"I would've already ordered the Shado-Pan to purge this entire shrine. "

[Deleted]

So a fat lolpanda that can't even kill a single mogu without our help is threatening us now ? Ah, its the same lolpanda that got corrupted by the very evil they were supposed to be guarding, with how do they call it ? "Iron will and discipline". Color me unimpressed, (self proclaimed) high warlord arrashi (being the badass he is) would probably mop (pun intended) the floor with entire shado-pan by himself.

Excellent post.

Totally agree. I don't think it helped having the Shado-Pan monastery as a boring 5 man. Made them look really incompetent to me.

[KrazyK923]

I thought the exact opposite. These master Pandaren who can generally take care of things on Pandaria are totally corrupted and in chaos because we unleashed the Sha.

I'll say it again, any faction in the game will be in disarray when literally ALL of the factions they've ever fought against re surged at the same time.

[Lynneiah]

It should also be noted that any neutral faction in the game has been portrayed as 'weak' and helpless without the aid of Horde/Alliance heroes. Sha'tar? Needed us to kill Illidan. Ashen Verdict? Couldn't penetrace Icecrown Citadel and kill the Lich King, which was the only reason that organization even exists. Needed us to do it for them. Avengers of Hyjal? Where were they?
And these are just the raid factions. Every single faction needs us to do their work for them. Every. Single. One.

What makes the Shado-Pan so different?

[Deamon002]

It should also be noted that any neutral faction in the game has been portrayed as 'weak' and helpless without the aid of Horde/Alliance heroes. Sha'tar? Needed us to kill Illidan. Ashen Verdict? Couldn't penetrace Icecrown Citadel and kill the Lich King, which was the only reason that organization even exists. Needed us to do it for them. Avengers of Hyjal? Where were they?
And these are just the raid factions. Every single faction needs us to do their work for them. Every. Single. One.

What makes the Shado-Pan so different?

The others don't spout ludicrously empty threats at the people who mopped up threats they couldn't handle.

[Lynneiah]

The others don't spout ludicrously empty threats at the people who mopped up threats they couldn't handle.

None of them had their most sacred of shrines desecrated by said people, either.
How do you think the druids would react if the Alliance suddenly decided they needed lumber and chopped down the World Tree?

[Zerlop]

Where/when does Taran Zhu say that the horde messed up the vale? I've done the new scenarios and stuff... When I fly into the pit the gobs made in the vale there's nothing there. I hope I didn't miss a cutscene or something.

[Sierra85]

Fuckin' plague them all.

You guys actually think the Shado-pan could take on the FORSAKEN? lool

the fat panda's would be very susceptible to the plague.

[Hyve]

I find the Shado-Pan to be really pathetic. While our influence on Pandaria has overwhelmed them, they've been more then happy to sit back and let us deal with the situation, along with far more issues that are not our fault.

Overall, the Shado-Pan is a joke, when I read this on the front page, I laughed, because the Horde would just crush the Shado-Pan without even breaking a sweat.

[KrazyK923]

...they "sat back and let us" deal with the situation? Did you do the same quests as I was? The ones in Kun-Lai where they were overwhelmed and their fighters were dying left and right? The ones where they couldn't keep the Mantid in check and asked for our help because, again, they were dying and didn't have enough people?

I wonder if people actually read quests when they do them.

[Lynneiah]

...they "sat back and let us" deal with the situation? Did you do the same quests as I was? The ones in Kun-Lai where they were overwhelmed and their fighters were dying left and right? The ones where they couldn't keep the Mantid in check and asked for our help because, again, they were dying and didn't have enough people?

I wonder if people actually read quests when they do them.

Why read quest texts when you can just assume your hunch is correct and then state that hunch as fact?

[Zathrendar]

The Kirin Tor didnt stab the blood elves in the back, the Silver Covenant did. Which is debatable with all the who was at fault talk but Im not bringing that up. As for the first time, Garithos gave the order and they had to obey. He was the leader of the Lordaeron Alliance at the time. Those blood elves eventually proved that they couldnt be trusted anyway, by joining the Legion and trying to summon Kil'jaeden.

Wait. What stopped Jaina as ruler of Dalaran from pulling back the SC? It's not like she said "stahp Vereesa, stahp", or anything of the sort. She was on her own maniacal rampage.

Oh and as for Garithos? Good leaders realise that their underlings can be corrupted, evil and detrimental. The modern Alliance is still linked to the old Alliance via the Kirin Tor (and the dwarves, and I guess the high elves), neither of whom have uttered so much as a 'sorry' to the blood elves for Garithos's ridiculous actions. What stops the Alliance from realising that Garithos's orders were foolish and damned their own faction's integrity? Because he had the 'authority' to give the orders? So what? I guess Vol'jin should just sit there and take it from Garrosh, because Garrosh is his superior.

As for "those" blood elves, they were pushed to the brink of extinction. They (and only some - many remained by Illidan's side, who was opposed to the Legion) were corrupted by KJ. Considering how powerful KJ is, how is this surprising?! You cannot push a person to their limits, and then point a finger saying "See! They were evil all along!" Well yes, after being left with no option but to join Illidan, who himself often used the blood elves as fodder for his own efforts (who, ironically, was less evil than Garrosh or Sylvanas, but yet nonetheless who was turned into a raid boss anyway), some of them were probably pretty jaded and vengeful, which is an ideal condition to be in for corruption to set in.

Fel transformed the largely peaceful orcs into murderous monsters. Some orcs -were- evil and embraced it, but they were a minority. Why is it surprising that it could, in uncontrolled doses administered at the behest of a Legion lord, corrupt a more magically attuned race? You forget that the high elves had founded a kingdom hidden from the Legion and limited themselves to conservative spellcasting practices to avoid ever risking the fate of the Highborne. So how desperate must they have been to take up fel? Remember, we had both the dwarves and the night elves sabotaging their sanctums, which enhanced the flow of ley energies through the realm and could've reduced the need to rely much on fel.

Vashj was the only individual there to help the Blood elves, and I think she held a measure of admiration for them and sensed kinship. Garithos - their supposed 'ally' - damned them. The Kirin Tor idly stood by. These individuals are weaklings and bullies, and deserve what they got and will get. TBH, they should've stuck with the Naga and Illidan, and forsaken both the Alliance and Horde, but sadly this is a two-faction story, where everyone else is 'evil'. So quite frankly, perhaps the Kirin Tor do need to suffer a bloodbath, until the Alliance acknowledges that what Garithos had done to the blood elves was wicked, and the Kirin Tor realise that their actions in supporting him made them complicit in the crime. You don't kick your allies down when their entire realm has been reduced to ashes by the Scourge. I guess only the Lordaeronians matter.

Bear in mind, Jaina herself has been 'neutral' to date and often acted in ways that detrimentally impacted the Alliance. She has now changed her tune. She is an unstable individual, and I think it's dangerous to put the Kirin Tor in her hands, although I guess 'calm' individuals like Modera are just as bad, anyway. Whether or not the SC were her bloodhounds, she could've pulled them back. Or I guess it's only Aethas who is expected to control all of his lackeys, but not Jaina?

The Alliance is a very self-serving faction. Yet when its members themselves treat it as what it is - an alliance, not an empire - they are written off and cast to the side. This has happened to both Quel'thalas and Gilneas. The blood elves were part of the Alliance for mutual benefit - Garithos did not deliver said benefits, he sent them on what were often lethal fool's errands, when they were weakest. Who knows, maybe Varian is different, seeing as he contemplated accepting the return of the blood elves and has formed a bond with Greymane.

[Romeothecat]

Ah, No no, WE didn't. Goblins forced by garrosh did this, the same garrosh we're not fighting against.

---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 11:48 AM ----------



and even that wasn't good enough, with such posts as this following right after it.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...line-is-a-joke

If blizzard does favor the horde more, is it any wonder, nothing they do is good enough for the alliance.

You honestly can't see that there is a clear difference in quality in those questlines? The alliance story was just an after thought.


OP: Right now, both the rebellion forces and Garrosh's forces seem to be back in kalimdor. Meanwhile most of the threats that had the shado-pan spread so thin have been taken care of (mantid, mogu, alliance and horde incursions, and to some extent the sha) At the moment if the shado-pan were to bring those reinforcements in they would likely find little trouble in purging the shrine

[ThisWillNotStand]

Crapdaren being hypocrites? Wow, did you just realize this? Welcome to Crapdaria.

[Zathrendar]

I really was like "Do it Taran-Zhu: PURGE THEM". I really can't stand the Horde inhabiting the Vale. It's such a disgrace. I can only accept Tauren in it.

Edit: That does not mean that I do not think that Humans are not a disgrace for the Vale. They are. They should go away. Night Elves, Draenei, Tauren & Dwarves are ok in my book for the Vale, but races like Goblins or Blood Elves need to be just exterminated and driven away from the Vale. I am really not fond of letting the Vale be in danger of races who would explode it to get minerals or draw every last shrink of energy away.

PURGE THEM!!

Rofl. Dwarves? Are you serious? WoW's original strip miners? You're funny. None of the races you mentioned barring the Tauren and NE are particularly nature-oriented, including the draenei. Nor are the Pandaren.

[KrazyK923]

-snip-

Garithos was a member of the "New Alliance" which consisted of a very small amount of Humans (From Lordaeron) and Elves. That was it.

Connecting that to the Alliance now, or EVEN the Alliance of Lordaeron, is silly.

I don't disagree with your other premise regarding the Silver Covenant, although I feel their actions totally justified after the Sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor a second time.

Still, saying the Silver Covenant and Jaina aren't linked is goofy. Of course they are.

[Zathrendar]

Garithos was a member of the "New Alliance" which consisted of a very small amount of Humans (From Lordaeron) and Elves. That was it.

Connecting that to the Alliance now, or EVEN the Alliance of Lordaeron, is silly.

Nope, it isn't, as the Kirin Tor and the dwarves were members of the old and new Alliance. The former of which stood by his actions, and the latter of which sent an 'ambassador' to spy on the sanctums whilst the night elves sabotaged them, before they were cut to down to size. I am not expecting Varian to apologise, but the least the Alliance could do is admit Garithos was twisted. The Kirin Tor had a much more intimate knowledge of his actions than the rest of it, of course.

But lets be consistent in applying this standard, shall we? The Sunreavers following Garrosh's orders were not linked to Aethas's Sunreavers. So going on a purge of them without proper due process and investigation is silly. Glad we agree.

[KrazyK923]

Nope, it isn't, as the Kirin Tor were a member of the old and new Alliance, and stood by his actions.

But lets be consistent in applying this standard, shall we? The Sunreavers following Garrosh's orders were not linked to Aethas's Sunreavers. So going on a purge of them without proper due process and investigation is silly. Glad we agree.

Actually it is. He was a member of the "New Alliance." That was literally the name of his faction during Frozen Throne. There weren't anybody in the "New Alliance" who survived past the Frozen Throne campaign. The Kirin Tor were not parts of the "New Alliance."

Like I said, I agree with you completely that the Silver Covenant were linked with Jaina. I never claimed they weren't.

[Deleted]

While I feel indifferent toward Shado Pan, I would like to point out to people slandering them and brushing them off-The Shado-Pan are not experienced in fighting Sha. We awakened them. We unleashed them, we, the horde and alliance. Shado-Pan's usual enemies are the mantid, and you can hear them speaking that it's way too soon to release swarms on Pandaria, even Klaxxi admit this, that's why they decide not to kill you and help with awakening paragons, who have never been awakened before. Unprepared Shado-Pan are fighting not only sha-augmented mantid, but also Yaungol and mogu, who, while not outright, are definitely also being manipulated by sha from the background. After all, they are the remnants of the old god. Without our interference, this current era Pandaren and Shado-Pan would do what they tell us they do: We are the watchers on the wall. They would guard the wall from yaungol and the mantids would largely be only a nuisance to them. Not to mention Zandalari searching for a new home and resurrecting one of the greatest tyrants in the Pandaren history.

All of a sudden, these watchers on the wall are the only viable line of defense, waging full scale war on 4 fronts(mantid, mogu, yaungol and zandalari)
Faced with overwhelming odds, if you encountered a root cause of the problem(Horde+Alliance), which is not going away but is somewhat keen on helping would you not send them to battle your enemies? I would. And I would give concessions, I would try to bring these hot heads together and have them at least accept each other until these threats to my homeland are dealt with. After all that, if I saw them desecrating the holiest of places in my homeland, I would snap probably too.

Try to understand Taran Zhu a little. From the beginning, he was the one against Alliance and Horde in Pandaria. He advocated denial of entry when we pleaded for Celestials approval. He orchestrated the covert assault on LeiShen's palace and now imagine seeing the forces he relied on turning on each other at the very gates to the palace? Taran Zhu hates us. He is incredibly angry with us. He fears for his people and his homeland. He got corrupted. Yes we saved him, because it was our duty to do so.

[Zillidan]

Ok, I guess I have to spell it out.

Someone has to decide where the vicious cycle ends. An eye for an eye leaves the entire world blind, as much as the individual acts might make the people involved in getting their 'justice' feel better.

It's actually funny, because that concept and people's general failure to understand that the scales do not always have to balance perfectly and that's OK mirror pretty closely.

Trassk, I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree that this bit with the vale is just thinly veined horde-bashing to make the alliance feel better. The fact of the matter is that Garrosh is a warmongering, bloodthirsty, and racist tyrant. And instead of removing him, the Horde has allowed him to do his thing, despite all the evidence we saw through the revamped cataclysm 1-60 zones and elsewhere that this shit was coming. And like it or not, for choosing to remain part of that group, members of the horde are responsible. "I was just following orders" is the most naive saying ever. Things like this are just part of the price for ignoring his actions for so long, and it's nearly time to pay the debt.

I played through all of the revamped zones. I have been pro alliance for all of wow, but I also played the revamped stone talon mountains and I can honestly say garrosh was not a villain at the end of that.

[Jediguy]

I really was like "Do it Taran-Zhu: PURGE THEM". I really can't stand the Horde inhabiting the Vale. It's such a disgrace. I can only accept Tauren in it.

As has been pointed out here quite accurately, Taran-Zhu and his precious Shado-Pan aren't the most capable fighters. Even he admits they are few in number, and they seem pretty incapable of doing the one thing they were trained to do (kill sha) without help. Who will purge us Horde from the Vale? Certainly not the Shado-pan. The Alliance? Unlikely, but you can try. My rifle and I always welcome flagged Alliance fanboys.