"I would've already ordered the Shado-Pan to purge this entire shrine. "

[KrazyK923]

...the Sha are only a problem...and thus the Mantid and Yaungol are only a problem...because of the Horde and Alliance.

It's like somebody starting a fire in someone else's house, the owner unable to deal with it, and then the same person comes back and puts the fire out. Yeah, thanks for putting it out, but you also caused it in the first place. You haven't done them a favor, you've just cleaned up your own mess.

And then the owner finds the arsonist breaking down part of their church/holy place because they want something underground beneath it. They have every right to be pissed at them. They don't exactly like them in the first place.

If the Shado-Pan weren't kind of preoccupied across the rest of the continent by problems we caused, I'm sure they would have had much better success with the Mogu. Contrary to the belief of our resident Orc apologist Thrassk, the kicking of the Horde out of the Vale has nothing to do with the Alliance whatsoever. Not only is it not an Alliance faction doing it, but the Alliance doesn't take part in it, and they can't even see the scene (To my knowledge. Unless we can hover over the Horde's shrine and see it. And if so, I would probably assume it was an oversight). Its just another nail in the "Garrosh dun fucked up" column. Its that simple.

[Agoonga]

The Horde should get all of the Hozen off of Pandaria and barrage the island with mana bombs.

[StationaryHawk]

Would these be the same Shado-Pan who've done next to nothing this entire expansion except grudgingly accept our help because they're obviously completely outmatched by these Sha remnants that we wreck without breaking a sweat?

Gameplay typically trumps lore, even if that means we wipe out a sha in a single quest in a few seconds.

Besides. The xenophobic pandaren of one of Pandaria's only militaristic organizations making threats to the faction who's leader is desecrating the Vale of Eternal Blossoms makes complete sense to me. He's already threatened both the Alliance and Horde at the introductions. He's already expressed his distaste for both the Alliance and Horde at the Temple of the White Tiger. Why should this be a surprise?

[Malcor]

I'm loving all these hardcore horde macho-men showing up behind the keyboard.

"I'd beat the shit out of that fat fucker"
"That little fat fuck, I'd beat him into submission"
"What a little pussy, He cant even defeat the Sha without our help"

Lol, Some of you need a grasp on reality.

[Lazuli]

I'm loving all these hardcore horde macho-men showing up behind the keyboard.

"I'd beat the shit out of that fat fucker"
"That little fat fuck, I'd beat him into submission"
"What a little pussy, He cant even defeat the Sha without our help"

Lol, Some of you need a grasp on reality.

Everyone knows horde players have huge dicks and walk around beating the shit out of any who oppose them IRL.

[Redlokyldoreifanggore]

1) The Horde and Alliance are guests and guests only in Pandaria. We have no pandaren "allies", as Taoshi clearly told you and Jaina/Lor'Themar, we merely share common enemies. The only "allies" that can be considered are the pearlfin jinyu or forest hozen and they were gained because the Alliance and Horde had respectively armed them against the other.

2) It was the Horde and Alliance that allowed the sha to manifest out of complete control. We owed it to every pandarian race to cleanup a mess we made. Even the Yaungol and Mantid.

3) Regardless of whether or not Garrosh represents the whole of the Horde, their banner is the same one marking the excavation pit currently desecrating the sacred holy land that is the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Imagine if the US told Israel that it was going to dig up Jerusalem because a bunch of oil was discovered right below it. You think our ally would appreciate one of the most revered holy sites in the world being ruined for a resource? "We've kept the rest of the Middle East off your backs, now let us destroy your most sacred place so we can get what we want". It's the same concept.

4) I can honestly say I'm rather disappointed by you guys and your inability to recognize obvious gameplay vs. lore issues. Lore-wise the Shado-Pan could've probably handled the Zandalari and prevented the reanimation of the Thunder King if they weren't dealing with mantid, yaungol, and sha (issues that wouldn't have arisen without us). Gameplay-wise every neutral faction has desperately needed our factions' help. The Cenarion Circle, Cenarion Expedition, The Argent Crusade, Argent Dawn, Knights of the Ebon Blade, Brotherhood of the Light, Ashen Verdict, Sha'Tar, Aldor, Scryers, Shattered Sun Offensive, Avengers of Hyjal, Earthen Ring... Are you getting the point? Imagine if Garrosh or Varian tried to dig under the Light's Hope Chapel for their own personal gain. Or if they tried to dry up Zangarmarsh themselves. Or if they tried to commandeer the Sunwell. Or steal the World Pillar for themselves as a bargaining chip.

Please, horde fanboys or otherwise, grow up and quit saying "Bring it" or "I'll kick that fat, bloody, useless panda's ass". You're all making the mmo-c and wow community look childish and idiotic.

[Verdugo]

Lore-wise the Shado-Pan could've probably handled the Zandalari and prevented the reanimation of the Thunder King if they weren't dealing with mantid, yaungol, and sha.

Thats the thing, they could IF. But obviously they cant.

[Redlokyldoreifanggore]

Thats the thing, they could IF. But obviously they cant.

The Yaungol and Mantid weren't an issue till the sha were released by our raging emotions. Anger drove the yaungol into Kun-Lai and Fear gained the strength to break out of Niuzao's temple and put the mantid on a premature, accelerated warpath.

[Lynneiah]

I also very much doubt that a purging done by the Shado-pan would involve an all out siege and assault on the Shrine of Two Moons. They'd probably sneak in at night and slit every throat they find while you sleep.

They're ninjas, not an army.

[Aphrel]

we defeated the mantid leaders.. and the thunderking and his armies.. and the zandalari... and the sha... gl hf tharanzu.

[StaeleAilar]

This is just the final straw, really, how much more pandering do they intend to do to validate making the alliance feel superior and demonizing even the only good elements in the horde left.

What, are they going to have the alliance next get to have the horde chained to posts, have all neutral factions become alliance only, and give them 50% land, all the while the alliance community complains about 'waah, blizzard ignores me so much'.

Seriously, this shit just pisses me off. Its bad enough we had to put up with garrosh crapforbrains hellscream turning the horde into a totalitarian society, seeing every good aspect of the horde pissed on, seeing everything garrosh does become the aspect of all evil so thus the horde becomes evil, and so all neutral factions view the horde as evil (dalaran, shado-pan, they'd probably do it with the cenarion circle with the deforesting of ashenvale if they could).

This is why the alliance is also so boring. Since when was the last time the alliance did something that out of faction characters questioned and considered reprehensable. Why is it always on the hordes head they get this? If the alliance did something so rotten a neutral faction considered throwing them out of an organization, I'd actually considered that depth, and show the alliance isn't always the happy go lucky goody good guys.

Just gonna throw it out there that you're little rant's "make the alliance do something bad" will never happen because Blizzard never makes the Alliance do anything except play companion to the horde. So yeah, you can scratch that from your books already.

As far as what Taran Zhu said, i personally found the vale to be quite beautiful and when i saw the giant crater there now (at the behest of Garrosh and the goblins) i did kind of agree that they should be purged from Pandaria. I say this while currently playing horde (i swapped so that the game could be interesting for once, you know, with story development and such). I also however doubt their ability to carry out such a task as they seem to be severely outnumbered and injured already.

[Yriel]

2) It was the Horde and Alliance that allowed the sha to manifest out of complete control. We owed it to every pandarian race to cleanup a mess we made. Even the Yaungol and Mantid.

As several already said, most sha were already active when the Horde/Alliance arrived. The Mantid for example had already started their attacks so the Sha of Fear was already there. Only the sha of doubt was awakended by the H/A.
The sha probably became active with the rising of the mists but that was nothing the H/A are responsible for.

[KrazyK923]

As several already said, most sha were already active when the Horde/Alliance arrived. The Mantid for example had already started their attacks so the Sha of Fear was already there. Only the sha of doubt was awakended by the H/A.
The sha probably became active with the rising of the mists but that was nothing the H/A are responsible for.

This isn't true. The Sha were not running a muck until the Horde and Alliance arrive. The Sha of Doubt is featured because he was beneath the Jade Serpent Temple which is in the same area as the current story.

[Combatbutler]

This isn't true. The Sha were not running a muck until the Horde and Alliance arrive. The Sha of Doubt is featured because he was beneath the Jade Serpent Temple which is in the same area as the current story.

The Sha were always more or less active, as can be seen in the shado pan short story for example. The Horde and Alliance unleashed at least one major sha we don't know for sure how many others were unleashed because of them.

[KrazyK923]

The Sha were always more or less active, as can be seen in the shado pan short story for example. The Horde and Alliance unleashed at least one major sha we don't know for sure how many others were unleashed because of them.

Their influence "bubbled up" every once and a while, but they never appeared en masse like they do after the Horde and Alliance arrive.

Again, not "running a muck." The Shado-Pan were capable of dealing with them.

[DeadmanWalking]

The Yaungol and Mantid weren't an issue till the sha were released by our raging emotions. Anger drove the yaungol into Kun-Lai and Fear gained the strength to break out of Niuzao's temple and put the mantid on a premature, accelerated warpath.

I'm going to tinfoil hat that I don't think that alliance and horde are completely to blame for the release of the Sha. Yes we do release 1 sha (and it was an awesome cutscene!) but we know that the Shalings of Despair pops up as horde and alliance land on the island and it seems to me that the sha of Terror had to of been working on the mantid for much longer than it took us to get to the dread wastes. We certainly didn't release the Sha of Terror, which causes the mantid to swarm and they push the Yaungol into pandaren settlements. The time table to do this must of been longer than the arrival of the Alliance or Horde. We do know that the Sha of Pride was never imprisoned and may of been responcible for the lowering of the mists and the release of most Sha.

[Lynneiah]

I thought the Shattering was responsible for the lowering of the mists?

[dejec1989]

Well the Shado-Pan army are a bit of a joke. I can't really see them purging anyone. Most of their greatest and most successful warriors still manage to kill themselves regularly enough with little effort when you quest with them.

Comparing game mechanics to story never works out rogueMatthias.

I can understand why they are pissed, why Taran Zhu is so pissed off with the Horde as a hole, he does not care about factions inside the Horde as he sees just the Horde being led by a leader that has made his subordinates dig up and destroy one of the most sacred land mass in all of Pandaria, which both factions had to prove to a ancient powerful creature just to gain entrance too. I might add Taran Zhu did not want that at the time either, he has thought of us as a necessary evil for along time and just as both factions are proving themselves to be more than just durp other faction kill! the Horde leader gives an order to dig up land that the Pandaren people hold most sacred with out even buying them coffee first.

I'd be pissed off if I were him and I would want the Horde out. Past heroic activities does not give you the right to do something wrong.

[Myzou]

2) It was the Horde and Alliance that allowed the sha to manifest out of complete control. We owed it to every pandarian race to cleanup a mess we made. Even the Yaungol and Mantid.

That's.... not entirely true.

The Shado-Pan failed in their duties given by the Celestials BEFORE the Horde/Alliance appeared on Pandaria. The Celestials had managed to trap 3 of the Sha. The Sha of Fear, Violence, and... Hatred?

The first to escape was the Sha of Fear. Because of the Shado-Pan's failure, it escaped, and managed to infect the Empress of the Mantid. This had to have happened months before we arrived, because there are comments about the odd Mantid activity in Jade Forest.

The Sha of Violence escaped later, but chose to Fester in the Shado-Pan Monastery, hence the change in the Shado-Pan throughout the questing experience.

The Sha of Hatred escaped through Suna Sunstrike, and disappeared. Her death from not being willing to let go of her hate for Taran Zhu led to Taran Zhu blaming himself for what happened to her, and hating himself, allowing the Sha to have the power to overcome him when he returned to the Temple.

The Shado-Pan are the fault for most of this. The ONLY thing the Alliance/Horde are at fault for is the Sha of Doubt that they broke the Celestial's Seal on in the Jade Forest. And even then, that was mostly the Hozen/Jinyu. Everything else was the fault of the Shado-Pan for failing in their duty. That is why they accepted the help when Taran Zhu became possessed, and why Taran Zhu accepted help in dealing with the Sha of Anger and Fear.

It's all cleverly written to make it look like it's all the Alliance/Horde fault, but it's not.

As for the actual topic, people need to grow up. Your warchief ordered the goblins to destroy a sacred Vale that you had to make an oath to PROTECT. Of course they're going to kick you out. The Pandaren are not Alliance or Horde allies. We are guests on Pandaria. Nothing more.

[Notos]

Lore-wise the Shado-Pan could've probably handled the Zandalari and prevented the reanimation of the Thunder King if they weren't dealing with mantid, yaungol, and sha (issues that wouldn't have arisen without us).

I disagree. We're talking about a rather small but elite military organization versus the majority of trolls and mogu on all of Azeroth. I also think that the arrival of the Zandalari would have awakened the Sha, even if the Horde and Alliance hadn't done it first. All it took was one battle.