Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide

[Deleted]

At that point nat, you're talking about fractions of haste points which we can not control in game. Adding more digits would not change the calculations (too few of course would).

Keep in mind that the big difference between below and above breakpoints is the total length of the dot, from roughly 11.65 seconds before the 18th to 12.33 seconds after. This in itself is a definite DPT increase, but not a DPS increase. If you were to cast the same number of spells in between refreshing the dot (assuming always refreshing during the last tick), your dps would only increase minimally or even decrease (same damage + one tick over a longer period of time). What makes the breakpoint exciting is that you will sometimes be able to squeeze an extra spell in there depending on the number of instant cast procs you have. Lag, reaction time, movement, etc all play roles as well. 0, 3, 4, 7, and 8 instant casts in between refreshes will lead to time for an extra frostbolt one point after the breakpoint compared to one point before (After refreshing, the analysis would change a bit and the number of instant casts to get an extra frostbolt would shift to 2/3/6/7).


I am in no way saying to not use your procs...use them, but depending on timing left on NT you could cast another FB and refresh NT before using the proc. Pay attention to your dot timers and your procs to decide what to do.

To calculate number of frostbolts you can cast in between refreshes, I took the total dot length minus the number of GCD's used for instant casts (NT cast + IL + FFB) then divided by the FB cast time. Looking at the number of integer parts gives you the number of frostbolts cast. If the fractional part is in between zero and about half of a frostbolt cast time, then the dot should be on the last tick and ready for refreshing.

# frostbolts = IntegerPart[ (TotalDotLength - N * GCD)/(FB cast time) ]

I know what the difference between DPET and DPS, I only want to know if someone know the precision used by the game for haste.

My view on breakpoint: it's a non-issue for mage bomb, especially since LB will be fixed to scale linearly too. But it's a big concern as fire for Pyro and Combustion as they aren't chained and the number of tick have to maximised.

For proc, it's easy : the bomb's DPET is by far superior to any other spell, what ever breakpoint you use. And proc have a 15s duration.


@kuny : good news !!!

[tannzenator]

@Nat
Looking around it appears to be 0.00049999 seconds.

I could not find the old threads on official forums but the info is in the link below. The change to this style of dot/hot was made going into cata so most info will probably be found on posts 2-3 years ago.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/wow/guid...aste-hots-dots

[Kuni Zyrekai]

So I've gone ahead and changed wowpedia's haste rating per 1%. Turns out the person who originally posted it changed it on the casting speed page, but not the haste page. Hopefully no one else will make that mistake while looking at a value that it happens to works with.

[azzastar]

So, seeing as 5.3 is around the corner and this LB change looks interesting, anyone done the math yet as to how it goes vs. NT? would be interesting to see.

[Keiyra]

So, seeing as 5.3 is around the corner and this LB change looks interesting, anyone done the math yet as to how it goes vs. NT? would be interesting to see.

Yes, someone already has (don't remember if its earlier in this thread or just in a previous bomb thread)

Short version was come 5.3:
LB for single target
NT for 2-4 targets
FB for 4+

(edit: as pointed out below - they are pretty close)

[Deleted]

With FB only 2% behind LB in single target
LB isn't far behind NT on 2-4 targets
FB for 4+

Flamestrike is better

[Mastamage]

so any concensus on if we'll be using LB again as Frost or will NT and our haste still be beating it? If LB is taking over on single target should we be messing with a new breakpoint for it?

[Cabrian]

Isn't the magic raid haste number for Living Bomb: 12,043? This is the point at where you get +4 LB ticks under meta or BL and all other significant breakpoints are below this number when meta/BL are not up.

Can someone better at maths tell me if Brain Freeze proc probability is better or worse (or the same) over one DoT application with LB?

For argument sake, if we use a mage with the current haste breakpoint of 12,684:

With NT: 18 ticks (at 9% chance to proc per tick)
With LB: 6 ticks (at 25% chance to proc per tick)

[jtmzac]

So since we're talking about it I have some questions about living bomb.

From what I understand it has a few ticks then explodes and you can clip it anywhere between the last tick and the explosion. Is that correct?

I'll also be very interested to know how this will affect our snapshotting. I'm guessing in a negative way since less ticks gives us less options.

[huth]

From what I understand it has a few ticks then explodes and you can clip it anywhere between the last tick and the explosion. Is that correct?

Technically it's actually you can't clip it after the penultimate tick, as clipping refers to cutting the DoT short by refreshing to early.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

There's a tick as the explosion goes off. If you recast between the end and the tick prior, the one you lost will be added to the new cast and the explosion will go off.

[Mastamage]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that ~13,163 (37.52%) haste rating is our attainable LB breakpoint under no meta or lust. Soooo are we dropping to that rating in raids or should we continue our 18th tick haste build for NT?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

~13,163 (37.52%) haste rating is our attainable LB breakpoint

...?? We use frost armour, bro. That breakpoint is 9522. We'll likely continue to stack haste out to frostbolt hard cap, though.

[Mastamage]

...?? We use frost armour, bro. That breakpoint is 9522. We'll likely continue to stack haste out to frostbolt hard cap, though.

Nah I know that, maybe I'm over thinking it or the breakpoint cards are out of date. http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=44

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Nah I know that, maybe I'm over thinking it or the breakpoint cards are out of date. http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=44

They don't account for frost armour. There's just raid haste in that chart. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...r=false&gid=39

[Mastamage]

there's the spreadsheet I want. Danke

[Akraen]

Why am I the only one who seems to use wowcalculator.com? His numbers have always been right and easy to understand.

[Deleted]

Why am I the only one who seems to use wowcalculator.com? His numbers have always been right and easy to understand.

I don't know it

[Libretto]

The recurring issue with LB is that trinkets which proc from periodic effects proc less reliably / often with it. This was a noteable issue with LotC. Barring LB being a drastic DPS increase over NT I personally wouldn't change even on patchwerk if I was running Breath / Cha-ye's / both.

(yes, I know RPPM trinkets are technically supposed to have the same "PPM" regardless of dot tick frequency, but in practice I haven't found LB as reliable)

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

Despite the name I really enjoy the frost spec and even if it sims slightly lower than fire I think it is alot more consistent and I have few issues with the movement (Store instants for movement ;D ).

I've recently gone haste, but I note that in page one:

Intellect > hit/expertise > haste > crit to 28% > mastery > more crit
OR at higher gear levels:
Hit/expertise > haste > int > crit to ~23% > mastery

I ran alot of simcraft at the weekend and am definitely at the point where gemming haste > gemming int ( > 0.5 Int value for patchwerk, value of haste increases with movement & suboptimal play to ~ 0.6...).

So should I take my crit down to 23% -Simcraft seems to equalise my values for around 24% but the values of crit and mastery vary with differing fight types.

Just why does the transition from 28 -> 23% crit take place anyways ? What happens ? Is it related to a high haste value - If this is the case my haste at only 10.3k (Need to replace my SPA trinket - with Breath of Hydra ? )is it enough to value crit to 23% or am I somewhere between 23 and 28% ?