Swizzle's Crazy Mage Discussiorama!!

[Soulstrike]

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dont you dare take that portal to real life :/

[Hasufer]

However, frost's shitty scaling doesn't bother me if Blizzard can tweak the numbers each patch. It's not elegant but it works.

Sorry to say, but I think you are a bit off track by stating that, at least for the current tier.
I guess you play fire normally, since you don't seem to know exactly how well the ratings do scale with frost? And you wont really waste anything, on any stat, ever.
In fire spec, pumping ekstra haste or mastery will be a small dps upgrade, compared to what u get for optimising crit in any possible way.
Fire scales extremely well with crit, and basicly crit is the only thing you will get(and always aim to maximize), along with some haste and mastery eventually (in great gear).

Frost scales very very well with haste, up untill a breakpoint which is likely not even optainable in 5.3 (I might be wrong, maybe it's optainable in bis gear or so)
Frost scales very well with mastery as of 5.3 as well. 50% of your overall dmg, originates from the 3 sources which mastery impacts upon. Adding more mastery means a fairly great dps increase.
Frost scales okay with crit as well, up untill the 28% softcap, however, both mastery and haste outweights it once you get properly 5.3 geared.

[Elegiac]

Frost scales very very well with haste, up untill a breakpoint which is likely not even optainable in 5.3 (I might be wrong, maybe it's optainable in bis gear or so)
Frost scales very well with mastery as of 5.3 as well. 50% of your overall dmg, originates from the 3 sources which mastery impacts upon. Adding more mastery means a fairly great dps increase.
Frost scales okay with crit as well, up untill the 28% softcap, however, both mastery and haste outweights it once you get properly 5.3 geared.

Frost's haste cap is around 50%; it sounds like a lot, but considering active haste buffs this cap is very easily attainable. Its crit scaling is pretty awful since the cap is so low, and I don't get where you think Frost scales "very well" with mastery; it's by far the weakest of the three stats.

[Deleted]

Frost's haste cap is around 50%; it sounds like a lot, but considering active haste buffs this cap is very easily attainable. Its crit scaling is pretty awful since the cap is so low, and I don't get where you think Frost scales "very well" with mastery; it's by far the weakest of the three stats.

In fact, Frost scale so much good with Haste that even past 50%, Haste is still better than Mastery. Mastery = Haste around 60% passively who can be obtained quickly after 5.4.
An idea could be to buff waterbolt's damage and/or FFB, or simply Mastery ratio.
Actually, the ratio is 300 mastery = 1% damage increase from Mastery. How about 275 or 250 for 1%. But it could result in some PvP cry ...

[Elegiac]

In fact, Frost scale so much good with Haste that even past 50%, Haste is still better than Mastery. Mastery = Haste around 60% passively who can be obtained quickly after 5.4.
An idea could be to buff waterbolt's damage and/or FFB, or simply Mastery ratio.
Actually, the ratio is 300 mastery = 1% damage increase from Mastery. How about 275 or 250 for 1%. But it could result in some PvP cry ...

What I've heard from Blizzard is that they want the critical strike cap to be the stat that is geared around.

[Deleted]

What I've heard from Blizzard is that they want the critical strike cap to be the stat that is geared around.

Oh, I know. Shatter cap could have obtain since 5.1. it's just that past 23%, it don't worth capping it further. And in 5.4, the 28% cap will be obtain through Intel (like in DS).
If Mastery would have scale better, Crit capping would have been require because the spell that benefice from it can be crit's capped. The only exception being Waterbolt.

[zomgDPS]

With the latest incanter's ward nerf, I think it is safe to say that the entire level 90 tier is now totally bland and useless.

Exactly the same damage % across all three with a massive bent towards pretty much everyone taking Invocation. After all, with IW now giving the same top-end dmg % boost as the other two, why take it over Invoc anymore?? The only thing that made IW stand out was the potentially higher damage boost.

Either way, I think we can safely say that the level 90 talents are good and dead. We need to brainstorm in depth about how to fix them.


I'm going to find some time to dedicate to breaking down a good framework for brainstorming new level 90 talents since, at this point at least, the band-aid 'fixes' to the level 90 talents are turning this entire mess into a bad joke at best, or making the entire thing look like a badly put together frankenstein monster at worst.

The monster be killed and something new must take its place.

[Deleted]

now, L90 are only maintenance buff. They could have been a 15% passive buff.

[Dorrinal]

Good news - they're almost certain to scrap bland 15% passive buffs... right?

My idea to bring back Arcane's burn phase: further increase Arcane Blast's damage during Arcane Power. 50%, 100%, I don't care as long as AB spam is the best dps during AP. Might have to remove the Glyph of Arcane Power. Might cause tears in PVP (but you let a mage chain cast AB, didn't you?)

[announced]

if they want to revert arcane to the cata method that would help more imo. decrease the value arcane gets for mastery and in exchange they could make arcane recover mana based on critical hits as well, and raise haste.

[Soulstrike]

if they want to revert arcane to the cata method that would help more imo. decrease the value arcane gets for mastery and in exchange they could make arcane recover mana based on critical hits as well, and raise haste.

we had clearcasting since.....i dunno and they decided to got rid of it on Mop which i found pretty sad :/

doesnt haste already increases our mana regen??? i dont think arcane needs a crit based proc/bonus it already scales nicely unless arcane gets complete overhaul

[announced]

we had clearcasting since.....i dunno and they decided to got rid of it on Mop which i found pretty sad :/

doesnt haste already increases our mana regen??? i dont think arcane needs a crit based proc/bonus it already scales nicely unless arcane gets complete overhaul

the thing is since we lost clearcasting we cant spam AB anymore. if we cant spam AB fast we cant do burst dps fast. dont say arcane missiles is burst dmg cause it doesnt hit for shit compared to blast. and missiles is a proc its not dependable dmg. perhaps they could raise the missiles cap to 5 or something so we could store missiles and spam them when its needed. that might bring back stack camping but idk i think it'd be a slightly better solution.

[Methusula]

Missiles hits harder that blast in every scenario with the exception of maybe a 4 stack crit versus zero crit missiles.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 01:20 PM ----------

I think it would have worked out better if they made it so instants were spammable moderate damage abilities that built up resources for the much harder hitting cast time nukes.

[Zavri]

If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.

[Swizzle]

If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.

It would most certainly be OP, from a PvP perspective anyway.

[Deleted]

But it could be a very good idea for an arcane on short CD (1 minutes).

edit : an Cd that only reduce Arcane Blast damage to 0 mana for 8s by example

[announced]

It would most certainly be OP, from a PvP perspective anyway.

no1 pvps with arcane though anymore. so that point is moot. im leaning towards arcane power making abs free.. that would seem overpowered but lets face it, arcane was so much stronger and more reliable back in cata, now its all mucked up since we cant camp anymore.

[Soulstrike]

If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.

would def be OP with close to 100% crit with DF active

[Swizzle]

no1 pvps with arcane though anymore. so that point is moot. im leaning towards arcane power making abs free.. that would seem overpowered but lets face it, arcane was so much stronger and more reliable back in cata, now its all mucked up since we cant camp anymore.

No one did PvP as BM either until they made it OP...you mooted your own logic.

[Dorrinal]

would def be OP with close to 100% crit with DF active

Good point, Deep Freeze would make any kind of burn phase... well, twice as powerful. Should that make my suggestion overpowered in PVP, how about this... how much must we increase AB's crit rate to make AB spam the highest dps?

"When activated... Arcane Blast has a X% increased chance to be a critical strike."