Page 46 of 99 FirstFirst ...
36
44
45
46
47
48
56
96
... LastLast
  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Well, I'm certainly not a Muslim myself. I just know some Muslims, that are so veritably disgusted by pork, that they would rather be raped than be made to eat pork. Their exact words, not mine.
    Yes, of course your anecdotes of what "my Muslims acquaintances say" is a better source on accidentally eating pork than the Qu'ran itself.

    Stop with this feeble defense of an indefensible comparison.

  2. #902
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Well, I'm certainly not a Muslim myself. I just know some Muslims, that are so veritably disgusted by pork, that they would rather be raped than be made to eat pork. Their exact words, not mine.
    And it's almost certain they've never actually been raped if they can say something like that.

    Which I honestly find hard to believe.
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

    Signature by Shyama

  3. #903
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
    To all practical intents and purposes those are your own words.

    And again, if they ate pork by mistake they won't be disgusted by virtue of them chewing on pork. The disgust only comes from (probably a misguided) interpretation of scriptures once they are informed it's pork. Someone held down and gang raped is traumatized by virtue of heir bodily sovereignty being deprived, and won't possibly mistake it for consensual sex. It's a terrible analogy.
    I guess that what he's trying to argue is that if the culture is such as where women are raised not to believe they have any right to bodily sovereignty regarding sex, the emotional impact of rape is lessened.

    But not because culture makes it all better... but because it's a culture forcibly supresses the self-preservation drive on women! Which is pretty sick in itself.

  4. #904
    I'd rather not continue to discuss the validity of the details of my analogy in light of the grander scheme here, especially not when the point is so sorely missed. The point was to highlight how the same act can induce different levels of trauma depending on the standards of the culture one is in, which shouldn't so much require analogies to demonstrate as common sense and a basic understanding of the workings of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    I guess that what he's trying to argue is that if the culture is such as where women are raised not to believe they have any right to bodily sovereignty regarding sex, the emotional impact of rape is lessened.

    But not because culture makes it all better... but because it's a culture forcibly supresses the self-preservation drive on women! Which is pretty sick in itself.
    There really ought to be a prize for the millionth or so person to misinterpret what I said.

  5. #905
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    I'd rather not continue to discuss the validity of the details of my analogy in light of the grander scheme here, especially not when the point is so sorely missed. The point was to highlight how the same act can induce different levels of trauma depending on the standards of the culture one is in, which shouldn't so much require analogies to demonstrate as common sense and a basic understanding of the workings of society.
    If you think you're digging yourself out of the hole you dug, I'm sorry to inform you that you're just digging the hole ever deeper with every single post you make.
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

    Signature by Shyama

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    If you think you're digging yourself out of the hole you dug, I'm sorry to inform you that you're just digging the hole ever deeper with every single post you make.
    I wish you'd elaborate a bit more rather than make assertions like that that leave me scratching my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
    As it is, the only basis for your claim that culture is the reason rape is traumatic, is still "because Velaniz says so".
    Read my posts starting from page 38.

  7. #907
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
    I did. None of it contains a single valid reason. As I have stated earlier, you started from a false premise.
    What is my false premise? That the rights sexual-sovereignty and self-autonomy are social constructs? Or that Social Cognitions have the power to invoke a fear or trauma that isn't already deep-rooted in our psyche?

  8. #908
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    What is my false premise? That the rights sexual-sovereignty and self-autonomy are social constructs? Or that Social Cognitions have the power to invoke a fear or trauma that isn't already deep-rooted in our psyche?
    I dunno. She could be referring to how you decided that you lived 10,000+ years ago and know how society worked back then even though they left no written record and this shit isn't exactly recorded in the fossil record.
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

    Signature by Shyama

  9. #909
    Deleted
    Boo Hoo, let me dial WHINE-1-1 and call you a wambulance.

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I dunno. She could be referring to how you decided that you lived 10,000+ years ago and know how society worked back then even though they left no written record and this shit isn't exactly recorded in the fossil record.
    That was a conjecture that was derived from the facts we have today.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Celinee View Post
    Boo Hoo, let me dial WHINE-1-1 and call you a wambulance.
    If that's directed at OP, then you must think the law handled the situation well? How is it you feel it was just, when it fails on the fronts of restorative justice to the victim, rehabilitative action for the perpetrators, and deterrence for would-be rapists?

  11. #911
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    That was a conjecture that was derived from the facts we have today.
    Please tell me that you're not actually trying to say that there are women in the world today who have been raped and are not actually suffering trauma because their culture doesn't recognize rape.
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

    Signature by Shyama

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    Please tell me that you're not actually trying to say that there are women in the world today who have been raped and are not actually suffering trauma because their culture doesn't recognize rape.
    There isn't a culture in the world today that is like that.

  13. #913
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    What is my false premise? That the rights sexual-sovereignty and self-autonomy are social constructs? Or that Social Cognitions have the power to invoke a fear or trauma that isn't already deep-rooted in our psyche?
    Believe it or not, rape as such exists beyond human culture. Plenty animal species have 2 pathways for sex: female accepts male for mating, they might or might not perform a mating ceremony, and then comes sex... or male rapes female while female resists physically.
    The females of every mammal and bird species are hardwired to mate with males of their chosing. Doing so is in their best interest because since the female is the one that gets pregnant/incubates/raises the offspring, they don't want to waste that energy with the offspring of males of lower quality.
    So females resist rape instinctively, and rape can only be consumed if the female is overpowered. In any case, the females react with the self-preservation drive kicking in.

    The only social construct is what some cultures have, that women don't even have the right to chose sexual mate, that they don't have the right to resist it.
    Last edited by mmoca165b6ca3d; 2013-06-18 at 09:17 AM.

  14. #914
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    There isn't a culture in the world today that is like that.
    Then how are you concluding anything?
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

    Signature by Shyama

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    Then how are you concluding anything?
    Because there is no reason to believe that an immensely emotional and traumatic response to rape is an innate feature of the human psyche. None that anyone on your side of the argument has made anyway. There is, however, plenty of reason to believe the contrary. If someone were to tear your clothes off in public, you would feel defiled in quite a few ways. This is because the rights that our society bestows upon individuals, rights that are social constructs, are violated. To someone in a society where those rights don't exist, or aren't valued, you would only be making a rude intrusion into their personal space.

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Because there is no reason to believe that an immensely emotional and traumatic response to rape is an innate feature of the human psyche. None that anyone on your side of the argument has made anyway. There is, however, plenty of reason to believe the contrary. If someone were to tear your clothes off in public, you would feel defiled in quite a few ways. This is because the rights that our society bestows upon individuals, rights that are social constructs, are violated. To someone in a society where those rights don't exist, or aren't valued, you would only be making a rude intrusion into their personal space.
    [citation needed]

    And my, aren't you so so edgy.

  17. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    [citation needed]

    And my, aren't you so so edgy.
    Edgy? I honestly think I'm one of the few people in this who hasn't yet failed to keep a level head.

  18. #918
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Because there is no reason to believe that an immensely emotional and traumatic response to rape is an innate feature of the human psyche. None that anyone on your side of the argument has made anyway. There is, however, plenty of reason to believe the contrary. If someone were to tear your clothes off in public, you would feel defiled in quite a few ways. This is because the rights that our society bestows upon individuals, rights that are social constructs, are violated. To someone in a society where those rights don't exist, or aren't valued, you would only be making a rude intrusion into their personal space.
    Rape exists in animals. The antagonistic response to rape (physically resisting unwanted sex) exists in animals. They are unaffected by the human concept of rape.

  19. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Edgy? I honestly think I'm one of the few people in this who hasn't yet failed to keep a level head.
    Yeah, there's always one of you types in threads about rape or pedophilia.

    Going on about how rape/pedophilia are not inherently wrong, and society has just made a mountain out of a molehill and that the trauma is entirely created by people who just don't understand, man.

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Yeah, there's always one of you types in threads about rape or pedophilia.

    Going on about how rape/pedophilia are not inherently wrong, and society has just made a mountain out of a molehill and that the trauma is entirely created by people who just don't understand, man.
    I especially like how this was in response to you accusing me of being edgy, and when I asked you how I was being so, you respond in an unrelated edgy tirade of your own.

    To have come to the conclusion that you have, you have either not completely read everything I've written, or have comprehension skills that are markedly abysmal. And neither case warrants me spending more time responding to you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •