Is Blizzard Delusional? LFR Needs Changed For The Better

[KBWarriors]

Raid Finder is great for letting players see content and progress their character with a more flexible schedule, but one of the best things MMOs offer is the cooperative social experience that is group raiding.

Cooperative social experience? There is no cooperation or social skills involved in a LFR. Hell, half the LFR groups are usually people arguing or Portuguese healers/tanks that we can't communicate with.

The most communication I see is "wtf are you doing tank" or "why is (Player X) afk?"

The success rates on Spine of Deathwing and Madness of Deathwing upon release in Raid Finder were about the same as they are on Lei Shen today. The success rate quickly went up on Madness of Deathwing, going from 25% during the first few weeks to 60 or 70% towards the end of the expansion.

How people were failing on Spine is way beyond me... The fact that LFR teams are failing at all on LFR is way beyond me as well. They're point blank simple mechanics to follow. Lei Shen is unbearably simple as well but thanks to LFR, hardly anyone pays attention to buffs/debuffs or even has DBM/BigWigs installed.

The success rate would be far higher if people were actually encouraged to learn their class or encouraged to follow boss mechanics rather than AFKing to potentially receive loot. Not only that, but AFKers have THE EXACT SAME CHANCE that people who are actually participating do.

Garalon was initially too difficult in Raid Finder difficulty, but hotfixes solved that problem.
Before the Determination buff was added, if a group failed at an encounter a few times, there wasn't much hope that anything was going to get better. This resulted in some churn in the group and continued failure. The only way to solve this problem was making the encounter easier so that groups failed less.

"Garalon was initially too difficult" Are you joking? How in the.. what...?

Do you know how many times I've seen people in chat say "just wipe x amount of times and then let's burn him."

This pisses me off because this is the kind of behavior that a tool like LFR encourages.

Determination allows the group to slowly make more progress on a boss, as well as give people who were thinking about leaving a reason to stick around. This worked as intended, as the number of people leaving after failed attempts is significantly lower now. This also helps to reduce the amount of partially completed raids that people enter after a long queue.

Giving people the option to only enter a Fresh Queue would be a nice start.

Raid finder is designed to not be attractive to players that are doing most of the raid on Normal or Heroic difficulty, but for players that don't have a fixed raid group to play with.

Well instead, it's become attractive to a lot of mainstream raiders as well because a lot of people are quitting normal progression guilds for LFR. A lot of people now have this mentality that they shouldn't have to put any effort forth into obtaining gear. I honestly will be scared to see how many 10/25 progression guilds will be left before 6.0 hits if this continues.

In the past, relatively few people were able to see Arthas, Illidan, and other end bosses in raids. Raid finder allows millions of people to see the entire story.

Relatively few people were able to see Arthas? Are you kidding me? ICC was the most puggable end-game raid we had ever had. Especially when they implemented the full 30% buff.

Does Blizzard honestly believe people are queueing up LFR to see the story or for the lore? You can't make people care about the next boss if they didn't have to work to get to them. AKA: Progression

This is how raiding should be. IT'S A DAMN MMO!! Yes, not everyone is going to see the end game content but that is how it should be! "Content For All" is not how this game should be run and you can see the results of how the game is being run. We're now down to 8 million subscribers and before 6.0, I predict will be down to 7 million.

"But we have 8 million."

Yes.. but we used to have 13 million.

Stop implementing stupid things like "LFR" to please "everyone". Please for the love of god bring back whatever team or decision makers you had working on the team during BC/Wotlk because this one isn't working. You just can't run a MMO under a "content for all" direction.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

If you don't like LFR, don't use it.

[Marema]

I hope you've quit and have gone on to better things because you seem to be emotionally distressed about a video game.

If it wasn't for LFR I doubt I'd even play any longer. It really sucks to be an adult and have responsibilities. LFR caters to my playstyle and schedule and if people don't like LFR, they can GTFO. Hope the game keeps dropping subs to the point where it's only the people who actually still enjoy playing and not the elitist whiney pricks that seem to breed faster then rabits on these forums.

[gamingmuscle]

Cooperative social experience? There is no cooperation or social skills involved in a LFR. Hell, half the LFR groups are usually people arguing or Portuguese healers/tanks that we can't communicate with.

The most communication I see is "wtf are you doing tank" or "why is (Player X) afk?"



How people were failing on Spine is way beyond me... The fact that LFR teams are failing at all on LFR is way beyond me as well. They're point blank simple mechanics to follow. Lei Shen is unbearably simple as well but thanks to LFR, hardly anyone pays attention to buffs/debuffs or even has DBM/BigWigs installed.

The success rate would be far higher if people were actually encouraged to learn their class or encouraged to follow boss mechanics rather than AFKing to potentially receive loot. Not only that, but AFKers have THE EXACT SAME CHANCE that people who are actually participating do.



"Garalon was initially too difficult" Are you joking? How in the.. what...?

Do you know how many times I've seen people in chat say "just wipe x amount of times and then let's burn him."

This pisses me off because this is the kind of behavior that a tool like LFR encourages.



Giving people the option to only enter a Fresh Queue would be a nice start.



Well instead, it's become attractive to a lot of mainstream raiders as well because a lot of people are quitting normal progression guilds for LFR. A lot of people now have this mentality that they shouldn't have to put any effort forth into obtaining gear. I honestly will be scared to see how many 10/25 progression guilds will be left before 6.0 hits if this continues.



Relatively few people were able to see Arthas? Are you kidding me? ICC was the most puggable end-game raid we had ever had. Especially when they implemented the full 30% buff.

Does Blizzard honestly believe people are queueing up LFR to see the story or for the lore? You can't make people care about the next boss if they didn't have to work to get to them. AKA: Progression

This is how raiding should be. IT'S A DAMN MMO!! Yes, not everyone is going to see the end game content but that is how it should be! "Content For All" is not how this game should be run and you can see the results of how the game is being run. We're now down to 8 million subscribers and before 6.0, I predict will be down to 7 million.

"But we have 8 million."

Yes.. but we used to have 13 million.

Stop implementing stupid things like "LFR" to please "everyone". Please for the love of god bring back whatever team or decision makers you had working on the team during BC/Wotlk because this one isn't working. You just can't run a MMO under a "content for all" direction.

LFR as a concept is perfectly fine, the implementation may need tweaking...which blizzard admitted to earlier in the week.

[Birkhoff]

LFR needs to be completely gone.

Bunch of spoiled little children who wants loot handed to them on a silver platter.

[cherb]

LFR needs to be completely gone.

Bunch of spoiled little children who wants loot handed to them on a silver platter.

people with this view on how others should play are worse for the game than lfr

[Scinder]

people with this view on how others should play are worse for the game than lfr

You beat me to it.

[grisset]

LFR needs to be completely gone.

Bunch of spoiled little children who wants loot handed to them on a silver platter.

You sound like a spoiled child who wants to keep loot from "low class no skill scrubs"/people that can't devote time to a guild...

It's a two way street dude. How does their getting loot affect you? (hint: It doesn't)

[Marema]

LFR needs to be completely gone.

Bunch of spoiled little children who wants loot handed to them on a silver platter.

And yet those spoiled little children don't come to these forums and constantly whine about something they don't enjoy. I think hardmodes and challenge modes are idiotic and yet don't feel the need nor desire to post my feelings on the subject. You know why? Because, as an adult, I know that there are people who do enjoy those things and therefore should be allowed too play that way. Maybe we should all post how instead of wasting resources doing hardmodes and challenge modes Blizzard should make more LFR content so we can get loot on a silver platter? Nah, not worth the effort. You estuds play your way and us espoiledbrats will play our way.

[Frozen Death Knight]

To answer your title question, no, not really. I find their responses to be quite sensible, especially when they talked about finding other ways to make people more willing to interact and do raid/group content without having to remove LFR and LFD to achieve that. Removing big features from the game is complete backwards logic in that it wastes time and resources while just messing stuff up. You're supposed to think forwards, not backwards.

[Crashdummy]

LFR is great, LFR saved Cataclysm, the Q where LFR was luaunched is the only Q where they didnt lose subs.

Normal raids though, are overtuned as fuck.

So no, LFR doesnt need much changes except maybe in the loot part, but Normal does, and what it needs is a big nerf and the next ones to be tuned for NORMAL raiders, not heroic ones.

[Deleted]

hey guys look

another LFR thread for people saying lfr is bad / needs changing etc.

LFR is great, it helps people gear up so in future they have a chance to be able to raid, if the chance happens. Who cares about "welfare epics" etc, it helps me gear my alt to change for main for certain heroic progression fights, on an underpopulated server.

In future imho these threads needs locking, theyre pointless.

[Birkhoff]

And yet those spoiled little children don't come to these forums and constantly whine about something they don't enjoy. I think hardmodes and challenge modes are idiotic and yet don't feel the need nor desire to post my feelings on the subject. You know why? Because, as an adult, I know that there are people who do enjoy those things and therefore should be allowed too play that way. Maybe we should all post how instead of wasting resources doing hardmodes and challenge modes Blizzard should make more LFR content so we can get loot on a silver platter? Nah, not worth the effort. You estuds play your way and us espoiledbrats will play our way.

As an adult, you should know that people enjoy drugs too, and guess what they aren't good for health. Surprising huh? What would you do? Support drug legalization too?

Grow up.

[Glaziola]

LFR is awesome I hope they keep it up and find a way to solve some issues like kicking afkers on bossfights.

[Birkhoff]

LFR is great, LFR saved Cataclysm, the Q where LFR was luaunched is the only Q where they didnt lose subs.

Normal raids though, are overtuned as fuck.

So no, LFR doesnt need much changes except maybe in the loot part, but Normal does, and what it needs is a big nerf and the next ones to be tuned for NORMAL raiders, not heroic ones.

Yeah lets remove all challenge from the game. It's mostly composed of casuals anyway

[Elian]

RIFT is going free to play.

[jayinjersey]

I have deemed your entire rant unfounded based on the below comment...

"Garalon was initially too difficult" Are you joking? How in the.. what...?

Do you know how many times I've seen people in chat say "just wipe x amount of times and then let's burn him."

This pisses me off because this is the kind of behavior that a tool like LFR encourages.

Garalon's difficulties were addressed well before "Determination Stacks" were implemented.

[RoKPaNda]

Hah. Get rid of LFR and we'll start seeing huge losses in the west as we have in the east. Sorry, LFR is here to stay. Also the catering to everyone thing that you seem to think is bad for MMOs? Yeah that's standard in MMOs now, because it's a smart business decision.

[flavie]

i like LFR, it suits my workschedule, that doesnt allow me to raid N/hc. I can at least get a small taste of a raid that i would normally only see on youtube. I pay as much monthly as anyone, so who are other ppl to judge what i'm allowed to do or not?

Geeting kinda sick of all this LFR whine, sounds to me they're the spoiled brats themselves... live and let live or go find another game where epeen can grow wildly

[hammock]

I highly doubt anyone has quit normal raiding for LFR for the sole reason of it being easier. If they did then they weren't cut out for raiding anyway. The majority of raiders I know do it for the challenge.

Subscribers were down before LFR. There are alot of reasons why subs are down, its not just this part of the game which you so hate.
Everyone should see the content. If you don't like doing LFR, no one is forcing you. LFR is supposed to be easy. Why do you have such a problem with that?