How the hell will the orcs redeem themselves when all this is done?

[Deleted]

Neither Alliance or Horde where ever pure black and white, both are grey imo. However, Alliance is a slightly lighter shade of grey then Horde. Not so much wrong with that imo.
Looking at wow though, the pure white and pure black character where mostly (I daren't say always ) outside either faction. Old jaina is pretty damn white but was never 100% alliance imo. Thrall was always pretty white but got a complete bleach -after- he left the his Horde leadership position. The big bads where always outside the Horde or the Alliance, either from the start (deathwing) or was kicked out before he went completely black (Arthas). I think that now we finally see a change in that. Finally someone within the playable factions is turning black and we have to find a way to deal with that. The Horde because it threatens to tear apart said Horde. The alliance because it's far to dangerous to have a big bad in charge of a superpower.

One of the two factions had to be the first. It ended up being the Horde. I really hope to see that they continue this trend and that hopefully the Alliance will get their share of black soon. Varian going evil would be lame though. I'm rooting for either the dark dwarves taking over the council or greymane going bananas :P

[TheRickyB]

They don't really know about all the crap he did. They probably know about Andorhal, but at the same time they think Arthas hunted down and killed the powers responsible for creating the plague, so they're probably willing to look past that.

and Garrosh killed a "neutral" town responsible for helping Alliance gain a Foot Hold near 3 Horde capitols. . . there was nothing neutral about Theremore sorry to be the one to break it to you. now that Garrosh is attacking his own its the Same shit as with Arthas Except theres a faction who think hes doing the right thing, which he kinda is because hes still trying to Destroy the alliance.

[Psilo]

Thinking out loud here...

If a larger than average percentage of orcs get swept up in Garrosh's war machine and end up dying, then by the time the air clears the orc population should be low enough that the rest of the Horde takes a new type of control of Orgrimmar and the Horde itself.

Therefore, the simple answer is no longer have an orc as Warchief, and then the orc race can experience a full ego check they have needed. Getting Thrall back is, well, boring to me. Vol'jin is too obvious. Sylvanas isn't trusted enough with that sort of power. I think it is time for Baine Bloodhoof to step up and show that the wisdom and steadfastness of the Tauren can lead the Horde away from looking like a similar military-industrial-imperial empire.

[Deleted]

If a larger than average percentage of orcs get swept up in Garrosh's war machine and end up dying, then by the time the air clears the orc population should be low enough that the rest of the Horde takes a new type of control of Orgrimmar and the Horde itself.

Therefore, the simple answer is no longer have an orc as Warchief, and then the orc race can experience a full ego check they have needed.

I can get behind that Sounds a like a good reason for not having a orc as the main man.

Vol'jin is too obvious.

I am not completely convinced that to obvious is a bad thing. Might be nice to slowly work up to a blatant decision for a change. :P Instead of pulling out a random name in the end no one can really relate to. We can all see how that is going to end

[Destinas]

Thinking out loud here...

If a larger than average percentage of orcs get swept up in Garrosh's war machine and end up dying, then by the time the air clears the orc population should be low enough that the rest of the Horde takes a new type of control of Orgrimmar and the Horde itself.

You'd think, but Orcs tend to breed like rabbits. That's why there are so many of them around on Azeroth, when really they haven't been there long enough to truly procreate enough to make an empire (under human pregnancy and aging terms, that is.)

[Trassk]

You'd think, but Orcs tend to breed like rabbits. That's why there are so many of them around on Azeroth, when really they haven't been there long enough to truly procreate enough to make an empire (under human pregnancy and aging terms, that is.)

its true. and nearly every other horde outpost that isn't specifically race based, like forsaken or troll or blood elf, are always orc based showing the greater persentage of horde troops being horde, including those of outland and northrend. Heck, even the other race based camps and towns have orcs in them.

[Verdugo]

You'd think, but Orcs tend to breed like rabbits. That's why there are so many of them around on Azeroth, when really they haven't been there long enough to truly procreate enough to make an empire (under human pregnancy and aging terms, that is.)

One would think that their stupidity is ingrained in them as a population control.

[Deleted]

You'd think, but Orcs tend to breed like rabbits. That's why there are so many of them around on Azeroth, when really they haven't been there long enough to truly procreate enough to make an empire (under human pregnancy and aging terms, that is.)

True but you also have to think of this in context of other events. With Hellscream in charge we now have not just Mag'har orcs in the Horde, but also recently Dragonmaw and Blackrock Orcs back into the fold.

Thrall also has his kid before 5.1 and we only just learned of the pregnancy when Deathwing popped his cloggs, so it stands to reason that Orcs have a shorter pregnancy and fast development.

[Trassk]

True but you also have to think of this in context of other events. With Hellscream in charge we now have not just Mag'har orcs in the Horde, but also recently Dragonmaw and Blackrock Orcs back into the fold.

Thrall also has his kid before 5.1 and we only just learned of the pregnancy when Deathwing popped his cloggs, so it stands to reason that Orcs have a shorter pregnancy and fast development.

not really. Thrall meet aggra and got married to her by the first major patch of cata. between when they got married and the end of cata, they had plenty of time to do the barry white. Also, the end of cata just had alexstrasza do her hand thing and say 'omg your pregnant!', not how many months in. Come forward by the mid section of mists, and the babies born. So given the months all these events took place, I'm not seeing any briefer time of pregnancy then a human would.
Personally, given the build up Thrall had as a character, I feel they did so little to show his son's birth in the story and Thralls reaction to being a father, not even a short story, given how integral Thralls own birth was in lord of the clans.

But then why am I surprised, this clearly being blizzards reaction to the insipid whiners that complained about Thralls development in cata, they decided to back away from giving him any real development into fatherhood.

[Dreknar20]

I can get behind that Sounds a like a good reason for not having a orc as the main man.

fuck that.
Ogrimmar is the Orc city and capital and ill be damned to see anything but an Orc ruling it

[luccadeo]

They'll be redeemed because Metzen's ingame personality is Thrall and we all know that Blizz bleeds for the Horde.

[Dreknar20]

. I'm rooting for either the dark dwarves taking over the council P

fat chance of that happening, after what happens in 5.3 with the council

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 02:43 PM ----------

the wisdom and steadfastness of the Tauren can lead the Horde away from looking like a similar military-industrial-imperial empire.

But as military-industrial-imperial empire is just so dam awsome

Plus Tauren and Orc culture may have similarities, but they also have their differences. Orcs being a bit more rowdy than Tauren.

[Deleted]

Lot of orcs do not support Garrosh. And by this I mean Majority. Its his Kor'Kron wo supports him and they will be wiped out in the Battle I hope !

That is utter bullshit. The only Orcs who are against Garrosh are perhaps Saurfang, Eitrigg and Nazgrel (yeah, the right hand of Thrall if Blizzard even knows he still exists). All the others are loyal to Garrosh. The vast majority is loyal to Garrosh.

And about the Kor'Kron. People seem to think they're evil, but they're not. They are simply 100% loyal to the Warchief. So whatever order they've been given they carry it out. Thrall's elite force was also Kor'Kron and yet they never did bad things back then. It's just that now they're getting different orders, because of Malkorok or Garrosh himself. To be honest, who knows how much Garrosh is even aware of the things Malkorok orders, I'm sure Malkorok has some imput of his own, if not a lot.

[Dreknar20]

If it's illegal, who's to judge? .

God.
Too bad he dsnt have a phone connection to us

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 03:10 PM ----------

Nazgrel (yeah, the right hand of Thrall if Blizzard even knows he still exists). All the others are loyal to Garrosh. The vast majority is loyal to Garrosh..

Little iffy bout Nazgrel. He does have hate and disdain for the Alliance races, as seen in the WC3 Founding of Durotar

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 03:11 PM ----------

Thrall's elite force was also Kor'Kron and yet they never did bad things back then. .

Forsaken players may say otherwise

[alt-ithist]

What ever happened to the Korkron just being a small elite group that served as the Warchiefs personal guard?

[Destinas]

What ever happened to the Korkron just being a small elite group that served as the Warchiefs personal guard?

Thrall himself wonders that in 5.3, and intends to find out when he travels to Orgrimmar.

[Dreknar20]

What ever happened to the Korkron just being a small elite group that served as the Warchiefs personal guard?

they have always been more than just bodyguards

Even as far as Wrath and Burning Crusade the Kor'kron had whole armies, acting as the spear-head for the Horde war effort

[Pony Soldier]

No I cant agree with you. Once everything is done and calmed, Trolls and Tauren will start hating every Orc in Orgrimmar or New Kor'kron. It always happens like that.

So after the rebellion Vol'jin and Baine will hate Thrall? Doesn't really make sense to me.

[Florena]

not really. Thrall meet aggra and got married to her by the first major patch of cata. between when they got married and the end of cata, they had plenty of time to do the barry white. Also, the end of cata just had alexstrasza do her hand thing and say 'omg your pregnant!', not how many months in. Come forward by the mid section of mists, and the babies born. So given the months all these events took place, I'm not seeing any briefer time of pregnancy then a human would.
Personally, given the build up Thrall had as a character, I feel they did so little to show his son's birth in the story and Thralls reaction to being a father, not even a short story, given how integral Thralls own birth was in lord of the clans.

But then why am I surprised, this clearly being blizzards reaction to the insipid whiners that complained about Thralls development in cata, they decided to back away from giving him any real development into fatherhood.

Yeah, thrall's child being born is a big moment for his character. But considering the massive pile of characters on the waiting list to get development, and the fact that Thrall is already playing a role in MoP, I think we can let this pass. They can't just write a short story about every little thing, and it's possible it'll be put into a novel or short story in the future, such as Shadows of the Horde. Not to mention, as blues have said before, story presented in game needs gameplay to go with it. Maybe they couldn't think of any gameplay reason to show Thrall's son being born especially having already done a horde baby birth scene this expansion with Dezco. We had to wait until long after cata was released to see the politics of the gilneas refugees being brought back into the alliance in Wolfheart for example, so just because blizz hasn't developed something yet doesn't mean they won't ever.


As for long Aggra was pregnant, we can't really say. We know it was about two months between 5.0 and 5.1. But as far as I know blizz hasn't revealed how long it was between deathwing's destruction and Theramore, or Theramore and the landing on Pandaria. It could have been nine months, especially if Aggra was pregnant a good while before DS.

Which leads to a funny tin foil hat theory that I'm sure isn't true but is amusing to think about. What if Thrall knocked Aggra up before their 'wedding' and only proposed because Greatmother Geyah forced him into a shotgun wedding? I know, it's sill and untrue but I find the thought humorous to imagine.

[Faroth]

not really. Thrall meet aggra and got married to her by the first major patch of cata. between when they got married and the end of cata, they had plenty of time to do the barry white. Also, the end of cata just had alexstrasza do her hand thing and say 'omg your pregnant!', not how many months in. Come forward by the mid section of mists, and the babies born. So given the months all these events took place, I'm not seeing any briefer time of pregnancy then a human would.

Patch 4.3 went live in November 2011
Mists of Pandaria 5.0 released in September 2012

When you consider there's usually a bit of time gap between expansions as well, it's definitely reasonable to expect it's been more than 9 months between Deathwing's fall and the Alliance/Horde forces landing on Pandaria in 5.2

I'm with Trassk on this one.

However, regarding him as a father, Trassk, I'll bet you 1,000 imaginary dollars we get some insight to that in Vol'jin's upcoming novel. I'd not be surprised if there's a good bit of time spent with Thrall involved in it as well.

But then why am I surprised, this clearly being blizzards reaction to the insipid whiners that complained about Thralls development in cata, they decided to back away from giving him any real development into fatherhood.

Because not every aspect of Thrall's life needs to be the full focus of every patch in every expansion? While I agree that the story of Warcraft is essentially centered on Thrall as the central protagonist since his introduction, it's not necessary for us to dwell on him for every aspect of the story. It's a major piece for him, though, and I'd actually almost be interested to see a short story regarding his first months as a father and his thoughts surrounding the events leading to 5.3 and 5.4 written by Metzen.



And I want to reiterate the orcs redeem themselves by sending out gift baskets.
Everyone likes gift baskets.