Poll: What would you do with Garrosh

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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I've seen people say that "thrall" would spare Garrys life. Nope is not going to happen. Thrall would kill _ANYNONE_ who threatens the hordes safety. He killed Jainas dad, and others who deserved it.
    Rexxar killed Admiral Proudmoore, not Thrall.

    And Garrosh needs to be spared, because if it's a kill out of vengeance then the Sha would consume the person that kills Garrosh. Haven't people learned enough of the Sha by now? I thought these ideals were hammered in enough by now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 12:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Krolikn View Post
    Killing him off would prove Blizzard handled his character development VERY poorly. For once I want a character to be redeemed. He should do his father proud (after making similar mistakes).
    Yeah, killing him off is basically giving in to all the people who considered him a badly written character. I still think he has a lot of potential if he's redeemed, he could be like his father or somewhat a younger Saurfang. Brash but a very skilled fighter.

    Him being the pinnacle of uncorrupted Orcs would be the perfect candidate to take it on with the Legion. For him it's personal. Nobody hates demons more than him.
    Let him kill some massive demon like his father, but instead of dying in the process let Garrosh live.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Rexxar killed Admiral Proudmoore, not Thrall.

    And Garrosh needs to be spared, because if it's a kill out of vengeance then the Sha would consume the person that kills Garrosh. Haven't people learned enough of the Sha by now? I thought these ideals were hammered in enough by now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 12:57 PM ----------



    Yeah, killing him off is basically giving in to all the people who considered him a badly written character. I still think he has a lot of potential if he's redeemed, he could be like his father or somewhat a younger Saurfang. Brash but a very skilled fighter.

    Him being the pinnacle of uncorrupted Orcs would be the perfect candidate to take it on with the Legion. For him it's personal. Nobody hates demons more than him.
    Let him kill some massive demon like his father, but instead of dying in the process let Garrosh live.
    Rexxar killed him but Thrall was the one who ordered he be put down dont forget that.

    As for redemption he frankly does not deserve it. He is a monster flat out. It would serve no purpose but for fans of his father to feel better about it. Nothing more. If he is to be killed its to serve justice (and we have enough info to support the fact that he needs to die. The only sha that can affect anyone is the Sha or pride as its the only one left free so you can't use that as an excuse (all the other sha are on Pandaria the one thats still at large is PRIDE so unless they are too prideful its not an issue)

  3. #383
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    Well for one thing I don't want him just killed off. I like Garrosh so it would be nice to see him redeemed somehow like maybe there was a sha controlling him which was the reason he was being so violent. If not that maybe imprisoned somewhere and either being a major boss character somewhere in the future or at some point something really bad is happening and they are desperate for help and they need Garrosh so they have to go and break him out, eventually leading to Garrosh becoming good again. Garrosh is one of my favorite characters so it would be nice if they could keep going with his story. All he wanted was to make the Horde the strongest of the two factions but unfortunately he's doing it in a way that he just flat out wants to rule all of Azeroth and kill anyone who gets in his way. In a way too it's also sort of kind of Thrall's fault for not being there for the Horde and to keep Garrosh and his followers in check. I mean where was Thrall all that time? In the Orc starting area teaching the little Orcs about Shamanism. Thrall claims the Horde to be his but he was taking his sweet ass time coming back. If he was there to reclaim his rightful spot on the Horde maybe none of this would've happened. He put Garrosh there just as a sub. It wasn't like Thrall was quitting the Horde to become Captain Planet for the rest of his life. At least I'm pretty sure that wasn't the reason he left.
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  4. #384
    The funny part here is, in the game Wacraft 2, Doomhammer was exactly like Grom and Garrosh before the stupid retcon in a novel started. I do not believe the sky is green, i just believe what i played years ago before wow even existed. I have my own view on Doomhammer and like him that way. Gives him personality. Brave and Brutal and a strong leader.

    Period.

    I think with such inconsistencies reverting his brutal nature making him a honorable dueller, its not really worth someones time to invest in this fiction, plagued by retcons outside of the game, that only a small audience knows about.

    That said, it doesn't matter if Garrosh is evil, neutral or good, gets killed or exiled or even stays the warchief. It will be retconned anyways.

    This inconsistency with the story alone is a reasion to launch an all new and fresh wow2. And this time make the story right, written by only 1 guy without retconning anything. Its the way i prefere and consume my stories and lore.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Common knowledge but i do not accept it. Can't handle a story to strangers and call it canon. No wonder people do care less about wow's story. So its save to say wow's lore is pretty messed up by co story writers outside of blizzards games design and a ton of unecessary retcons.
    Well just because YOU don't accept it doesn't matter for anything then. The same as someone claiming the sky is bright green, someone tells them "... no, its blue', and you respond 'I DON'T ACCEPT IT!'.
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  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Well considering you were going on about how we were just inferring stuff from quotes and other parts of history for our arguments and that such wasn't really proof yet you were doing the same thing as Garrosh has never openly stated any of this one way or the other and we're basically both looking at different interpretations of what he's said and done, yeah, you were dismissing (or attempting to dismiss) our arguments with something that renders your own null and void.
    I'm simply avoiding a discussion that will never have an end, because i understood after pages of reasoning that you will never get my point, no matter what i'm saying; then, if you have the misplaced arrogance to belive that for this my argument is hollow and you have the unquestionable reason about it, good for you.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-20 at 04:30 PM.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    The funny part here is, in the game Wacraft 2, Doomhammer was exactly like Grom and Garrosh before the stupid retcon in a novel started. I do not believe the sky is green, i just believe what i played years ago before wow even existed. I have my own view on Doomhammer and like him that way. Gives him personality. Brave and Brutal and a strong leader.

    Period.

    I think with such inconsistencies reverting his brutal nature making him a honorable dueller, its not really worth someones time to invest in this fiction, plagued by retcons outside of the game, that only a small audience knows about.

    That said, it doesn't matter if Garrosh is evil, neutral or good, gets killed or exiled or even stays the warchief. It will be retconned anyways.

    This inconsistency with the story alone is a reasion to launch an all new and fresh wow2. And this time make the story right, written by only 1 guy without retconning anything. Its the way i prefere and consume my stories and lore.
    Theres a lot in the story thats inconsistant. But I doubt we would ever see a "wow2". Only Wow - expansion thats overhauls x y z.

    I get that you hate certain characters or ways they have been changed. It happens unfortunately. Like with Thrall being torn away from the horde. I never wanted that. I wanted Thrall to be more involved but not in the way it happened in Cata (aside his personal love story/being a dad which I think its a good development)

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Or are you the kind of guy who just says what he wanted and then close your ears and go with nananananana can't hear you ! I mean... really I'm not making assumption of anything these quotes are from Garrosh not from my imagination ok?
    So sad. You may have this "nananana" crap feeling about me just because i haven't discussed with you, but with the other guy, and i said that i'm done with this discussion. I'm not denying facts (that don't exist, no matter how hard you try to belive so) but i simply decided to stop arguing, because i made enough of it with essentialy no results at all. I apoligize with you for this, but i simply tired of reasoning again with you after i did for so much time with madgod and, as i said, with no results at all.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-20 at 04:34 PM.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Theres a lot in the story thats inconsistant. But I doubt we would ever see a "wow2". Only Wow - expansion thats overhauls x y z.

    I get that you hate certain characters or ways they have been changed. It happens unfortunately. Like with Thrall being torn away from the horde. I never wanted that. I wanted Thrall to be more involved but not in the way it happened in Cata (aside his personal love story/being a dad which I think its a good development)
    After the Horde's mysterious retreat from Lordaeron and Grand Admiral Proudmoore's victories at sea, Lothar led the armies of the Alliance to liberate much of Azeroth and Khaz Modan (meeting up with Muradin and Brann Bronzebeard), eventually breaching the Black Morass itself. Lothar was killed at the foot of Blackrock Spire after a force of Alliance troops he personally commanded was ambushed by the Horde forces.

    He became separated from the main body of his troops in what is perhaps the greatest battle in Azeroth's history. Amid the chaos, he was forced into combat with Orgrim Doomhammer, Warchief of the Horde; after a long and draining fight, Lothar was defeated in single combat after his sword was shattered by the Doomhammer, his skull crushed by a powerful blow from the legendary weapon. However, others believe that Doomhammer did not win fairly and Lothar was killed after being ambushed by a group of Horde's warriors. Regardless, his blade fell from his dead grasp, though it did not lie for long.
    Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Anduin_Lothar


    Just so you know i am not alone with my humble opinion. For those weak novel defenders - i do not really understand you. Whats canon and whats not is not really written in stone by any means. Thus the story can't really be taken seriously, heh. My opinion is my opinion and as vaild as other opinions on the topic.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Common knowledge but i do not accept it.
    What are you, a pissed spoiled child? "Common knowledge" means simply that is canon. If you don't accept it is you that openly go against the canon story, not otherwise.

    [This post was infracted for flaming.]
    Last edited by Rivellana; 2013-05-21 at 12:47 PM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Common knowledge but i do not accept it. Can't handle a story to strangers and call it canon. No wonder people do care less about wow's story. So its save to say wow's lore is pretty messed up by co story writers outside of blizzards games design and a ton of unecessary retcons.
    While there are occasional minor mistakes, it's a very involved process between the authors and blizzard. There's a quote floating around somewhere I'm going to paraphrase here. "We don't just tell someone to write a book about Nova and let them run wild." Characters from the books make their way into game. Events from the books are very important to things that happen in WoW. Saying you don't accept the books as cannon is just plugging your ears and shoutting 'lalalala I can't HEAR you!'

    Krasus, the Dragon Aspects sans Deathwing, Rhonin, Falstad, Vereesa, and more are all characters that appeared in novels and other side material before the games, yet play big roles in the game itself. Jaina becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor, the death of Krasus, Varian's character development in Wolfheart and Blood of our Fathers, the Sunwell Trilogy setting up the Sunwell raid story, all of these things have an impact on the game but were started in the novels and other side material. It doesn't matter if you or I like it or not. You and I do not get to decide what is and isn't cannon. Blizzard has decided the novels are cannon, and they work VERY CLOSELY with the authors as they write those books, so yes, the novels are indeed canon even if they occasionally have minor schisms with in game stories.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 11:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Anduin_Lothar


    Just so you know i am not alone with my humble opinion. For those weak novel defenders - i do not really understand you. Whats canon and whats not is not really written in stone by any means. Thus the story can't really be taken seriously, heh. My opinion is my opinion and as vaild as other opinions on the topic.
    I go with the novelizations of WC 2 as canon over the game itself because:

    1. They were written after the games, and are more recent and up to date lore wise.

    2. They provide a singular, coherent narrative instead of two conflicting stories that offer very little in the way of storytelling.

    3. Blizzard works very closely with the writers of the novels as I said above. They have to approve it, it's not like they get to run wild and throw any lore in that they want.

    I'd say from an in character perspective, sure there could be rumors that Lothar was killed in cowardly means. But in canon, I'd go with the Tides of Darkness novel's version for the above reasons.

  12. #392
    I think it would be brilliant if Garrosh actually wins.

    So many players have come to expect that as the player you are the default 'good guy' and that you are eventually going to win. If WoW was a movie it would be incredibly boring, because as far as the storyline goes everyone is a badass immortal mary sue that always wins. I mean, from a literary point of view, the fact that the players defeat all of the Sha which represent basic human emotions means that as a character you will have beaten the 'human condition' by the end of MoP. So now we aren't just immortal badass mary sues, you need to add Vulcan Jedi on to that because we have triumphed over all possible flaws which can exist in a character.
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  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    Old Horde was already corrupted in both invasions so thats what I meant.
    The Old Horde was nothing more than a twisted and corrupted version of what the Orcs used to be. Thrall didn't "civilize" the orcs, he just united them again as a Horde but with a conception of living almost similar to the old one the orcs had when living on Draenor, like the practice of shamanism, before Gul'dan ruined it.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-20 at 04:39 PM.

  14. #394
    I always thought an exile would be a worse fate than death for Garrosh. Garrosh wants to die in battle. It would drive him crazy if we stripped him of his rank, weapon and put him back in nagrand in a shack somewhere where players could fly to. He'd live in shame and as a disappointment to the orcs and his father.
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  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    I'm simply avoiding a discussion that will never have an end, because i understood after pages of reasoning that you will never get my point, no matter what i'm saying; then, if you have the misplaced arrogance to belive that for this my argument is hollow and you have the unquestionable reason about it, good for you.
    So in other words you don't have a rebuttal for the fallacy I have pointed out and instead you attempt to insult my credibility by saying I have a "misplaced arrogance."

    I understand your point just fine. I simply believe that it's out of character for Garrosh to think "well if they won't bother us it will be fine and I don't need to bother with them" based on observations of his personality, which has remained rather static in regards to the Alliance over the years. Not much more to it than that.

  16. #396
    Deleted
    This thread assumes that Garrosh will be defeated. I hope that he'll wipe the raid at 1%, kill Thrall like he nearly did in the pre-Wrath events, and rule the Horde once more under an iron fist!

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    What are you, a pissed spoiled child? "Common knowledge" means simply that is canon. If you don't accept it is you that openly go against the canon story, not otherwise.

    I thought you wanted to leave this discussion?

    Btw, personal attacks are against the rules here. I do not accept it, cause there is no proof and evidence other than a novel that backs up that Doomhammer is a honorable warchief and not exactly like Garrosh and Grom!
    My views and opinion is based on the games and i remember someone at blizz told once those were canon and not the books. But i have no time or pleasure to dig that up now.

    Interesting though, that guys of your kind, can only bring up flame and all the same line of my reply here, while not answering directly to my thoughts on this topic.

    Thats really not worth my time so i am out.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 04:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rassendyll View Post
    This thread assumes that Garrosh will be defeated. I hope that he'll wipe the raid at 1%, kill Thrall like he nearly did in the pre-Wrath events, and rule the Horde once more under an iron fist!
    i hope this, too. As i can simply see no replacement for Garrosh worthy of the title "Warchief". The other Horde Leaders like Bane and Voljin are more "Peacechiefs". But it seems the burning legion will return, thus, alliance and horde will work together again - never liked that and never will.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 04:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    While there are occasional minor mistakes, it's a very involved process between the authors and blizzard. There's a quote floating around somewhere I'm going to paraphrase here. "We don't just tell someone to write a book about Nova and let them run wild." Characters from the books make their way into game. Events from the books are very important to things that happen in WoW. Saying you don't accept the books as cannon is just plugging your ears and shoutting 'lalalala I can't HEAR you!'

    Krasus, the Dragon Aspects sans Deathwing, Rhonin, Falstad, Vereesa, and more are all characters that appeared in novels and other side material before the games, yet play big roles in the game itself. Jaina becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor, the death of Krasus, Varian's character development in Wolfheart and Blood of our Fathers, the Sunwell Trilogy setting up the Sunwell raid story, all of these things have an impact on the game but were started in the novels and other side material. It doesn't matter if you or I like it or not. You and I do not get to decide what is and isn't cannon. Blizzard has decided the novels are cannon, and they work VERY CLOSELY with the authors as they write those books, so yes, the novels are indeed canon even if they occasionally have minor schisms with in game stories.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 11:21 AM ----------



    I go with the novelizations of WC 2 as canon over the game itself because:

    1. They were written after the games, and are more recent and up to date lore wise.

    2. They provide a singular, coherent narrative instead of two conflicting stories that offer very little in the way of storytelling.

    3. Blizzard works very closely with the writers of the novels as I said above. They have to approve it, it's not like they get to run wild and throw any lore in that they want.

    I'd say from an in character perspective, sure there could be rumors that Lothar was killed in cowardly means. But in canon, I'd go with the Tides of Darkness novel's version for the above reasons.
    At least this is a good reply, even though i disagree with you. Can't imagine Lothar beeing killed by Doomhammer in a fair duell, cause i really think Lothar was the more powerful Character and just needed to be ambushed to be defeated.
    Lets remember how Grom Hellscream dealt with Cenarius, Grom was strong and powerful as Doomhammer but he could not beat a legendary demi God on his own.
    I think the ambush, the original story before it was retconned via a novel, fits the horde in their desperate situation just more, they were about to lose the war against the alliance. You don't do honor duels in such a situation. Also Doomhammer needed Lothar dead to rout the alliance armies, but it resulted in a more brave alliance charging the hordes armies to their ultimate defeat at the Black Portal.

    You support the book, i support the game and my thoughts on the story. And i am really not sure if the story is in good hands right now, if old lore gets retconned for no reasion other than making the conflict horde vs alliance to simply disappear. After Garrosh, there is really only Sylvanas that would want to wage a worldwide war.(possibly).
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-05-20 at 05:02 PM.

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auroro View Post
    Where is your source for the corrupted part? Blizzard did state that Garrosh is not corrupted, he is using everything as a weapon against the Alliance.
    It's quite obvious. The fact that he is willing to experiment with fel magic, using Dark Shamans etc is first of all contradictory to his "Honor" speech in Cataclysm, which was when he was actually supposed to be taken seriously as a character. All the revelations in MoP speaks that he is essentially using "evil magic" to essentially bring back the very old dark Horde. I.e, they're antagonizing him in a one-dimensional way so that we don't feel bad killing him.

    I can bet you a thousand times over that it's going to tie it in with the Burning Legion, and that the legion used Garrosh as a tool to weaken the two factions. I.e he's corrupted. Has to be killed. No redemption involved. Not my fault you can't see it yet.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    It's quite obvious. The fact that he is willing to experiment with fel magic, using Dark Shamans etc is first of all contradictory to his "Honor" speech in Cataclysm, which was when he was actually supposed to be taken seriously as a character. All the revelations in MoP speaks that he is essentially using "evil magic" to essentially bring back the very old dark Horde. I.e, they're antagonizing him in a one-dimensional way so that we don't feel bad killing him.

    I can bet you a thousand times over that it's going to tie it in with the Burning Legion, and that the legion used Garrosh as a tool to weaken the two factions. I.e he's corrupted. Has to be killed. No redemption involved. Not my fault you can't see it yet.
    Blizzard said in a Q&A that he isn't corrupted mate.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I saw an article about Garrosh, questioning his being Corrupt. It had some pretty good arguments that sided against it. I'd post the link if it were allowed, though I'm not sure if I am so I won't. The way it is being built up seems to point towards corrupt though. What's your take on it?
    So many Warcraft villains are corrupt or possessed. Garrosh? He's just a bad apple. Everything is a weapon to him. Even the sha.
    Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...5-2-and-Beyond

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I understand your point just fine. I simply believe that it's out of character for Garrosh to think "well if they won't bother us it will be fine and I don't need to bother with them" based on observations of his personality, which has remained rather static in regards to the Alliance over the years. Not much more to it than that.
    Yet the whole basis for his rage against the Alliance is because he believes them a serious threat to the Horde and on obstacle to the heights and power the Horde deserves.

    If those were no longer true in his mind why would he hate them then?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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