5.4 KJC changes.

[SLSAMG]

and i don´t understand whats the problem with PVE

I stopped reading after this. *facepalm*

[Jetjaguar]

Except I honestly dont see UVLS as BIS with the demo set bonuses ( buffing pet damage means you will use supremacy/service, not sac ( which greatly reduces the effectiveness of UVLS in and of itself )

This isn't true at all.

[Hegemonia]

If they do nerf KJC I'm simply quitting the game. I have just one lvl 90 char and its my beloved lock.

I'm not trying to do anything with this statement but to show how much fun this skill is for me. It is not OP, locks are pretty weak in PvP and if they do this I am done with the game.

I just hope that this is not another of these PvE nerfs that will make pure PvP people like me with no time for more than 1 chars just quit the game.

[Jessicka]

Yes, but they balanced affliction around MALEFIC GRASP damage now. It used to be DOT damage. Movement was never awful for a dot class until they decided to make a filler channel increase the dot damage, so they nerfed the dot damage.

So to compensate, Affliction's stationary damage is rather higher than almost every other spec in the game. On the one hand people are complaining about the loss because of snapshotting making Fel Flame bad; so I say to use Life Tap, on the other you're saying DoT damage is weak anyway and it's all tied to MG, in which case move during instants you'd be casting anyway. It's one argument laughing at the other.

How did any of you cope pre-Fel Flame? This is -exactly- what I was talking about earlier in the thread about how passives should never outperform the good use of active abilities and how I'm glad the talent is getting nerfed.

I was half joking when I said earlier about FOTM rerollers; but this just confirms it. It really is annoying to hear players saying how they love the class for a single game breaking ability above anything else.

[Zathrendar]

Perhaps they just like the playstyle better. I enjoyed the casting on the move in GW2.

[Szarala]

All rogue lvl 90 talents are things ret pallys get baseline and the rogue versions are worse. You are not the only ones to get crap talents.

..and yet I have never heard a rogue say (this expansion) "gee, I wish I was more like Ret". I'm having a hard time understanding your point bringing rogues into this.

That said fulltime casting while moving on everything was a terrible idea.

Exclusive to one class (let's just ignore hunters for a bit), perhaps. I'm personally of the opinion that mobile casting in general is an evolution of the game.

[Cocobutters]

Except I honestly dont see UVLS as BIS with the demo set bonuses ( buffing pet damage means you will use supremacy/service, not sac ( which greatly reduces the effectiveness of UVLS in and of itself ), and the fact that imps are considered guardians and will not benefit from such a set bonus ). UVLS however will likely be BIS for affliction with the t16 2pc set bonus.

Its not about how damage being "decent without it". As affliction, our damage is NOT decent without it, in fact its quite pitiful. Demo and destro have ways around it ( conflags, and fel flame being nearly as effective as an incinerate for destro, and touch of chaos / hand of gul'dan as demo ). Affliction will literally be a dead spec if this change makes it live, without a doubt. Not to mention the fact that the only viable talent choice is now Archimondes Vengeance which we all know is a complete joke by the fact that literally no body has used it in PVE since beta.

We'll have to see what the trinkets are like in t16 before we determine that. Of course we'll use GOServ or GOSup GOSup once we get 2peice also. The only thing I have to say about not being able to play affliction is oh well, that spec can just be on par with boomkins or spriests on heavy movement fights if you choose to play it.

[Doktor Faustus]

All I saw was

Patch Notes:

Warlocks fun factor nerfed by 700%

Me too.

Yet again I shall have to change my Warlock playstyle. Every year I get used to it and every year they change it.

Progress? Nope.

Perhaps make it for Destro that it does not work with CB, and whatever the equivalent Demo/Affli talent is.

15 seconds of free movement, and I assume with the movement speed penalty? Wow, just a trash talent.

Thankfully this is only PTR, there is hope for 5.4 live yet...

[Gihelle]

We'll have to see what the trinkets are like in t16 before we determine that. Of course we'll use GOServ or GOSup GOSup once we get 2peice also. The only thing I have to say about not being able to play affliction is oh well, that spec can just be on par with boomkins or spriests on heavy movement fights if you choose to play it.

I see Sup becoming the Grimoire of choice with 2p - the Service pet is also a guardian, isn't it?

[Szarala]

Perhaps they just like the playstyle better.

dunno why some people are having trouble understanding this simple thing

[xskarma]

I was half joking when I said earlier about FOTM rerollers; but this just confirms it. It really is annoying to hear players saying how they love the class for a single game breaking ability above anything else.

I suggest we steer this conversation away from any such assumptions. Being for or against this change has nothing to do with how long you've played the class, or how much your love for the class is "real". There will also be no tolerance for people making this whole nerf or not debate into a personal vendetta against the other side of the argument.

People like being a warlock for diffferent reasons, which may or may not be the reasons you like them. I suggest people let others have their opinions without flaming them.

[Paarthurnax]

So basically Blizzard is reverting our lvl 90 tier of talents back to 5.0 levels of worthlessness...

[Gihelle]

I suggest we steer this conversation away from any such assumptions. Being for or against this change has nothing to do with how long you've played the class, or how much your love for the class is "real". There will also be no tolerance for people making this whole nerf or not debate into a personal vendetta against the other side of the argument.

People like being a warlock for diffferent reasons, which may or may not be the reasons you like them. I suggest people let others have their opinions without flaming them.

Personally, I've been a warlock since halfway through Vanilla (I thought being a Moonkin was a good idea at the time, it wasn't, rerolled, never came back), and KJC did add a lot on the fun factor.

I never really needed the talent as being a heavy PvPer before MoP made me learn how to move from things effectively, so at least for me, it's not gonna be much of a change.

Then again from the looks of it Affliction will be the spec that takes the biggest blow, and it's personally my least favorite spec. (and the Affliction set bonuses don't help the case at all, they seem to add more RNG to the spec than anything. I hate how Haunt works this expansion.)

[Wow]

..and yet I have never heard a rogue say (this expansion) "gee, I wish I was more like Ret". I'm having a hard time understanding your point bringing rogues into this.

I didn't say they'd want to be ret I said ret got rogues lvl 90 talents baseline. The point is that they can and have given people worse versions of baseline abilities for talents.

Exclusive to one class (let's just ignore hunters for a bit), perhaps. I'm personally of the opinion that mobile casting in general is an evolution of the game.

Hunters only cast 1 thing so it hard to really call that full time casting while moving with everything. They cast steady and cobra vs how many things are locks casting while moving? Anyway locks being able to cast one thing while moving like hunters or ele would be fine but everything is little much.

[Zathrendar]

Exclusive to one class (let's just ignore hunters for a bit), perhaps. I'm personally of the opinion that mobile casting in general is an evolution of the game.

Agreed. You will get people who prefer static casting, and I think KJC with a mild damage nerf would satisfy both crowds as that'd retain its optionality. I don't enjoy static casting anymore, TBH. It's fine in games like D&D with ample defensive spells, but even that ruleset has all but eliminated it.

[Deleted]

I'm fine with every change as long as they give us something better to cast while moving than Fel Flame. 90 level talents will be useless, but I don't mind. It's just stupid if we 'have to' use 2 talent abilities(KjC and Burning Rush) everytime we move.

[luckydevours]

So to compensate, Affliction's stationary damage is rather higher than almost every other spec in the game.

That's just plain wrong! The times when Affliction was number one in single target situations are gone since 5.2 has been released.

On the one hand people are complaining about the loss because of snapshotting making Fel Flame bad; so I say to use Life Tap, on the other you're saying DoT damage is weak anyway and it's all tied to MG, in which case move during instants you'd be casting anyway. It's one argument laughing at the other.

Are you joking? How is this even connected to each other? Yes, dots are weaker now in comparison to our main nukes than they were in previous expansions. But since we have stronger cooldowns and more procs than ever before in combination with Pandemic rolling boosted dots as long as possible is still a big part of our damage. And due to the fact that channeling Malefic Grasp without intermission accounts to as far as the other 50% of our damage every second of movement heavily punishes our damage distribution if Fel Flame is not an option because of dot snapshotting. And dont tell me you cannot follow this simple line of argumentation.

[Rustjive]

So to compensate, Affliction's stationary damage is rather higher than almost every other spec in the game.

No, it isn't. This hasn't been the case for all of T15.

[luckydevours]

Hunters only cast 1 thing so it hard to really call that full time casting while moving with everything. They cast steady and cobra vs how many things are locks casting while moving? Anyway locks being able to cast one thing while moving like hunters or ele would be fine but everything is little much.

Hunters can do almost everything while moving. Most abilities are instant and focus regenerators can be casted while moving. The only exeptions as far as i know are the lvl 90 talents, so it's basically the same as warlocks having KjC.

[sorix]

i liked when warlocks had procs that made things insta cast.. with that being gone, its kind of lame, specifically for destro and affliction.. destro i have 2 insta casts, conflag with 2 charges and fel flame which i can cast 6 times before im oom.. i dont mind the nerf, but they need to do something to compenstate the damage loss, which isnt even being discussed.. i mean, i am just going to love standing there casting a 2.6s chaos bolt, 1.0s incinerate and a 1.5ish immolate.. oh wait, we do have insta rof.. that i have to put up every 7 freaking seconds... /sigh