[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Brusalk]

Corruption: my main issue atm seems to be Corruption dropping off, especially on multiple targets (i.e. Council). I am using EA Glyph for that fight, yet somehow it seems they're always about to fall off. I tab around with ToC during meta to refresh it on all targets, but that leaves hardly any time to burn SF procs. I tried VR, but it's very hard to get the right positioning in. Am I doing something wrong there?

Unfortunately Corruption refreshing with ToC + Pandemic + EA Glyph is not working quite right, and when you refresh corruption via ToC it's max duration it can be refreshed to doesn't include both pandemic and EA. As a result refreshing Corr manually means >30 sec corruptions, while ToC refreshing hits a max of like 28 seconds. (Numbers are most likely wrong, but they're what are sticking out in my head this morning.)

[Biomega]

So should I refresh it manually, then? If it's about to fall off for once, but also when there's procs? I'm thinking proc -> refresh -> meta, instead of proc -> meta -> ToC?

[Gremory1]

So should I refresh it manually, then? If it's about to fall off for once, but also when there's procs? I'm thinking proc -> refresh -> meta, instead of proc -> meta -> ToC?

If you have a significant proc you can extend the duration of corruption further by refreshing manually. That being said, corruption is not a significant source of damage, so it might be worth using that proc for meta soul fires and just taking the 28 second duration you can get from a few ToCs. Corruption is primarily there for fury generation anyhow.

[Deleted]

I made a pretty nice WA for those who like to line their Imp Swarms with DS.

dWuJxaqiic0IavUeergffoffTkic1RGknlO4wGIDHkv)cQkddsDmPYYGKNPinnaPRHQQ2Muv(gQugNuv5CsvQ3jvX8KQQUhuL9bk1brv0crv6HOQmrOcDrOQAJOsYhHsnsPk5KOkSsbVeQaZuiYnHkODcQ6NqKgkOKLIkXtrAQc1vbeFfvsnxiIAVk9xiQbR6WOSyOKhdHjd0LLSzuXNfsJwrCAkTAic51crnBfUna7gXVLYWvulNQEovMUORdY2Hk67cHXJQkNhqTEicy(qe0(jVDB8szB8Ml1T0oUduUZnU37LcyPGlfCJxQRgCGvZsYLYlsJJrkoms4NRIxQVIABKyGNRLg13GMxkbcqS3gnA5Dl8Dl1cUuEaywNgbZdyPJgdCJxQVnQnEPaGgPDJ3CZnxAXVzgbSaxE3CPi24f(UnEPGw38GbmnziISBPiP5LYpKYHJRYfEyM2p0CFk3q31XTU(Xn(VueT2aSfbz5DP(kQTrIbEUwQfrJSuis6TrJw(nEPU5AmGNbOw47qd0PD9T5sbgPC44QC5ky4g)r1BGYFUXnUbuG27P91BGUCGbO9TuceGyVnA0Y7w47wA6TrJw(nEPjWZ1sDjlHCl1nxJb8ma1cFhAGoTRVLw4Si5s5R1gGTii6WY3I6lNt3GoxJH5sHCfY(caZsSKOlwlfYvi7MRXaEgGA5DPqUcziInxExkePWzrYLYGY2sra5YgaKNybRLMwaf4Ml1cUuU2oa15bGzD(WXLoAmWnEPqUczedMZT8UuFBuB8sbans7gV5MlfYvi7MlelVlfYviJObalwU8Uu3CHyJxQZsIoQfEuBUuedMZTXl1zjrh1s5AEYLiHu(WbBU5Ml8O24L2GYHLulVlf06MhmGJl(LlfjHyPiGCzdqCXVCPCGiisBJyyQGUUUUlz(eJoiKNL2gbJEryynkqD80XUs6Cng81AdWweeJUUP9RVoZEuqxxx3LmFIcJoiKNL2gbfg9IWWAuGO0Xth7kPZ1yWxRnaBrqm6qd0PD9z2Jc6666egGcJUNrImgDlIgbJoIgejXOdADZ1ig45cJoiKNL2gzkg9IFZwF5WOJG5YYJr36OzXgmSgfgf0111DtAqdq(AexBybzzHr3nxJbpWrm6iyeEoppaMNqEggDRJ3MZHJfwqC4GrhNSbu1HrhNSbuHcJoozdOAQc66664PdeIn5jKNza38GbC5HdJoCXfGziNoxQzBchgDIDGrhUEH)iblUcircoZEuqxxx3Yr3WLmFQdBD06mcOoiKNL2grh26O1zeqDqiplTnck9(3XD(BQNtkIc66666666(kH8eDx6TKOCNtZdGLgWHK4Ehh4Wac5zPTrW1LmFcd2vgBbugMW0Hcn(m6WfieBsNRXOxmxwgaHyt4zakd4G1GbC5HZ0eFDOrBA2Jc66661Wvwo6gegGsxiH4PtSdt9Csruqxxxxxxx3Yrx3O43S1xoymaH8S02iOW1LmFIcgSRm2cOmmnHnkt9Csruqxxxxxxxxxxx3Yr3aeYZsBJGRlz(egSRm2cOmmXTdnSn6qHgFgD4ceInPZ1y0lMlld4G1GbC5HZeFDOrBIRbiKNL2gbfUUK5tuWGDLXwaLHPPPPEoPikORRRRRRRRRRRRRRR7ReYt0DP3sIYDonpawAahqCLEJOZhoQZH5sKGWz2Jc666666666666fbubDDDDDDD9IaQGUUUEravOiGkOGckOGckOGckOGckOGckOGckOGckOGckOGckOGclfyKYHJRYfEuOxkdrABe3gVuxY85gVuxdIaImIjmcPglfhYCz5xQRbraxQocix2aSuWgYakNJfTwSwkydzxdIaUyT5s5yjw3KnEPGnKJoArSyT5Mln92Orl)gV0e45APUKLqULc5kKNuSroz5DPtk2iNGCBU8SS5xkSx6KInYjlf9sHCfYqeBU8UuisHZIKlLbLTnx6KYgDsUCf)7q3XTP913uUHAk)rHg9YbgGY)LoAmWnEPqUczedMZT8UuFBuB8sbans7gV5MlfYvi7MlelVl1nxi24L6SKOJAHh1MlfYviJObalwU8UuedMZTXl1zjrh1s5AEYLiHu(WbBU5s50ij1IeOw4rb0LcADZdgW0KHiYULIKqSuFf12iXapxl1IOrwkO1HebrqKwCwlwlLbLTfRLIeb5slhGxAKWpxfVugiOnTncBGC6TrJwE3gVW3TXln92Orl)gVuhewfolsclFXXYVLsHf(JuKwAc8CTueqUSbyPiGCzdWs5arqK2gXWubDDDDxY8jgDqiplTncg9IWWAuG64PJDL05Am4R1gGTiigDDt7xFDM9OGUUUUlz(efgDqiplTnckm6fHH1OarPJNo2vsNRXGVwBa2IGy0HgOt76ZShf0111jmafgDpJezm6wencgDenisIrh06MRrmWZfgDqiplTnYum6f)MT(YHrhbZLLhJU1rZInyynkmkORRR7M0GgG81iU2WcYYcJUBUgdEGJy0rWi8CEEampH8mm6whVnNdhlSG4WbJoozdOQdJoozdOcfgDCYgq1uf0111XthieBYtipZaU5bd4YdhgD4IlaZqoDUuZ2eom6e7aJoC9c)rcwCfqIeCM9OGUUUULJUHlz(uh26O1zeqDqiplTnIoS1rRZiG6gGqEwABeCDjZNWGDLXwaLHz)7DVn1zeqDqiplTnck9(3XD(BQNtkIc66666666wo6gUK5tu64HNoADgbu3aeYZsBJGRlz(egSRm2cOmmHPdfA8z0Hlqi2KoxJrVyUSmGdwdgWLhot8PGUUUUUUUEhA0MM6WwhMo0M65KIOGUUUUUUUUUUUUVsiprp9qvpkORRRRRRRxeqf0111RHRSC0nimaLUqcXtNyhM65KIOGUUUUUUUULJUUrXVzRVCWyac5zPTrqHRlz(efmyxzSfqzyAcBuM65KIOGUUUUUUUUUUUULJUbiKNL2gbxxY8jmyxzSfqzyIBhkyB0Hcn(m6WfieBsNRXOxmxwgWbRbd4YdNj(6qJ2exdqiplTnckCDjZNOGb7kJTakdtttt9Csruqxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx3xjKNONEOQhf011111111111lcOc66666666fbubDDD9IaQGUUUUcfbubfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfwQdcRcNfjPqC4y53srMpEsJrMgZtUeVuetkerEPqZGSSwkcix2aGCc8CTuxYsi3slCwKCP9QyJCYsra5YgaKNybRLMwaf4MlfIKEB0OLFJxkcix2aSuoqeePTrmmvqxxx3LmFIrheYZsBJGrVimSgfOoE6yxjDUgd(ATbylcIrx30(1xNzpkORRR7sMprHrheYZsBJGcJEryynkqu64PJDL05Am4R1gGTiigDOb60U(m7rbDDDDlhDdxY8PoS1rRZiG6GqEwABeDyRJwNra1bH8S02iO07Fh35VPEoPikORRRRRRRB5OByac5zPTrW1LmFcd2vgBbugMWUFM6nVUbiKNL2gbxxY8jmyxzSfqzycthk04ZOdxGqSjDUgJEXCzzaeInHNbOmGdwdgWLhott81HgTPPE)1HPdTPEoPikORRRRRRRRRRR7ReYt0tpu1Jc66666666fbubDDD9IaQqra3CZnxkhpdqrtplzl88FPrybZjl8D9HEP8dPC44QCHhMPOrVuceGyVnA0Y7w4rTuxn4aRMLKlLxKghJuC4sTGlfiUIhaMPrW8awkO1npyaZdenYs5b8X4NlCfp5d)izEWhsHNIKzyzh2eyKJG5hnergzlG5weLVaTaMxQlziISdwnljxkF4h(y8ZLnx4NUXlf06MhmGPjdrKDlfiu8RZl(5cf)CbhGFUS0rJbUXlfYviJyWCUL3L6BJAJxkaOrA34n3CPqUcz3CHy5DPU5cXgVuNLeDul8O2CPqUczenayXYL3LIyWCUnEPolj6OwkxZtUejKYhoyZnxkWiLdhxLl8OqVuFf12iXapxl1IOrwkej92Orl)gVueqUSbyPCGiisBJyyQGUUUUlz(eJoiKNL2gbJEryynkqD80XUs6Cng81AdWweeJUUP9RVoZEuqxxx3LmFIcJoiKNL2gbfg9IWWAuGO0Xth7kPZ1yWxRnaBrqm6qd0PD9z2Jc6666UK5ZPy0bH8S02itXOxegwJcCQoE6yxjDUgd(ATbylcIbQ(q1BUz2Jc6666kORRRB5ORBy4sMprHliKNL2gbfmyxzSfqzyAc7o06nVUHlz(CkUGqEwABKPWGDLXwaLHPjS7qBQNtkIc66666666(kH8e90dv9OGUUUEnCLLJUbiKNL2gbxxY8jmyxzSfqzycthk04ZWOdxGqSjDUgJEXCzzahSgmGlpCM4RdnAtK4oUJYuV)W0H2upNuef011111119vc5j6PhQ6rbDDD9IaQqravqbfuqbfuqbfuqbfuyZL6Qbhy1SKCP8I04yKIdxA6TrJw(nEPjWZ1sra5YgGLIaYLnaiNapxl1LSeYTueqUSbahH8S02ilvbDDDDf0111vqxxxxbfwkcix2aSuoqeePTrmmvqxxx3LmFIrheYZsBJGrVimSgfOoE6yxjDUgd(ATbylcIrx30(1xNzpkORRR7sMprHrheYZsBJGcJEryynkqu64PJDL05Am4R1gGTiigDOb60U(m7rbDDDDxY85um6GqEwABKPy0lcdRrbovhpDSRKoxJbFT2aSfbXavFO6n3m7rbDDDDlhDdGqSjxyikd4G1GbC5HZuhp80Hl23gd4m1ZjfrbDDDDDDDDlhDdxY8PoS1rRZiG6gUK5tCbH8S02iWGDLXwaLHPz)7DV1zeqDdxY8jkD8WthTEZRBuegwJceLoE4P3PZiG6gUK5tu4cc5zPTrqbd2vgBbugMM9VFMM6mcOUHlz(CQoE4PJwV51nkcdRrbovhp8070zeqDdxY85uCbH8S02itHb7kJTakdtZ(3pttt9Csruqxxxxxxxxxxx3YXaeYZsBJG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How it works is the following:
-It will display icon with timer if Imp Swarm is usable and it has cooldown less than DS cooldown+10sec. If the timer is positive, it means you can use it without delaying DS. It goes to -10, then you will have to delay your next DS by 10secs.
-It will also display the icon if Imp Swarm has less than 8sec cooldown left and your metagem procs and when Imp Swarm comes off cooldown you can use it and get new Imp Swarm before next DS
-For Trolls, if neither of those two are possible, it displays Berserking icon if you can use that and Imp swarm and get new Imp swarm before next DS.

Every icon has +10 seconds to DS cooldown, I thought it would be fine to either delay DS for Imp Swarm or use it while DS is up.

[Deleted]

I made a pretty nice WA for those who like to line their Imp Swarms with DS.
How it works is the following:
-It will display icon with timer if Imp Swarm is usable and it has cooldown less than DS cooldown+10sec. If the timer is positive, it means you can use it without delaying DS. It goes to -10, then you will have to delay your next DS by 10secs.
-It will also display the icon if Imp Swarm has less than 8sec cooldown left and your metagem procs and when Imp Swarm comes off cooldown you can use it and get new Imp Swarm before next DS
-For Trolls, if neither of those two are possible, it displays Berserking icon if you can use that and Imp swarm and get new Imp swarm before next DS.

Every icon has +10 seconds to DS cooldown, I thought it would be fine to either delay DS for Imp Swarm or use it while DS is up.

Dude.. just reading it sounds amazing. I've imported it and will give it a try in raid finder/at dummy testing.


On a different note:
Here's something that somehow confuses me.

I just simmed my char for a single target dps fight with GoSac and the stats scalingis as follows:
Int - 6.04
Hit - 5.86
SP - 4.89
Mastery - 3.1
Haste 2.66
Crit - 2.28

This would obviously dictate me to go for gems with double secondary stats, instead of int/x, i.e. exp/mastery, because the expertise would be extra hit which would result in hit being free to be reforged into mastery.



Then I did the same thing for a 2-target fight and these are my results:
Int - 8.16
Hit - 8.49
SP - 6.62
Mastery - 4.2
Haste 6.15
Crit - 3.08

So as you can see, Intellect is still pretty strong, but wouldn't be your first choice when it comes to gemming, since haste is scaling extremely strong.
8094 is the haste point I went for, since I can't really get much lower, because of my gear and going for the next doom tick would mean heavy reforging into haste - and exactly here's where my problem starts!
I don't know how to evaluate the results posted above. In a pure single target the thumb rule would apply and mastery would outmatch all the other stats which would result in gemming intellect and int/x. But as soon as there's a change to that scenario (i.e. a 2nd boss mob, adds that live long enough to have doom tick on them a few times, etc.) the stat weights get mixed up pretty bad and will result in the ones I posted second.

So how exactly do I figure out how to gem and how to reforge, since the stat weights might change a bit the better my gear gets.
Am I overthinking this and should just stick to the thumb rule and stack mastery, unless haste outweighs mastery in single target dps, or are my concerns justified?

[rubbishgames]

I think you should stack haste to the nearest achieveable haste breakpoint and stack mastery for the rest.

For the gems, go for intellect/secondary that will help you achieve a socket bonus. For pure red sockets, it doesn't really matter what gem you use cos the dps difference is somewhere along the lines of 25-50 dps.

[WildcatTM]

Greetings, folks,

Here's my armory: Valefar

I seem to be getting different numbers on the latest SimCraft release. I'm running a more thorough simulation now, but at the moment it's devaluing haste by a lot.

Here are the weights I got:

Int: 4.21
Crit: 2.13
Mas: 1.97
Has: 1.93

I'm at a haste break point and I don't have my meta gem, yet. I assume haste will pop back up with the meta and higher ilvl?

[Vlarkin]

So I just did a little experiment and got almost 11k haste. My Scale Factor for haste was all of a sudden 4.02 so I thought ok, its time to stack haste. When I did this. I figured the amount of UVLS and Hydra procs would be higher since I had more haste.. now I didnt really notice with Hydra. But with UVLS.. I recently noticed literally it would NEVER proc.. I did a few tests as I was on a dummy or in a scenario.. and sometimes it would take more than 2 whole DS uses.. so over 2 minutes... for a proc.. when before.. with like.. way less haste.. it seemed to proc on pull and then even a few more times before the next DS was up.. so am I missing something or is this just bad RNG?

Also, when I went and reforged and regemmed to about 11k Haste. I ran a Sim and it took Haste back down to 2ish and had Mastery higher... does this mean I should lower my haste and then go Mastery? Currently I am keeping my haste gems in and reforged to Mastery. Here is my armory is anyone cares to take a look.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yrene/advanced

[Deleted]

Dude.. just reading it sounds amazing. I've imported it and will give it a try in raid finder/at dummy testing.


On a different note:
Here's something that somehow confuses me.

I just simmed my char for a single target dps fight with GoSac and the stats scalingis as follows:
Int - 6.04
Hit - 5.86
SP - 4.89
Mastery - 3.1
Haste 2.66
Crit - 2.28

This would obviously dictate me to go for gems with double secondary stats, instead of int/x, i.e. exp/mastery, because the expertise would be extra hit which would result in hit being free to be reforged into mastery.



Then I did the same thing for a 2-target fight and these are my results:
Int - 8.16
Hit - 8.49
SP - 6.62
Mastery - 4.2
Haste 6.15
Crit - 3.08

So as you can see, Intellect is still pretty strong, but wouldn't be your first choice when it comes to gemming, since haste is scaling extremely strong.
8094 is the haste point I went for, since I can't really get much lower, because of my gear and going for the next doom tick would mean heavy reforging into haste - and exactly here's where my problem starts!
I don't know how to evaluate the results posted above. In a pure single target the thumb rule would apply and mastery would outmatch all the other stats which would result in gemming intellect and int/x. But as soon as there's a change to that scenario (i.e. a 2nd boss mob, adds that live long enough to have doom tick on them a few times, etc.) the stat weights get mixed up pretty bad and will result in the ones I posted second.

So how exactly do I figure out how to gem and how to reforge, since the stat weights might change a bit the better my gear gets.
Am I overthinking this and should just stick to the thumb rule and stack mastery, unless haste outweighs mastery in single target dps, or are my concerns justified?

Stood in the same problem as you, and you are overthinking it! 8100 is a really neat spot, for multi target, haste does pull slightly ahead like council but it's not by miles. The fact you dont have BIS gear, also means you sack a lot of mastery for it thus might end up hurting you. I beat my old #1 log on Council again by a mastery build, despite playing a heavy haste build the other times. It's really RNG and if you don't want to regem / reforge for every boss, a strong 8100 / mastery build is the best overall ToT spec in my opinion. I wanted to go up in haste really fast too, as soon as i got gear, but it didnt feel amazing. You loose all your damage on Lei Shen and Durumu, while the mastery build still stays strong and live for rest of the encounters. I wouldnt even speculate in haste until you reach the 14900 values, but thats my opinion.

Low haste builds make you able to play Destruction, Affliction and Demonology without Reforging and spending a ton of gold for each boss, and the most fun bosses scales the best with those stats regardless : )

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 01:09 AM ----------

So I just did a little experiment and got almost 11k haste. My Scale Factor for haste was all of a sudden 4.02 so I thought ok, its time to stack haste. When I did this. I figured the amount of UVLS and Hydra procs would be higher since I had more haste.. now I didnt really notice with Hydra. But with UVLS.. I recently noticed literally it would NEVER proc.. I did a few tests as I was on a dummy or in a scenario.. and sometimes it would take more than 2 whole DS uses.. so over 2 minutes... for a proc.. when before.. with like.. way less haste.. it seemed to proc on pull and then even a few more times before the next DS was up.. so am I missing something or is this just bad RNG?

Also, when I went and reforged and regemmed to about 11k Haste. I ran a Sim and it took Haste back down to 2ish and had Mastery higher... does this mean I should lower my haste and then go Mastery? Currently I am keeping my haste gems in and reforged to Mastery. Here is my armory is anyone cares to take a look.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yrene/advanced

Dont trust simcraft and RPPM system with haste scaling, its 10.000 tries vs the few pulls you do on a boss :< Last reset i had 3% on jinrokh and 4% on mag on my 2/2 HC TF ULVS, despite that it should increase with ilvl. Game is RNG, simc overvalues haste becasue over 10.000 tries it flattens out the RNG you have killing a boss 20 times in your life!

[Cocobutters]

Make sure you have 2x chaos waves ready for when the walls come up. Keep an eye on your ice wall timers and make sure not to use hand of guldan within 15/30 seconds of icewalls coming depending on current stacks.

Ice walls come up. Dark soul (If you use on pull it should be up for 1st walls), meta, AoE curse of elements, immo aura , chaos wave x2, harvest life. Once you have to start moving you can run around in Meta with Immo Aura up and use Touch of Chaos on the boss, or void ray ice walls if they are dieing slowly. If you have no fury, you can just run around with hellfire. Considering making a video of this soon.

Why would you use chaos wave over two HoG's when the wall lives long enough to get all of the ticks off? Also you should make sure to pool up fury before the ice walls.

[Vlarkin]

Dont trust simcraft and RPPM system with haste scaling, its 10.000 tries vs the few pulls you do on a boss :< Last reset i had 3% on jinrokh and 4% on mag on my 2/2 HC TF ULVS, despite that it should increase with ilvl. Game is RNG, simc overvalues haste becasue over 10.000 tries it flattens out the RNG you have killing a boss 20 times in your life!

Yeah I guess that makes sense.. but then where do I go from here? I mean, I am all about min maxing my damage especially since imo, I am not THAT good at this game. So I want to be able to push out the most dps as possible. Currently, It seems my gear is not good enough to allow me to go Demo/Affliction like I want since Affliction right now without the big haste numbers is just bad from my experience. So that means, I need to stick to Demo/Destro and I cannot be full on haste with Destro can I? That means less damage on CBs and from AoE. So would it be possible to just go back to full on Mastery? Or possible cap my haste at the 8097 Doom tick and then go for mastery? If so, do you think it is more worth it to just redo my gems again and put back in my int gems rather than my haste gems?

[Oohwakamuu]

Quick question. Sacrifice seems to be the best talent at high gear levels for demonology. But I'm only at ilevel 508. Now, Teye said that at lower gear levels, I'm better sticking with Service Felguard, but I wanted some second opinions (especially now that we have the option of upgrading gear again).

Do you think it's viable for someone at my gear level to run sacrifice instead of service? I only play raid finder, but as a former raider I have a hardcore mentality with a casual player's time. I strive for effectiveness. Thanks in advance!

[Deleted]

Did some calculations with Wild Imps and their damage with DS/BotH proc. With 549ilvl BotH you get 9432*1.1*1.05 = ~10900 spellpower when it procs. Wild Imps benefit 34.5% from that per fireball = ~3750 more damage per fireball. You get 30% mastery from DS. I currently have 30% mastery unbuffed and we can use following formula:
(10900+x)*0.345*1.3 = x*0.345*1.6
where:
-x = spellpower needed for DS being superior to BotH
-10900 = SP from BotH
-0.345 = firebolt spellcoefficent
-1.3 = 1+%mastery
-1.6 = 1+%mastery+30% from DS
You would need to have ~47200 spellpower before BotH proc to make DS better than BotH for Wild Imps.
The less mastery you have less spellpower you need to make DS superior, but still with 15% mastery you would need 41700 spellpower. And i don't think you can get to those numbers raidbuffed without any int procs.

What does this mean? I think it's fine to use Imp Swarm with 549ilvl Breath of the Hydra proc even if you are stacking haste. But you have to take into consideration that BotH can proc while DS is up. So question is should you use Imp Swarm if there is like 50seconds till DS comes off cooldown and your 549ilvl BotH procs? Probably.

Edit: forgot that you also get 5% more int from Nethermancy passive which makes BotH proc even little bit better than i calculated.

[Count Zero]

Quick question. Sacrifice seems to be the best talent at high gear levels for demonology. But I'm only at ilevel 508. Now, Teye said that at lower gear levels, I'm better sticking with Service Felguard, but I wanted some second opinions (especially now that we have the option of upgrading gear again).

Do you think it's viable for someone at my gear level to run sacrifice instead of service? I only play raid finder, but as a former raider I have a hardcore mentality with a casual player's time. I strive for effectiveness. Thanks in advance!

My ilvl is a bit higher than yours (518 equipped), but recently I switched back from Sac to Service because I found myself fury-starved on some normal Durumu. A couple of times, using only ToC while popping into Meta (and staying in Meta until the cd was up, so I could pop back into apply Doom if UVLS proc'd), I was just completely out of Fury and didn't even have enough to apply Doom on an UVLS proc. This happened on more than one attempt, so I opted to switch back to Service after the raid.

I think initially my dps was higher with Sac (started with Sac right after I got UVLS), and I don't know why on Durumu I found myself fury-starved, but I don't have that problem with service. If I can reliably count on my meta gem to proc during my opener (or if I get BotH, or start pre-potting haste) so I can get a second imp swarm in between my first and second DSs I will probably go back to service, or if I get a normal-mode UVLS.

But, yeah, in real play, service works better for me at the moment. I have just enough fury to last my opening DS and apply any Dooms I need to immediately after should UVLS not proc during that DS. Oh also, haha this is super relevant, I only have 2 piece, so I imagine 4 piece would also play into Sac being more viable without being fury-starved.

Hope this info helps.

[Oohwakamuu]

Hope this info helps.

It helps a lot! Thank you. It doesn't matter how good a high dps setup is if you don't have the required fury to initiate it. It sounds like I shouldn't even bother with sacrifice until I get the 2 and 4 piece set bonus to make the most use out of fury.

I'm going to try running with sacrifice in raid finder. If I have problems pooling fury, then that will be the answer I'm looking for. Thanks again.

[Jetjaguar]

I really don't like sac for anything other than Council and Ji-Kun. Most fights have something you can use felstorm on which makes service really strong and the fights that don't tend to be worse for demo than the other specs (Jin'rohk). I also don't like that it feels as if the 4pc is a lot more necessary for the opening if you decide to play sac.

[Deleted]

I have a quick question for you demo pro's. I recently returned to my lock and took up demonology.
Currently I find myself in a situation where I often have imps coming of cd and DS being about another 45 secs before I can use it again.
Now normally I would delay the Wild imps if it was something like 20 seconds. However delaying it for that long seems like a dps loss to me.
What would you guys advise? Delaying so the cd's align or just go ahead and use it anyway even though DS has another 45 seconds before it comes of cd.
The main reason for this is I thought the idea was to maximize the amount of time Wild imps is up. Delaying it would seem counter-productive

Thanks for the replies

[Deleted]

I made a pretty nice WA for those who like to line their Imp Swarms with DS.

It does sound very nice indeed, however the 'use wild swarm now!' icon doesn't seem to show up for me. Imps cd one shows up, can't say about the berserking one since I'm not a troll. I'm not new to WA but I have no clue what is wrong. Has anyone else tried to import it?

EDIT: NM, it sort of works now, just not exactly the way I expected it to.

[Biomega]

I have a quick question for you demo pro's. I recently returned to my lock and took up demonology.
Currently I find myself in a situation where I often have imps coming of cd and DS being about another 45 secs before I can use it again.
Now normally I would delay the Wild imps if it was something like 20 seconds. However delaying it for that long seems like a dps loss to me.
What would you guys advise? Delaying so the cd's align or just go ahead and use it anyway even though DS has another 45 seconds before it comes of cd.
The main reason for this is I thought the idea was to maximize the amount of time Wild imps is up. Delaying it would seem counter-productive

Thanks for the replies

From what I understand, it is always beneficial to delay Imp Swarm for use in conjunction with DS, *unless* you can get in a full cooldown in between (very high haste levels + procs). Keep in mind that you will get some Wild Imps from Demonic Calling while Imp Swarm is waiting to be used, so it's not entirely wasted.

[Visros]

I have a question concerning MC procs and Meta. I've seen in some other guides to use MC procs in Meta and only use ToC to update corruption. What is the proper way to handle MC: Only use in caster form or use in Meta and ToC when corruption is low? Thanks for the help.