How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

[darkminaz]

i'd give a buff to normal mode
with a npc that tags along for some bosses and gives them a debuff, usable for 3 bosses .. that way you can kinda skip some of the bosses that stop you on the way

then again i personaly kinda like the way it is right now, even if i'm currently only at uhm ..some hc ^^ .. blue troll-twins so animus,lei-shenshen and radenlol still left (and personaly the durumur hc acievment^^)

[Deleted]

it means top 20% of raiders, good buddy. That's amazing.

Don't believe you for a second.

Oh sorry, it's 750k damage to everyone.

"easily recoverable" lol

top 33% of raiders actually. Top 33% is hardly amazing.

If you actually bothered to learn the fight you would notice that the orb deals 750k within 8 yards damage if it comes into contact with the electrified waters. If you are in an established guild every in the raid knows not to stand in the giant puddle of lightning that hurts you. Therefor, that is completely irrelevant as the only person that would possibly be in range for that AoE is that player himself.

If the ball detonates inside a conductive water, it deals 175k damage within 8 yards and an additional 175k to anyone inside the water. that is 350k to players within 8 yards.

However if you just tell that player to stand outside of waters at all times until he learns the mechanic (which seems fairly reasonable that any smart raid leader would tell a new player this).

The worst thing that can happen then is he drags the ball over a lightning fissure dealing 250k damage to the raid. Hardly a raid wipe.

[Kiqjaq]

it means top 20% of raiders, good buddy. That's amazing.

12/12 by now isn't amazing at all, it's just a bare minimum competence.

[Ferocity]

I do not see how you draw that conclusion. Those people were in the group. So obviously they were pugging ToT. If they chose to leave before the instance was over, that is their decision.

Tbh it starts becoming tiresome to listen how 5 blue geared people can easily do stone guards or that you can pug 12/12 ToT. Just try and roll on some non top server and try find or make successful pug which will kill more than Jin'rokh. And by pug I mean - don't whisper to any raiding guild if they have any spot for you to take as a pug.

Basically, WoW's community is, and pretty much always has been, a big festering pile of glory-seeking, exclusionary piles of shit. This general mentality is why I've never tried to get into raiding. The people who ARE into it, seem to put off this viciously negative attitude, and me, as a person with severe social anxiety, who breaks out into panic attacks fairly damned easy over trivial things, just can't deal with thinking about this kind of absurd pressure in a videogame.

I think you started to play in Cata It wasn't always like this. There were better times. But what was once laughed and frowned upon (some raiding guilds' attitude) is now supported by current raid design. Too bad that Blizzard pretends to ignore it and prefers to listen to people who are seemingly 5-manning raids in blues and doing full raid clears in pug.

Too bad that in reality they can't 5-men raids, otherwise they wouldn't be saying that recruitment is hard. Why do they even complain about recruitment? They can 5-men raids in blues, it is so easy. They can pug full raid clears. They shouldn't complain about recruitment (lol they don't even really know how hard it is to do recruitment on any non-top server now).

[owbu]

According to GC the people, whose playstyle isnt covered really well right now is family and friends guilds, who mostly do 10s (not alot of 25 guilds without heroicmode intentions).

Nerfing normals/making 10s easier would give them content but take away content from other guilds creating the same problem again.

So I guess the solution would have to be a new difficulty of some form.

My suggestion would be, since we have a 25 lfr already, to add some kind of hybrid lfr/guildrun 10 man mode. Harder than lfr, easier than normal. With the possibility to get some people from the randompool, but also with a core of players knowing each other. Just like the half guild half tradechannel pugs from wrath, that I have very found memorys of.
Something like your guild needs to build a group ( at least a tank,a heal and 3dds) and the system will fill up the slots you need for you.

[Deleted]

Too bad that in reality they can't 5-men raids, otherwise they wouldn't be saying that recruitment is hard. Why do they even complain about recruitment? They can 5-men raids in blues, it is so easy. They can pug full raid clears. They shouldn't complain about recruitment (lol they don't even really know how hard it is to do recruitment on any non-top server now).

Geez. Arent we dramatic. The only boss I said was 5 mannable in relevant gear was stone guards. Rest of the instance you probably needed atleast 8 people or so without overgearing it.

The problem is you cant 8 man heroic raids, and you got to recruit to that. Should not be that hard to understand. You can carry anyone through normals without sweating, but why carry someone through normals when they wont be able to carry their weight when you actually reach heroics, so you will have to replace them anyway. Better to recruit good players early.

[Osmeric]

12/12 by now isn't amazing at all, it's just a bare minimum competence.

Right now, it's less than 9000 NA/EU guilds. A bit over 100K players, maybe.

If the "bare minimum competence" is such a small population, that means the vast majority is not sufficiently competent for the contents. Which means, pretty much by definition, that the content is too hard.

---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 01:51 PM ----------

According to GC the people, whose playstyle isnt covered really well right now is family and friends guilds, who mostly do 10s (not alot of 25 guilds without heroicmode intentions).

Nerfing normals/making 10s easier would give them content but take away content from other guilds creating the same problem again.

So I guess the solution would have to be a new difficulty of some form.

Or, nerf normals, then nerf heroics to fill that hole, and then tell the tiny number of people for whom current heroic raids are good that they are just out of luck.

[Ferocity]

According to GC the people, whose playstyle isnt covered really well right now is family and friends guilds, who mostly do 10s (not alot of 25 guilds without heroicmode intentions).

Nerfing normals/making 10s easier would give them content but take away content from other guilds creating the same problem again.

So I guess the solution would have to be a new difficulty of some form.

It wouldn't take content from any guild, it's a myth. Guilds with heroic intentions have heroic modes, they shouldn't care about normal modes at all, and it is not like they are prohibited from doing normals the way they do it now. Adding another difficulty isn't really good. Normals should be brought back to what they were before, they should be given back to family/friends guilds.

[Kiqjaq]

Right now, it's less than 9000 NA/EU guilds. A bit over 100K players, maybe.

If the "bare minimum competence" is such a small population, that means the vast majority is not sufficiently competent for the contents. Which means, pretty much by definition, that the content is too hard.

Or it just means that the vast majority of people are incompetent.
Which I actually consider quite believable.

[Osmeric]

Or it just means that the vast majority of people are incompetent.
Which I actually consider quite believable.

So, if content is overtuned, we can always prove it isn't, just by labeling those for whom it's too hard "incompetent"?

Stunning logic, champ! I'm sure the bean counters at Blizzard will be all over it.

[Floopa]

So, if content is overtuned, we can always prove it isn't, just by labeling those for whom it's too hard "incompetent"?

Stunning logic, champ! I'm sure the bean counters at Blizzard will be all over it.

Does it matter if people are required a certain level of ... intellect/competency/skill (whatever you want to call it) to clear normal modes? If people suck they have LFR. If people suck, and don't want to get better, then they don't deserve anything other than LFR.

[Deleted]

top 33% of raiders actually. Top 33% is hardly amazing.

Yeah, it is.

If you actually bothered to learn the fight you would notice that the orb deals 750k within 8 yards damage if it comes into contact with the electrified waters. If you are in an established guild every in the raid knows not to stand in the giant puddle of lightning that hurts you. Therefor, that is completely irrelevant as the only person that would possibly be in range for that AoE is that player himself.

If the ball detonates inside a conductive water, it deals 175k damage within 8 yards and an additional 175k to anyone inside the water. that is 350k to players within 8 yards.

However if you just tell that player to stand outside of waters at all times until he learns the mechanic (which seems fairly reasonable that any smart raid leader would tell a new player this).

The worst thing that can happen then is he drags the ball over a lightning fissure dealing 250k damage to the raid. Hardly a raid wipe.

Ah yes, as long as everyone else plays completely perfectly and the new guy follows any instructions given perfectly then theres going to be no issues.

You can say that about anything, including brain surgery. ;p

you aren't worth interacting with. Toodles.

[Floopa]

Yeah, it is.





Ah yes, as long as everyone else plays completely perfectly and the new guy follows any instructions given perfectly then theres going to be no issues.

You can say that about anything, including brain surgery. ;p

you aren't worth interacting with. Toodles.

So raids should be designed around people not doing the mechanics correctly?

Jesus.

[D4NNYB0Y]

Or it just means that the vast majority of people are incompetent.
Which I actually consider quite believable.

You know that this is a video game right?

[Definition]

it means top 20% of raiders, good buddy. That's amazing.

You are not a good player if you do normal modes, It doesn't matter how many statistics you look at, they're still faceroll.

[D4NNYB0Y]

So raids should be designed around people not doing the mechanics correctly?

Jesus.

Normal raids should be designed so that, in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of skill/effort, the average organized raiding guild can complete them. Currently they are not, and thus players are leaving the raiding pool in droves; this is very bad for anyone who enjoys raiding.

If this keeps up your entire hobby is going to die: this can already be seen with GW2 and ESO's focus on dungeons as their endgame. The industry is moving away from the raiding endgame model.

[Deleted]

So raids should be designed around people not doing the mechanics correctly?

Jesus.

Should normal mode raids be designed with redundancy in mind so that the less than stellar or new guys have a shot at learning how to raid without being a mortal danger to everyone else?

Fuck yes they should. Theres heroic modes for the people who want perfection where fun should should be.

[D4NNYB0Y]

You are not a good player if you do normal modes, It doesn't matter how many statistics you look at, they're still faceroll.

Looks like only the .01% of players that do Heroic Raids are good players then. I swear you guys are your own worst enemy.

[Floopa]

Should normal mode raids be designed with redundancy in mind so that the less than stellar or new guys have a shot at learning how to raid without being a mortal danger to everyone else?

Fuck yes they should. Theres heroic modes for the people who want perfection where fun should should be.

Normal modes don't require perfection. Nor do heroic modes actually.

[Deleted]

Normal modes don't require perfection. Nor do heroic modes actually.

I'm glad you agree that normal modes should be detuned.