Warchief being "universally despised" by Horde playerbase

[Deleted]

The fact you have to ask either of those questions makes me dispair for humanity.

Taurajo was a tiny village that warparties used when travelling south through the Barrens. Small civilian population. All allowed to escape, despite weakening the Alliance lines.

The civilians were not ALL allowed to escape at Taurajo though, the comments of the npcs whose spirits you have to put to rest paint a very different story. They mention soldiers closing from all sides, the windrider npc who is evacuating people gets killed, tauren merchants, innkeepers and other npcs seen cowering in fear with no real weapons to defend themselves with.

What happened at Taurajo (like so much in RL history) was an incompetent general who had no control over his troops in the moment of victory as they turned to loot and pillage. Horde wanted retribution so we strung up the man responsible for the attack.

But regardless the sacking of Taurajo shows just how much of a threat Theramore posed.

[Dreknar20]

- taking land and resources by force to survive.

I would hardly consider that a bad deed

[Raelbo]

So, I've got a question. Blizzard pretty much stated that every Horde player and their mother wants to see Garrosh dead (lorewise). That they want to kill Garrosh more than, for example, him leading a charge on Stormwind. So - is Blizzard right or wrong? If Horde players had a choice, would they pick the side of the Rebellion or the Warchief?

There is a world of difference between Horde players and Horde characters.

A lot of players think Garrosh is cool and awesome because he starts wars and wants to annihilate his enemies and will not hold back in any way to ensure the total dominance of his people. Players only hold this view because WoW is a game. There are not many players who would feel the same way if this were real life.

The horde characters however, have to live in the World of Warcraft. They have to live with the consequences of what Garrosh has done/is doing. If Azeroth were real, I think most of its citizens would prefer peace over war. War makes for interesting and potentially epic stories, but the reality is that war is tragic, destructive and seldom achieves anything of value.

To be entirely honest about it, I grow tired of this war. War is silly, and as faction champions we should be against it. Competing against the other faction for honour and glory is great, but when things result in all out conflict that doesn't help anyone.

[yetgdhfgh]

What do people want the horde to be?

A group of noble savages struggling for survival only there to be pitied in the baking desert

Or Strong conquerors who want for nothing and live in palaces that rival the mogu in splendor and glory

Garrosh wants glory not to sit in the desert playing with himself while the tumbleweeds blow past his starving people waiting for another dragon to come along to fight

[Dreknar20]

To be entirely honest about it, I grow tired of this war. War is silly, and as faction champions we should be against it. Competing against the other faction for honour and glory is great, but when things result in all out conflict that doesn't help anyone.

"wars will exist as long as there are people to wage them"

[Restors]

And it was supposed to be different than that. All the other races signed on to Thrall's new Horde to live in peace and with honor (or just to be left alone in Forsaken's case), not to be second class citizens/cannon fodder. Garrosh however seems hell-bent on taking the Horde back to the dark ages, just like his father did.

Supposed to be different according to who? You seem to forget the origin of the orcs where orcs hated each other because the belonged to different clans. Durotan and Orgrim were the first line of friendship from two different clans, and that was during Oshu'gun festival where it was forbidden to wage war against each other.

Is there any difference between Orgrim (which thrall values so high that he still carries his doomhammer) and grom? Not in my opinion, both were brute warriors who led their clans into misery. Orgrim lost the second war (trusted the warlocks and Gul'dan, which later ssassinated Durotan) and Grom brought back the legion's corruption into Warsong clan.

Garrosh is no different from the previous Warchiefs or chieftains, he just took a few step further to acomplish his masterplan. Thrall is the only will always be the only orc that valued diplomacy.

[Deleted]

I would hardly consider that a bad deed

You can trade... but the ORC WAY, according to the Hellscream family, is to take by force.

If you keep taking by force though, be prepared that eventually someone else amasses enough force to push your stuff in. Which is exactly what's happening to Garrosh now, and Sylvanas has it coming as well with her half-a-continent wide plague spree.

[Dreknar20]

War makes for interesting and potentially epic stories, but the reality is that war is tragic, destructive and seldom achieves anything of value..

Im in a quote happy mood

"What difference does it make to the crippled, homeless, and orphans whether war is waged in the name of tyranny or the holy words of freedom and democracy?" - Gandhi

"There is no honorable way to kill no gentle way to destroy" - Lincoln

[Venziir]

What do people want the horde to be?

A group of noble savages struggling for survival only there to be pitied in the baking desert

Or Strong conquerors who want for nothing and live in palaces that rival the mogu in splendor and glory

Garrosh wants glory not to sit in the desert playing with himself while the tumbleweeds blow past his starving people waiting for another dragon to come along to fight

Which is kinda funny, as we spend most of Cataclysm (where Garrosh became Warchief) sitting in a desert (Orgrimmar), playing with ourselves and waiting for another dragon to fight (LFR/LFD queu pop).

[Deleted]

Pre-MoP he was actually quite alright. He did some good too, I liked him.

Now it's like they're trying to force us to hate him by giving him the worst role. Same thing for Varian, he was like ... a total douche before, and now he's the coolest guy ever. I'm not so sure I like what Blizzard did with all of this but it's not really like my opinion matters.

So yeah, I'll fight the guy when time comes, but I wish things could be different.

[Dreknar20]

You can trade... but the ORC WAY, according to the Hellscream family, is to take by force.

Trade...something the Night Elves refused to do
And its better to own said resources than to have to pay for them.

Plus Hellscream dsnt just want a return to the status quo, he wants much greater prosperity for the Horde

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 11:02 AM ----------

So yeah, I'll fight the guy when time comes, but I wish things could be different.

It should have been different.
The Son of Grom Hellscream deserves better than this

[Trassk]

And it was supposed to be different than that. All the other races signed on to Thrall's new Horde to live in peace and with honor (or just to be left alone in Forsaken's case), not to be second class citizens/cannon fodder. Garrosh however seems hell-bent on taking the Horde back to the dark ages, just like his father did.


...mind that this quote is from the siege of Theramore, where Thrall proves that he won't allow anyone to threaten his people. That however was a justified retaliation, while Garrosh's aggressiveness has him step on way too many fingers in the end.

pretty much this. Thrall knew where to fight and what happened. He wanted his people to live in peace and try to make a home for themselves after being slaves for years.

And you know the ones who complained about having this freedom, those that were not happy with it? It was the bloodthirsty warsong'isk orcs who never were satisfied with living in peace, those that wanted war, war war and didn't care about raising family or protecting home. that wasn't good enough for them, and now those same orcs are going to be either killed or cast off from the horde in the coming conflict.

[Deleted]

Supposed to be different according to who? You seem to forget the origin of the orcs where orcs hated each other because the belonged to different clans. Durotan and Orgrim were the first line of friendship from two different clans, and that was during Oshu'gun festival where it was forbidden to wage war against each other.

Is there any difference between Orgrim (which thrall values so high that he still carries his doomhammer) and grom? Not in my opinion, both were brute warriors who led their clans into misery. Orgrim lost the second war (trusted the warlocks and Gul'dan, which later ssassinated Durotan) and Grom brought back the legion's corruption into Warsong clan.

Garrosh is no different from the previous Warchiefs or chieftains, he just took a few step further to acomplish his masterplan. Thrall is the only will always be the only orc that valued diplomacy.

According to Thrall, which should be good enough. Again: the other races signed onto THRALL's boat, two of them in Warcraft 3, the remaining ones later, besides goblins.

If Garrosh comes along and remakes the old Horde, other races from trolls to tauren to stonemaul ogres have every right to renounce their alliance, since it's not at all what they signed up for.

If other orcs don't value diplomacy, then maybe it's the time for non-orc Warchief, or indeed - non-orc Horde. The orcs can fight their wars alone, it always worked out great for them.

[Ceece]

I would hardly consider that a bad deed

...and getting away with killing innocent people is okay? I will agree that his crimes are different than the Lich King, and I understand your reasoning behind protecting Garrosh. He deserved better -- in fact, he was given the Horde -- his actions took him down a dark path.

[Zaelsino]

What about this doesn't make sense? The guy is a complete monster to the entire Alliance, and has zero regard for about 90% of the Horde too. He's ALWAYS had little support from the playerbase compared to his detractors, and that was long before they decided to shake up their plans and make that canon.

I agree he could have been something great, but that's not the route they took when Garrosh Hellscream arrived at his fateful fork in the road. I'm really not seeing the appeal of everyone's favourite genocidal, racist tyrant willing to use and abuse anything (including the orcs) to kill more Alliance at this point.

You kind of have to appreciate that no Horde races other than the orcs have anything to gain from Garrosh's war.

[Dreknar20]

...and getting away with killing innocent people is okay? Sounds like the drums of war thunder once again. See you on the battlefield. (;

who is exactly are these "innocents" that your talking about?

[khalltusk]

Trade...something the Night Elves refused to do
And its better to own said resources than to have to pay for them.

Plus Hellscream dsnt just want a return to the status quo, he wants much greater prosperity for the Horde

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 11:02 AM ----------


It should have been different.
The Son of Grom Hellscream deserves better than this

The Irony is hes just become as bad as his father if not worse. The one thing he was scared of and hated the most.

who is exactly are these "innocents" that your talking about?

Non combatants in Theramore.

This makes no sense. The location of the dungeons was all across Azeroth. From Deepholme to Vasj'ir the Horde was conquering and pillaging.

It makes perfect sense. He was taking the piss out of gameplay in Cata (queing for dungeons and raids while sitting in org)

[Cybran]

Which is kinda funny, as we spend most of Cataclysm (where Garrosh became Warchief) sitting in a desert (Orgrimmar), playing with ourselves and waiting for another dragon to fight (LFR/LFD queu pop).

This makes no sense. The location of the dungeons was all across Azeroth. From Tol'vir to Vasj'ir the Horde was conquering and pillaging.

[Dreknar20]

were satisfied with living in peace, those that wanted war, war war and didn't care about raising family or protecting home. .

Yeah, its not like there were other reasons
like Durotar not being the best of places or human/dwarf encroachment of Horde lands
Or elves ambushing caravans

[Restors]

And you know the ones who complained about having this freedom, those that were not happy with it? It was the bloodthirsty warsong'isk orcs

And yet Grom with WSG joined Thrall & orgrim to help out. Also followed Thrall without questioning him. I still blame Thrall for the war between NE's and WSG. It was he that forced Grom to stay in Ashenvale and build a camp. Because of the woods WSG cutted down, the war began.