Theramore was a fair target.

[Orcbert]

I'm confused by the Ally's claim that Theramore was a peaceful city. It was strategic post that was very close to Org. If it had actually acted as a neutral city and removed itself from the war effort then I could see why they would be angry when it was bombed, but they used it as a launching point to attack the Horde on many occasions. Using this base, the Alliance was spreading into the Barrens and wiping out small Horde towns including a peaceful Tauren hunting town. Camp Tarajo was a slaughter of mostly civilians.

Why would the Horde not have a reason to wipe out Theramore? How many innocents should they let the human soldiers kill?

[Confirm Deny]

Recent discussions in the "How will the orcs redeem themselves" thread may have also debated the fact that Garrosh tried to ensure there were as many military targets and as few civilians as possible in Theramore (so as not to completely conflict with his stance on that nuke that got used in Stonetalon in Cataclysm) to validate the view that Theramore was a legitimate military target. I haven't checked the pages in that thread.

[leaks]

I think it has something to do with the Alliance's victim complex.

[Mic_128]

I think the argument isn't so much whether it was a fair target or not, but the fact it was nuked by theft and deception, rather than the 'honour' Garrosh'd been preaching. Thy at least gave time for civilians to be evac'd.

[Tierbook]

Recent discussions in the "How will the orcs redeem themselves" thread may have also debated the fact that Garrosh tried to ensure there were as many military targets and as few civilians as possible in Theramore (so as not to completely conflict with his stance on that nuke that got used in Stonetalon in Cataclysm) to validate the view that Theramore was a legitimate military target. I haven't checked the pages in that thread.

wasnt he calling them together for a peace conference though?

[Vulpei]

Yay, another attempt to justify Horde bloodthirstyness as a misunderstanding.

[DeicideUH]

I'm confused by the Ally's claim that Theramore was a peaceful city.

The thing about Theramore is that it was ruled by Jaina, the person in the Alliance that has strived for peace since the beginning, and even helped the Horde stablish itself in Durotar. By attacking it, Garrosh just sent a message that peace was impossible. It doesn't help that he used cowardly means (which included deception and using and killing members of neutral parties like Kirin Tor and the Blue Dragons) to achieve victory.

It was strategic post that was very close to Org. If it had actually acted as a neutral city and removed itself from the war effort then I could see why they would be angry when it was bombed, but they used it as a launching point to attack the Horde on many occasions.

Also, the only reason Theramore was fighting the Horde was because it needed to help the Night Elves against the Horde invasion in the Barrens. Essentially, Garrosh forced Theramore's hand, thus making Theramore a military target.

Using this base, the Alliance was spreading into the Barrens and wiping out small Horde towns including a peaceful Tauren hunting town. Camp Tarajo was a slaughter of mostly civilians.

Not the Taurajo event again! Taurajo was actually housing and training Horde parties that were attacking the Alliance, which was actually making a road to Ashenvalle throught Stonetalon to help the elves. And the attack on Taurajo actually did the best to spare civilians, including leaving an opening so civilians could escape unharmed.

I didn't read the book, but does the Blue Flight respond in any way to the Horde murdering a group of them to steal a dangerous artifact?

No, because the Dragons had disbanded by the end of it.

[7seti]

Turning that argument on its head, you could just as easily say Orgrimmar was a strategic post very close to Ashenvale. It's been used to attack the Alliance on many occasions. Let's nuke it, shall we?

[yetgdhfgh]

Legitimate Military target

It was supplying men and materials into a war zone plus alot of the soldiers were just waiting for an excuse to attack the horde just go there and see the disgrunted soldiers

Had it been allowed to stay the alliance couldve broken through the great gate and attacked Thunderbluff

---------- Post added 2013-05-28 at 03:20 AM ----------

Turning that argument on its head, you could just as easily say Orgrimmar was a strategic post very close to Ashenvale. It's been used to attack the Alliance on many occasions. Let's nuke it, shall we?

Why dont you? Whats stopping you?

I would actually applaud the alliance for doing so cause that would show some actual military strategy

[Dreknar20]

(which included deception and using and killing members of neutral parties like Kirin Tor

deception - as in how Varian wins over Horde forces near the Red Crane Temple?
Kirion Tor went into battle against the Horde not the other way around, because by their logic not supporting either side is somehow supporting someone

[Elysia]

Thy at least gave time for civilians to be evac'd.

He wasn't giving them time for civilians to be evacuated. He was waiting long enough for a large majority of the Alliance fleet and prestigious members of the Kirin Tor to show up.

[Dreknar20]

Legitimate Military target

Honestly that does not even matter.
The only thing that matter is whether its an Alliance city or not. Since Theramore is indeed an Alliance city, its thus legit for the Horde to attack it.
That is the ONLY actual reason you need

[DeicideUH]

deception - as in how Varian wins over Horde forces near the Red Crane Temple?

Varian didn't use deception. As I know, he was very clear: He was there without an army. He baited the orcs into coming out of a stronger position. The orcs were just too dumb and bloodthirst to actually stay in their defended position.

Varian didn't send them poisoned food, or an impostor with a bomb to kill them all.

Kirion Tor went into battle against the Horde not the other way around, because by their logic not supporting either side is somehow supporting someone

Kirin Tor went there as a statement that they were against the war. They were aiding only on defenses, and they had Horde members backing them up (too bad those Horde members were actually traitors using the Kirin Tor to harm the Alliance).

[Socialhealer]

Turning that argument on its head, you could just as easily say Orgrimmar was a strategic post very close to Ashenvale. It's been used to attack the Alliance on many occasions. Let's nuke it, shall we?

i don't know why doesn't the alliance? hell if it's so easy to nuke, why aren't all capital cities in wow nuked already? i mean it's a war after all.

[Dreknar20]

Varian didn't use deception. As I know, he was very clear: He was there without an army. He baited the orcs into coming out of a stronger position. The orcs were just too dumb and bloodthirst to actually stay in their defended position..

as in he used deception to lure the Horde into into prepared defenses

---------- Post added 2013-05-28 at 03:32 AM ----------

Kirin Tor went there as a statement that they were against the war. They were aiding only on defenses

aiding in the defense by killing Horde, why should the Horde not kill them in return?

[DeicideUH]

as in he used deception to lure the Horde into into prepared defenses

Varian: "Hey, I'm here alone with just these adventurers. There is no army here". (Actually the truth)

Those orcs were just too dumb to live.

[Goretex]

Damn right it was a fair target! Kalimdor is ours!

[TheRickyB]

The thing about Theramore is that it was ruled by Jaina, the person in the Alliance that has strived for peace since the beginning, and even helped the Horde stablish itself in Durotar. By attacking it, Garrosh just sent a message that peace was impossible. It doesn't help that he used cowardly means (which included deception and using and killing members of neutral parties like Kirin Tor and the Blue Dragons) to achieve victory.



Also, the only reason Theramore was fighting the Horde was because it needed to help the Night Elves against the Horde invasion in the Barrens. Essentially, Garrosh forced Theramore's hand, thus making Theramore a military target.



Not the Taurajo event again! Taurajo was actually housing and training Horde parties that were attacking the Alliance, which was actually making a road to Ashenvalle throught Stonetalon to help the elves. And the attack on Taurajo actually did the best to spare civilians, including leaving an opening so civilians could escape unharmed.



No, because the Dragons had disbanded by the end of it.

Wait wait wait. so Theremore was HELPING THE NIGHT ELVES? and you think we arent justified in attacking a city ACTIVELY helping our enemies? you alliance are so funny LOL

[Deleted]

Fair target, ofc it was. Tho they killed every chance for peace by doing so. Thus proving how bloodthirsty and stupid the orcs are.

And to bring in the Kirin Tor in the fight as active participants are also stupid. But hey, even the horde understand how stupid the orcs are. Its just the orcs themselves who dont see it.

[kendro1200]

Legitimate Military target

It was supplying men and materials into a war zone plus alot of the soldiers were just waiting for an excuse to attack the horde just go there and see the disgrunted soldiers

Had it been allowed to stay the alliance couldve broken through the great gate and attacked Thunderbluff

---------- Post added 2013-05-28 at 03:20 AM ----------

Why dont you? Whats stopping you?

I would actually applaud the alliance for doing so cause that would show some actual military strategy

Had WoW not actually existed and we had gone from WC3 to WC4 instead, Org would have been torched already. The only reason Org still stands is because WoW exists, I hope people never forget this (same can be said about the Undercity and Silvermoon). The city is placed in a resource barren canyon that has easy high ground access from the rear just begging for the WC3 iteration of Night Elves to come in and rain hell on the entire city. If WC4 ever happens Org is probably going to get razed (probably in the first handful of NE missions) and the Orcs are going to be forced to move once again, but this time to the south, probably closer to Thunderbluff.

But yeah, I'm really hoping that someone writes a character that the dev and lore team really likes for the Alliance soon, once that happens we're pretty solid, as has been proven with Sylvanas, Thrall, Garrosh and Lothar. If the Alliance got another Lothar, or if we got Illidan (I think Metzen would forget all about Thrall if he got to have free reign over a redemption xpack on Illidan, he'd probably have Illidan solo all of the UC, give it to the Alliance, have Malfurion come in and yell at him, then he'd run off and cry about how it's never enough and then go cause genocide on another Horde settlement with the "little train who thought-he-could" mentality. Seriously, Metzen would probably BBQ Thunderbluff through Illidan under the pretense of a redemption story if someone let him, try him) we'd be set for quite some time and then Horde-side would get to see what's its like to be on the losing end of the dev's teams new lore pet-project.