuff all over the place.
- the rise of Facebook games and tablet games ... Without susbscriptions ... Just add to the fray

There you have it. ALL the above is 10 times more important than a nerve or a boost in 10.000's of tiny detailed game "issues"

But do go on with sticking your heads into the ass of this game. It is funny to read.

Let me know if Candy Crush Saga can compete with Titan when it finally comes out.

WoW still has more than enough subscribers to be highly profitable and the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.

I just love how you are making excuses for WoW becoming a mediocre game. You refuse to even consider the possibility that the current state of the game itself might be to blame for the loss of subscribers.

[Glorious Leader]

Let me know if Candy Crush Saga can compete with Titan when it finally comes out.

WoW still has more than enough subscribers to be highly profitable and the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.

I just love how you are making excuses for WoW becoming a mediocre game. You refuse to even consider the possibility that the current state of the game itself might be to blame for the loss of subscribers.

I wouldn't take ben bos to seriously. He is in reality a huge blizzard hater and doesn't think they can do better.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't take ben bos to seriously. He is in reality a huge blizzard hater and doesn't think they can do better.

I just hate people who refuse to listen to a different point of view. I welcome different points of view even if I disagree with them but not everyone is like that it seems.

In my *opinion*, WoW can be a lot better. Would that bring subscribers back to the game? In my *opinion* yes it would. But at this stage, WoW really needs a compete remake to remain truly competitive. I believe we will see that in a few years' time when it's easier for Blizz to upgrade the game's graphics (i.e. when average PC tech has improved).

[Glorious Leader]

I just hate people who refuse to listen to a different point of view. I welcome different points of view even if I disagree with them but not everyone is like that it seems.

In my *opinion*, WoW can be a lot better. Would that bring subscribers back to the game? In my *opinion* yes it would. But at this stage, WoW really needs a compete remake to remain truly competitive. I believe we will see that in a few years' time when it's easier for Blizz to upgrade the game's graphics (i.e. when average PC tech has improved).

You and I probably disagree on what they can do better but I think theirs an agreement that fundamentally they can do better. Getting rid of dailies is a huge fucking start...

[Deleted]

Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.

I never said 'it becomes gold', u did.

I said ITS THE BEST DATA WE HAVE.

ofc ur welcome to ignore that and spout your own groundless nonsense.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 08:51 PM ----------

if 100 people quit, and 50 of them said it was for pretty much the same reasons, then yes, that is a good sample size.

the only thing you need to allow for is the variance between "people that quit that still visit MMO-champion" and the rest of the population that quit. so you couldnt extrapolate directly to those reasons being behind 50% of the sub losses, but its a good place to start.

This.... says the same as my point

[Conscious]

Just because there isn't good data available (which only blizzard has), doesn't mean that your shitty data becomes gold.

In the absence of good data, you don't use shitty data, you say, "I don't know".

Also, we could harp on this shit all day long and it doesn't matter one fucking bit. Blizzard bases very little of their changes on what people bitch about. They do pay attention to complaints, but it has very little weight vs their real data.

So it all comes down to... Blizzard will do what they see fit from their data and we can't do jack shit about it.

EDIT: So you guys can piss and moan about anything you want. I'm going to go enjoy WoW and what comes... comes.

No, but things like WoWProgress, Realmpop, etc. provide good sample sizes, in the hundreds of thousands, if not low millions. So it's definitely fair to use the information, even if only for ballpark estimates.

Oh and sorry, but Blizzard as of Cataclysm it seems, have based most of their changes based on what people bitch(ed) about. I'm sorry you feel that Blizzard is still the noble company of old, but times have changed man, they're not out to design their own game for the sake of gaming, but rather for the sake of subscriptions and revenue.

the intellectual property is popular enough to justify a compete remake of WoW is necessary. Blizz will almost certainly do that when it becomes easier and cheaper to do.

The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.

[Deleted]

You and I probably disagree on what they can do better but I think theirs an agreement that fundamentally they can do better. Getting rid of dailies is a huge fucking start...

Indeed.

The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.

Even 2 million subs would be profitable. As time goes by tech and software evolves which allows devs to do things much easier, especially when average graphics take a huge leap.

It depends how easy it is to do, and in 3-4 years, it will be much easier to simply reboot WoW.

[Conscious]

Even 2 million subs would be profitable. As time goes by tech and software evolves which allows devs to do things much easier, especially when average graphics take a huge leap.

It depends how easy it is to do, and in 3-4 years, it will be much easier to simply reboot WoW.

Yeah, but we still won't be talking cutting edge, nor will we be talking subscription based, and you still have to factor in attrition purely based on people not wanting to play the reboot.

I think Blizzard knows as well as anyone, that you want to preserve your existing player-base (or grow it) as much as possible before transitioning to a new title, or a reboot.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The more subs that are lost, the less profitable the game becomes. So if you're going to wait until we're down to a couple million, you're not going to be able to invest that much into it.

EvE is running on 500k subs, and doing a damn fine job. 2 million would be enough to provide sufficient funds to churn out MORE content than WoW is getting at the moment and still be profitable. but it wouldnt be enough to pay bonuses, dividends, Titan, gold plated hookers for the management etc.