5.4 KJC changes.

[Nazmina]

So basically Blizzard is reverting our lvl 90 tier of talents back to 5.0 levels of worthlessness...

Oh no much worse, especially MF, which used to work with non dmg spells prior to 5.1. Now it only affects our dmg spells for a short time.

[Szarala]

I didn't say they'd want to be ret I said ret got rogues lvl 90 talents baseline. The point is that they can and have given people worse versions of baseline abilities for talents.

Even if you consider them to be watered down versions of something another class has, that doesn't matter. What matter is how it impacts -your- class. The rogue talents, even if you consider them to be lackluster, still add something to rogues they didn't already have.

Hunters only cast 1 thing so it hard to really call that full time casting while moving with everything. They cast steady and cobra vs how many things are locks casting while moving? Anyway locks being able to cast one thing while moving like hunters or ele would be fine but everything is little much.

On my MM hunter, with the aimed shot glyph the only thing I can't do while moving is rez a pet. Anything and everything DPS related can be done on the move.

As for locks, if the complaint is being able to cast -everything- and just one thing would be fine, deal. Let the "fillers" be castable on the move and turn KJC into something else entirely. I think any lock would take that.

[Infernix]

Even if you consider them to be watered down versions of something another class has, that doesn't matter. What matter is how it impacts -your- class. The rogue talents, even if you consider them to be lackluster, still add something to rogues they didn't already have.




On my MM hunter, with the aimed shot glyph the only thing I can't do while moving is rez a pet. Anything and everything DPS related can be done on the move.

As for locks, if the complaint is being able to cast -everything- and just one thing would be fine, deal. Let the "fillers" be castable on the move and turn KJC into something else entirely. I think any lock would take that.

I'd be very okay with this.

[Deleted]

All I saw was
Patch Notes:
Warlocks fun factor nerfed by 700%

Sorry but i had to take this as a sig. Pure brilliance!

[Terahertz]

I'd be very okay with this.

I think the main reason why they nerfed it is because warlocks are getting howl baseline, which allows them to get another CC in PvP, and having to deal with moving warlocks who cast fear on the move + howl + stun/horror is really, a lot to deal with.

I reckon this nerf was more of a PvP nerf/change.

[Spektroman]

How did any of you cope pre-Fel Flame?

In two ways:

1) nightfall proccing an instant shadow bolt
2) our dots not sucking

Affliction used to be king in multidot fights, and mediocre in single target fights. With this nerf and being unable to cast Malefic Grasp to boost our dots whenever any movement happens, we'll be mediocre in both. That doesn't make much sense to me. I'd rather they changed it back to how it was in wrath.

[Szarala]

I think the main reason why they nerfed it is because warlocks are getting howl baseline, which allows them to get another CC in PvP, and having to deal with moving warlocks who cast fear on the move + howl + stun/horror is really, a lot to deal with.

I reckon this nerf was more of a PvP nerf/change.

I fail to see how having baseline howl compensates for the massive effect on pve. Really, were the pvpers even -asking- for baseline howl?

[superdooper]

I'm astonished by some of the comments suggesting that losing KJC will not affect dps significantly. As of right now, every boss can be DPS'd 100% of the time (except Meg), and almost every boss requires substantial movement. I can't imagine how horrible destro dps will be when I have to cancel chaos bolts left, right, and center. Especially a fight like Durumu, where I currently have 100% uptime during disintegration beam --- with this change, I'd have to avoid casting chaos bolts.

If they are going to screw with Warlock specs every patch, at least give us tri-spec right now!

[Infernix]

Be honest with you, if this goes through as is, I'll just shelve this guy again for another year and pick up my ele shammy.

[xskarma]

I fail to see how having baseline howl compensates for the massive effect on pve. Really, were the pvpers even -asking- for baseline howl?

Some of them were, yes. Though mostly Mortal Coil base line. Shadowflame back factors into this as well.

[Deleted]

I think the main reason why they nerfed it is because warlocks are getting howl baseline, which allows them to get another CC in PvP, and having to deal with moving warlocks who cast fear on the move + howl + stun/horror is really, a lot to deal with.

I reckon this nerf was more of a PvP nerf/change.

we all know how we think about pvp nerfs

[Dreammage]

I think part of the reason that Warlocks have been the flavor-of-the-expansion is two fold. 1) They are currently one of the highest DPS classes and 2) they can keep up most of their DPS while moving.

It's not like my Priest can cast Mind Flay while running (although I think they should be able to).

Even Ghostcrawler said that Warlocks look too good right now from a raiding standpoint. High DPS, High Movement, High Survivability, I mean what's not to love? The class really doesn't have a weakness right now. That's why nearly everyone and their mom has a Lock right now.

So it was either nerf their movement or buff all the other caster classes. They choose the easier way out.

Dreammage

[Banawani]

If they're going to nerf KJC, they need to make MG not be as needed. Make dots deal higher base damage with MG adding additional damage. They're trying to put warlocks back to pre-MG maneuverability without taking away MG.

I think part of the reason that Warlocks have been the flavor-of-the-expansion is two fold. 1) They are currently one of the highest DPS classes and 2) they can keep up most of their DPS while moving.

It's not like my Priest can cast Mind Flay while running (although I think they should be able to).

Even Ghostcrawler said that Warlocks look too good right now from a raiding standpoint. High DPS, High Movement, High Survivability, I mean what's not to love? The class really doesn't have a weakness right now. That's why nearly everyone and their mom has a Lock right now.

So it was either nerf their movement or buff all the other caster classes. They choose the easier way out.

Dreammage

Mind Flay doesn't increase damage of dots currently on the target.

It's not as simply as nerf movement/AoE when Affliction and Destruction respectively depend on that to be playable. Unless they seriously change RoF and base dot damage and reduce MG dot damage, then it'd be like having Spriest's dots do 50% less damage while you're moving.

[Deleted]

I think part of the reason that Warlocks have been the flavor-of-the-expansion is two fold. 1) They are currently one of the highest DPS classes and 2) they can keep up most of their DPS while moving.

It's not like my Priest can cast Mind Flay while running (although I think they should be able to).

Even Ghostcrawler said that Warlocks look too good right now from a raiding standpoint. High DPS, High Movement, High Survivability, I mean what's not to love? The class really doesn't have a weakness right now. That's why nearly everyone and their mom has a Lock right now.

So it was either nerf their movement or buff all the other caster classes. They choose the easier way out.

Dreammage

hmm to much of our player base is playing locks, lets nerf them.
week after patch, sudden decrease of warlock. Yes mission complete.
Playerbase dropped, oh crap. working as intended

[Manthis]

I think part of the reason that Warlocks have been the flavor-of-the-expansion is two fold. 1) They are currently one of the highest DPS classes and 2) they can keep up most of their DPS while moving.

It's not like my Priest can cast Mind Flay while running (although I think they should be able to).

Even Ghostcrawler said that Warlocks look too good right now from a raiding standpoint. High DPS, High Movement, High Survivability, I mean what's not to love? The class really doesn't have a weakness right now. That's why nearly everyone and their mom has a Lock right now.

So it was either nerf their movement or buff all the other caster classes. They choose the easier way out.

Dreammage

Except that GC didn't mention mobility at all. He mentioned damage, survivability and utility.
On my phone atm, but it's on page 4 in mmo-champ frontpage. The part with the icy-veins interview.

[shinewaylee]

I wonder how will happen when aff is doing pvp without kj.

[Deleted]

I wonder how will happen when aff is doing pvp without kj.

Keep wondering, cause you'll never know. The aff locks will be stuck on 0 rating.

Then again, they might win vs dcd opponents. So you could eventually meet them.

/rant

[blackblade]

Except that GC didn't mention mobility at all. He mentioned damage, survivability and utility.
On my phone atm, but it's on page 4 in mmo-champ frontpage. The part with the icy-veins interview.

I would pen T90 as "Utility"

To be fair, we haven't seen the encounters yet. It's possible that this tier won't be full of 90+% movement fights. (LOLJK)

[Dreammage]

Except that GC didn't mention mobility at all. He mentioned damage, survivability and utility.
On my phone atm, but it's on page 4 in mmo-champ frontpage. The part with the icy-veins interview.

Greg didn't mention mobility specifically because damage and mobility go hand in hand. Locks lose less DPS than other classes by being able to do it on the run. It's just another part of the Warlock swiss army knife.

Dreammage

[Banawani]

I would pen T90 as "Utility"

To be fair, we haven't seen the encounters yet. It's possible that this tier won't be full of 90+% movement fights. (LOLJK)

Utility would be like Demonic Gateway or Demonic Circle which is what the T6 talents should be.. but that'd make too much sense for Blizzard.