Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks

[Kraenen]

What am I dodging? blanks?

no you're not dodging anything

HEY LOOK OVER THERE EVERYONE ITS BIG FOOT

[Olo]

Reading is comprehension, Replying seems not to be.

It's legal IF we allow it. If we decide, WE decide, we don't want to allow it it will be illegal.

And we've allowed this to be legal by electing the people we did.

[Rukentuts]

How are you measuring Obama as the worst president ever?

Civil rights?
Economics?
Foreign policy?

Kenyan Islamic aptitude tests?

[Komati]

Hero.
The illegal observations of people is a digusting violation of human rights. It's the kind of thing we condemmed the CCCP and DDR for doing.

"The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists" - Winston Churchill.

[Orbitus]

And every person in this thread know that if this was 6 years ago you would be ranting about impeaching Bush the war criminal for it.

Probably because he did something illegal. You know like declaring war on a country without solid proof there were WMDs in Iraq, just whispers. He was fed a bunch of bullshit by Cheney but Bush sold it to congress and the American people. Now he has what 50,000 civilian deaths and what 4000 soldiers deaths on his hands? What Bush did was illegal.

[GreatOak]

These are two different things. If an action is legal it can't be abusing power because you're just using the power you're given.

You're right, but it just comes down to semantics in the end. They have that power but still cause abuse with it.

[kunah]

We all know they took it too far and what's legal is what WE let them do.

Obamaites seem to have a problem with anything that reflects poorly on the worst president ever, that is you.

I was wondering how long it would take to blame Obama.

[Wells]

You're right, but it just comes down to semantics in the end. They have that power but still cause abuse with it.

The Executive's job isn't to check its own power. Their job is to execute the law with in the confines given to them by the Legislative and Judicial. If the Executive has too much power its not their fault that they're using it.

[zito]

Maybe I didn't read enough of his leaks but how does an american who worked in america revealing to other Americans that the gov't is spying on them make him a traitor?

They are throwing traitor at him to cover their own asses. Like always.

[Rukentuts]

The Executive's job isn't to check its own power. Their job is to execute the law with in the confines given to them by the Legislative and Judicial. If the Executive has too much power its not their fault that they're using it.

And the top two Senators from each party said this program works.

So good luck repealing the Patriot Act.

[Wells]

Maybe I didn't read enough of his leaks but how does an american who worked in america revealing to other Americans that the gov't is spying on them make him a traitor?

Somehow people outside the US manage to get access to US media.

[zito]

Somehow people outside the US manage to get access to US media.

I don't disagree what he did was illegal, but classifying him as a traitor? That's just to save their own incompetence.

[Wells]

I don't disagree what he did was illegal, but classifying him as a traitor? That's just to save their own incompetence.

Its not hard to argue that divulging state secrets in a way that our enemies can find out about is aiding the enemy.

[GreatOak]

Worst president ever? please.

You either have zero knowledge about American history or you're just full of it.

He's not the worst, but definitely the most disappointing. The bar was pretty damned low after Bush left. Grant, Harding, Pierce, Buchanan, Coolidge, Hoover, Wilson, and about 5 more were worse than Obama.

[GreatOak]

Right, this is legal because we allow it to be. I support the program and don't care that it was started under Bush and continued under Obama.

At least you're willing to say you support wiretapping unlike some people who are either too scared or blinded by partisan politics to say so.

[zito]

Its not hard to argue that divulging state secrets in a way that our enemies can find out about is aiding the enemy.

That is if you want to debate revealing the gov't collects phone records and spys on us classifies as aiding the enemy. Unless it starts another civil war It shouldn't be classified as "traitor"

If he sold it to "the enemy" which contained gov't information which could harm the states then yes. But I don't see how revealing to the states that you are being spied on by your own people is classified as traitorous

[Wells]

He's not the worst, but definitely the most disappointing. The bar was pretty damned low after Bush left. Grant, Harding, Pierce, Buchanan, Coolidge, Hoover, Wilson, and about 5 more were worse than Obama.

Disappointing seems impossible to determine really. I mean you could say Adams was more so for the Alien and Sedition Act, since that was in the same ball park as this but far more egregious.

[Rukentuts]

He's not the worst, but definitely the most disappointing. The bar was pretty damned low after Bush left. Grant, Harding, Pierce, Buchanan, Coolidge, Hoover, Wilson, and about 5 more were worse than Obama.

So the Legislative Branch hoses up everything, and he executes the laws already there, and we can call him disappointing how?

You really wanted to say something's disappointing? Try 60 votes for getting anything done in the Senate.

[Wells]

That is if you want to debate revealing the gov't collects phone records and spys on us classifies as aiding the enemy. Unless it starts another civil war It shouldn't be classified as "traitor"

If he sold it to "the enemy" which contained gov't information which could harm the states then yes. But I don't see how revealing to the states that you are being spied on is classified as traitorous

I don't really care what your pet definition of the word is.

[zito]

I don't really care what your pet definition of the word is.

It's not about my "pet" definition. It's about how the actual definition of traitor is being used.

What he did was illegal yes.

Gov't calling him a traitor when they have been recording our messages, emails, phone calls for decades? Bull fucking shit.