Poll: What would you do with Garrosh

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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Why cant it be both?
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    I say "destroy" because destruction is just a generic word. His first focus is destroying their will and their spirit; if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance, because would be the prove of their submission. But now that Pandaria has been discovered, that continent is the new goal:
    You're painting him as someone who wouldn't attack the Alliance unless they provoked him. He's not that sort of character. In Wrath he wanted to destroy the Alliance despite them both working to the same end. His soldiers instigated the series of events which caused an entire valley in Icecrown to be filled with dead and dying soldiers.

    He wouldn't care if the Alliance did nothing in the Eastern Kingdoms and if the night elves had a mass exodus. He'd try to burn them to the ground all the same.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.
    But both those reasons kinda go hand in hand

    To get new lands you need to destroy the Alliance
    Destroying the Alliance will gain you new lands

    It works either way
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    No he didnt. He civilized them ! Orcs were savages! Who believed in Power and smashing only like Garrosh !! But Thrall showed them another way among Trolls and Tauren ! Thrall is a great Leader any do not appreciate !
    Sorry man but you have some pretty BIG holes in knowledge of orcish history.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 09:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.



    You're painting him as someone who wouldn't attack the Alliance unless they provoked him. He's not that sort of character. In Wrath he wanted to destroy the Alliance despite them both working to the same end. His soldiers instigated the series of events which caused an entire valley in Icecrown to be filled with dead and dying soldiers.

    He wouldn't care if the Alliance did nothing in the Eastern Kingdoms and if the night elves had a mass exodus. He'd try to burn them to the ground all the same.
    In Wrath he didn't have not even one of the responsibilities he have now, being a Warchief is all another thing compared to be the Overlord of a military force. Plus, is pretty clear that Garrosh is changed by his experiences in Northrend. Still a proudful and ruthless leader, but more focused, since he have all the Horde in his shoulders, in Wotlk he was just some kind of young, inexperienced military leader with the burning desire of being a leader and crush some heads; plus, he had Saurfang to back up him. The Garrosh we have nowdays is not the excatly same to the one we saw in Northrend, not a different person hey, but not the carbon-copy even.

    No, i'm not painting him as the one that doesn't attack if not "provoked": simply he will use all the possible cruel and ruthless methods for break the very spirit of the Alliance, but the Alliance endure his brutal attacks and tactics, and don't give up.

    "I will let you live so that you can tell your King of the price for his continued defiance!"

    This is the problem. The defiance. And Garrosh will escalate the war any time the Alliance will endure an attack and persevere.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yet had no qualms about threatning his superior?

    I really dont agree when people say that idea. There was one quest where Saurfang under-handedly helps you kill a Necromancer but thats it. And for something like that you would expect it to be mentioned somewhere eh?
    Yet - "Garrosh has since embraced his potential as a strong leader, most notably in Northrend, where he directed the Horde advance through the Borean Tundra and won the hearts of his people."

    You forgot ICC raid gunship which was lead by Varok Saurfang as well.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Sorry man but you have some pretty BIG holes in knowledge of orcish history[COLOR="red"]
    Yeah as you wish! )))))))))) Thrall did what no one else did in Horde ! They where savages Before, no matter what if they were corrupted or not they were Savages ! They only thought about Power and destruction ! Dont say no please !

    Thrall has united all the orcs !! He was raised by Human he has human characteristics in his blood, and humans are considered to be more "civilized" then orcs ! He has taught Orcs all he knew ! He had shown them how to live Free without Corruption ! without all the savagery ! Thrall managed to raise Orcs Pride to decent level but keep it to Defend their new homeland not to conquer new ones! Garrosh cant see that!

    IDK how you managed to conclude your opinion about my knowledge of orcs! They were Savages thats why they failed!
    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    But both those reasons kinda go hand in hand

    To get new lands you need to destroy the Alliance
    Destroying the Alliance will gain you new lands

    It works either way
    I don't believe you understand what I'm saying. I am not saying that these two things are mutually exclusive.

    I'm talking about one being a primary goal and the other being a consequence or requirement of such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    In Wrath he didn't have not even one of the responsibilities he have now, being a Warchief is all another thing compared to be the Overlord of a military force. Plus, is pretty clear that Garrosh is changed by his experiences in Northrend. Still a proudful and ruthless leader, but more focused, since he have all the Horde in his shoulders, in Wotlk he was just some kind of young, inexperienced military leader with the burning desire of being a leader and crush some heads; plus, he had Saurfang to back up him. The Garrosh we have nowdays is not the excatly same to the one we saw in Northrend, not a different person hey, but not the carbon-copy even.
    And yet his personality and his hate for the Alliance have hardly changed.

    No, i'm not painting him as the one that doesn't attack if not "provoked": simply he will use all the possible cruel and ruthless methods for break the very spirit of the Alliance, but the Alliance endure his brutal attacks and tactics, and don't give up.
    "if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance."

    That's where we disagree. Kalimdor is just the beginning for him. He doesn't just want the Alliance out of Kalimdor. He wants them gone, period. He wouldn't be content with just Kalimdor.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    And yet his personality and his hate for the Alliance have hardly changed.



    "if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance."

    That's where we disagree. Kalimdor is just the beginning for him. He doesn't just want the Alliance out of Kalimdor. He wants them gone, period. He wouldn't be content with just Kalimdor.
    No wonder. Garrosh sees the Alliance as a threat to the Horde's existence and, quite frankly, he's correct.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    No wonder. Garrosh sees the Alliance as a threat to the Horde's existence and, quite frankly, he's correct.
    He sees it as a threat but more importantly an ant to be crushed under the Horde's boot. He sees the Alliance as a group who has challenge the Horde's supremacy and therefore must be destroyed. That is how Garrosh truly views the Alliance.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    He sees it as a threat but more importantly an ant to be crushed under the Horde's boot. He sees the Alliance as a group who has challenge the Horde's supremacy and therefore must be destroyed. That is how Garrosh truly views the Alliance.
    Well it's hardly unnatural to want to destroy those who want to destroy his people, is it?

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    Well it's hardly unnatural to want to destroy those who want to destroy his people, is it?
    Certainly not but I think it's evolved to become more than that. It's not just about them wanting to destroy his people... it's about them existing.

  11. #331
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    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.

    Honestly, though, of all the Horde leaders he was the only one with a clear goal. Get resources for Horde, no matter what. He was essentially what the REAL Horde was about that was displayed in Warcraft 1 and 2. Genuine brutality, waging war for the glory of the Horde.

    What is actually the goal of Thrall's Horde? What does the "player Horde" actually want? "Defend themselves" from the Alliance by allying with murderous Undeads who are now essentially the New Scourge? They want peace? Yeah right. The fact is that Thrall's "good" Horde has no agenda whatsoever: "We're kinda for peace, but let's remember we're Horde so lets go kill some Alliance guys. But we want peace, right. So let's go help the Forsaken pursue "their right to exist" by spraying plague on human refugees."

    Yup, Thrall's Horde is sure righteous and not hypocritical at all. Garrosh speaks with disdain of the Forsaken, and had his good sides in Cataclysm, insisting while to fight with honor, they have to fight for the Orcs' prosperity. You KNOW what the Horde's agenda is with Garrosh, while without him they have none. It's just a shame that the Horde playerbase who wants him dead has no clue about anything.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.
    Since when Blizzard went with the corrupted route? It's the complete opposite, Blizzard said that he is not corrupted.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.

    Honestly, though, of all the Horde leaders he was the only one with a clear goal. Get resources for Horde, no matter what. He was essentially what the REAL Horde was about that was displayed in Warcraft 1 and 2. Genuine brutality, waging war for the glory of the Horde.

    What is actually the goal of Thrall's Horde? What does the "player Horde" actually want? "Defend themselves" from the Alliance by allying with murderous Undeads who are now essentially the New Scourge? They want peace? Yeah right. The fact is that Thrall's "good" Horde has no agenda whatsoever: "We're kinda for peace, but let's remember we're Horde so lets go kill some Alliance guys. But we want peace, right. So let's go help the Forsaken pursue "their right to exist" by spraying plague on human refugees."

    Yup, Thrall's Horde is sure righteous and not hypocritical at all. Garrosh speaks with disdain of the Forsaken, and had his good sides in Cataclysm, insisting while to fight with honor, they have to fight for the Orcs' prosperity. You KNOW what the Horde's agenda is with Garrosh, while without him they have none. It's just a shame that the Horde playerbase who wants him dead has no clue about anything.
    Where is your source for the corrupted part? Blizzard did state that Garrosh is not corrupted, he is using everything as a weapon against the Alliance.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    No one knows How would situation go if Guldan would side with Horde and not betray them ! Alliance was strong Force, if they (orcs) had taken Alliance by force they wouldnt handle Night Elves by Force as they were too might by then. They have made Burning Legion to retreat. But personally I think Gul'dan Wouldnt help the battle much ! Alliance had Lot of Force in reserve ! like High Elves and Many Many dwaves . It is known That humans fought Orcs against ORcs in many numbers but High Elves didint. High elves had Lands whcih orcs couldnt destroy .
    You never paid attention to the story of Warcraft 2 then. Because the Alliance didn't have any reserves left, they were truly at the end of their ropes and at the mercy of the Horde. Lordaeron was all that was left and the Horde was on their doorstep. Silvermoon wasn't razed but couldn't exactly help either since they were busy coping with the losses. It was only a matter of time before the Alliance would be wiped out. But then Gul'dan took a portion of the army and betrayed the Horde, giving the Alliance their opportunity to fight back and they did.

    But do you honestly believe the Night Elves would stand a chance against the entire Eastern Kingdoms being Horde territory? Given how easily Cenarius went down, I don't think the Night Elves would stand a chance against an even bigger army of Orcs, Trolls and Ogres.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    Yeah as you wish! )))))))))) Thrall did what no one else did in Horde ! They where savages Before, no matter what if they were corrupted or not they were Savages ! They only thought about Power and destruction ! Dont say no please !

    Thrall has united all the orcs !! He was raised by Human he has human characteristics in his blood, and humans are considered to be more "civilized" then orcs ! He has taught Orcs all he knew ! He had shown them how to live Free without Corruption ! without all the savagery ! Thrall managed to raise Orcs Pride to decent level but keep it to Defend their new homeland not to conquer new ones! Garrosh cant see that!

    IDK how you managed to conclude your opinion about my knowledge of orcs! They were Savages thats why they failed!
    Simple, because you know very little of the orcs. You're painting them like they are by nature a bunch of savages and violent brutes and the "human" influence of Thrall changed them. This is COMPLETELY wrong. Sorry but would take too much time to explain their story, if you're interested about it there is Wowpedia.

    Just a thing, he cannot have human characteristics in his BLOOD lol he is son of the orc that tried to oppose alone Gul'dan and his warlocks, he's a "particular" orc also for this. On the other hand, he has been raised by the most coward, pathetic and horrible human that Lordaeron has ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    That's where we disagree. Kalimdor is just the beginning for him. He doesn't just want the Alliance out of Kalimdor. He wants them gone, period. He wouldn't be content with just Kalimdor.
    You seems to completely forget that after the events of Tides of War, Pandaria has been discovered, almost all the efforts of Garrosh shifted there, and i already quoted the various statements he says there to various characters, cannot be more obvious.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 11:00 PM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Definitely killed. Preferably staked outside of Org afterword as an example. I think Garrosh is probably the worst personality they've ever created for WoW.
    [QUOTE=Mongoose19;21168409]His head impaled.QUOTE]

    I like the irony in such answers to Garrosh's fate. We are supposed to despise him because of his brutality and war-mongering, yet some of the things that people come up with are so garroshy they would bring a smile on my face if not for the questionmark that is inhabiting it.

    I hope, for whatever sake the lore in WarCraft still has, that nothing of the sort will happen to Garrosh. If he is to be killed then so be it, but not executed, and in any case of his death, without any barbaric displays of his defeat. It would be in such a poor taste, and so illogical to wage war against a tyrant only to behave in such a poor way ourselves, and especially the likes of Thrall and Theron.

    Personally i hope he is defeated but not killed, and brought to his senses. I think he is more confused than anything else. Although as someone has mentioned, a redeption arc wouldn't be nearly as interesting as something like an Arthas redemption, but still, to me he doesn't seem like a genuinely evil person and as such does not deserve mere damnation.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-05-19 at 11:09 PM.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him".
    Kosak has stated several Times now that Garrosh is not corrupted how many interviews does it take? Hes someone that is only corrupted by his pride and ambitions. Not a damn outside source. Spreading misinformation is never good.
    Last edited by Shampro; 2013-05-19 at 11:06 PM.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    You seems to completely forget that after the events of Tides of War, Pandaria has been discovered, almost all the efforts of Garrosh shifted there, and i already quoted the various statements he says there to various characters, cannot be more obvious.
    I don't see any evidence to suggest that destruction of the Alliance isn't his ultimate goal. At this specific stage of the campaign he's playing land denial.

    Tell me how having an ultimately defensive standpoint adheres to Garrosh's personality. You said that if the Alliance kept to the eastern kingdoms, he'd be okay with that. Yet he goes out of his way to fight the Alliance. He's ultimately not in it just for land. He's ultimately not in it for the safety of his people. He's in it to prove he's superior and to destroy the Alliance, who dare to defy his will. It's the same reason he's willing to kill other Horde races. They defy him, they die.

    If he's not willing to tolerate defiance from his own allies, then why should he, or would he show leniency to those who have been defying the Horde for almost 30 years? I don't see Garrosh being the character to just say "if you won't attack me I won't attack you."

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Simple, because you know very little of the orcs. You're painting them like they are by nature a bunch of savages and violent brutes and the "human" influence of Thrall changed them. This is COMPLETELY wrong. Sorry but would take too much time to explain their story, if you're interested about it there is Wowpedia.

    Just a thing, he cannot have human characteristics in his BLOOD lol he is son of the orc that tried to oppose alone Gul'dan and his warlocks, he's a "particular" orc also for this. On the other hand, he has been raised by the most coward, pathetic and horrible human that Lordaeron has ever seen.
    I know quite lot about Orcs and how they got corrupted! How they lost their real pride (Eiterigg telling Tyrion). And Thrall was raised by a pathetic human but a great General and a Great Soldier! And he was raised by other Humans like Taretha. Thrall has Characteristics of Human because he was raised by Humans. So he influenced it to all orcs, imo that made them more "clever" !
    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I don't see any evidence to suggest that destruction of the Alliance isn't his ultimate goal. At this specific stage of the campaign he's playing land denial.

    Tell me how having an ultimately defensive standpoint adheres to Garrosh's personality. You said that if the Alliance kept to the eastern kingdoms, he'd be okay with that. Yet he goes out of his way to fight the Alliance.
    Have you any prove of a personal interest of him about the Eastern Kingdoms? The only thing is Gilneas, and he have pretty different interests there, not conquer the land for his people, the last thing in the world he want to have are the Forsaken on their very footsteps. You presume a lot with little back up.

    Presently, he fights with the Alliance in Pandaria because they arrived there FIRST, and this is the reason for which he was so angered with Nazgrim, because suddenly appeared a new continent and the Alliance arrived there before them. Then, the Alliance go to full war in Pandaria because they think that Garrosh will do something nasty on Pandaria, and so they CONTINUE to oppose him. And so the war goes on. Even there.

    Plus, you seems to forget that Kalimdor is not conquered as he wished. Just Theramore has been destroyed, Northwatch has been retaken and the night elves are perfectly at their place.

    The Alliance are NOT just keeping their freaking Eastern Kingdoms, they continue to oppose Garrosh for all their understandble reasons.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 11:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    I know quite lot about Orcs and how they got corrupted! How they lost their real pride (Eiterigg telling Tyrion). And Thrall was raised by a pathetic human but a great General and a Great Soldier! And he was raised by other Humans like Taretha. Thrall has Characteristics of Human because he was raised by Humans. So he influenced it to all orcs, imo that made them more "clever" !
    Not that Great Soldier. Experienced maybe, but he was a weak-willed drank worm.

    You may know how they got corrupted, but clearly know little of what they were before that, what the orc society was before Gul'dan completely transformed it.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 11:27 PM.

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