What should be Garrosh's fate in SoO?

[Zulkhan]

Please, tell me how that is a bad leader. Does he do the right things all the time? No. But that's what makes characters interesting.

Yeah, he's a bad leader, because pretending to lead a faction like the Horde, so diverse and multi-racial with iron fist and absolute strenght, and NOTHING else, it's foolish. And the only reason for which he values so much strenght it's because is in line with his exaggerated pride, and if you read Baine's short story, he commint huge mistakes and some very stupid things because of his blind pride. No, he's not reliable as leader, not at all.

Yeah his flaws and mistakes make him interesting, but are also the reasons for which is the villain now. Not because people cannot commit mistakes, but because he doesn't take responsiblity of no one of his mistakes, for him everything is necessary, justifable and good, and the line in which he would finally realise that maybe not everything of what he did was the best of the best, seems still unknown.

I'd like to see Garrosh either redeemed/purged and made to mend his mistakes and continue to serve the Horde, or to die a heroic death by doing something honourable at the last second, pretty much like Grom. I'd rather see Y'shaarj corruption going out of control and taking over whole of Orgrimmar including the Alliance and the Rebels just for Garrosh to realize his mistake and correct it by turning on Y'shaarj, going out with a bang than for Garrosh to die like a lowly criminal. There's nothing epic about that.

Then Garrosh would just become the next Illidan, people a few years from now would be wondering why we even killed him as he wasn't that bad.

So you would want such a thing for let's begin years of stupid complain about Garrosh being killed and not being that bad? No man, if Garrosh have to die in some "good" manner, that whole thing must be shown as NOT making him look like a good guy on the last moment, but just doing something truly great at least in the last minutes of his life, a life in which he made a lot of mistakes, like his father: Grom didn't act as a "good guy" when he died, he simply unload his bloodlust against Mannoroth. Still, the act itself was great, and that's it; the same should happen with Garrosh, but in a different way, since the contest is quite different.

If Blizzard wanted me to hate Garrosh they should've been more clear on his motives. They should've let Garrosh kill children and betray his own faction and outright state his desire to become some sort of God

But that would have been out of character. You want the standard "evil" guy because you cannot see anything else apart the "i want more power because i love to be a god, i want to destroy the world and kill anyone because i like killing" being bad and simply too dangerous for let it go. Garrosh is not evil, he's reckless and dangerous, like his father, he would easily cause another Cataclysm and blow up half of the planet if the thing would support his goals. But hey, he don't say "i'm a baddie, me random smash", so who cares, leave him alone.

Now I don't exactly see the bombing of Theramore or the destruction of the vale as a reason to kill him, it's quite normal in war.

The bombing of Theramore showed that he was eager to become a thief (by stealing the Focusing Iris) and fight (not much fight, just destroy) his enemy as a coward if the thing was necessary for further his great plans of Kalimdor's domination. But the destruction of the Vale being "quite normal" in war is the top, the Vale was not in the center of the conflit between Alliance and Horde, he stirred that gigantic mess there only because he dug where he shouldn't have dig, all for obtain his precious new (and dangerous) toy, giving a fuck about the consequences, like he never do. If you can't see this as wrong, it's nothing but your personal taste, but you cannot blame Blizzard for that.

[Trassk]

Yeah, he's a bad leader, because pretending to lead a faction like the Horde, so diverse and multi-racial with iron fist and absolute strenght, and NOTHING else, it's foolish. And the only reason for which he values so much strenght it's because is in line with his exaggerated pride, and if you read Baine's short story, he commint huge mistakes and some very stupid things because of his blind pride. No, he's not reliable as leader, not at all.

Yeah his flaws and mistakes make him interesting, but are also the reasons for which is the villain now. Not because people cannot commit mistakes, but because he doesn't take responsiblity of no one of his mistakes, for him everything is necessary, justifable and good, and the line in which he would finally realise that maybe not everything of what he did was the best of the best, seems still unknown.

This so much ^

When a character makes mistakes, and learns from those mistakes, realizing the wrong they've done, then they are redeemable. When you commit a mistake or do something reprehendable, and not only do not learn from it, you actually pride yourself on that act committed, you are not redeemable.

[Deleted]

I cant set my opinion but Spoiler Ahead.





Since garrosh new model contains an unique animation called carried 2H, I suspect that the corruption will end when he is "killed" and the new warchief steps forward and carries his body out.

[Tojara]

Some ancestral spirit of his father enters at the last moment and fights back all of the alliance and horde forces trying to kill his son.

Then he kills his son by his own hands.

I don't feel like he deserves redemption or pity in his death, but that doesn't mean I don't want it to be cool. I'd love if Blizzard found someway to integrate his father in, but in a very elegant way. Don't want him brought back as it would make his death seem less meaningful though.

If that animation is truly telling of how he will die, it leads me to believe it would be someone who actually did care about him at some point in his life. Which means it's likely either Thrall or a spirit of his father.

Edit: And yeah he IS a bad leader. Initially they were setting him up to be a good leader by learning from his mistakes in Northerend into Cataclysm, but that never happened. I still think he's an interesting character though, and they clearly did something marginally right if they have made both factions detest him so much.

People on the Horde would be much more on board with him if he had some semblance of respect for the other factions within the Horde. I really liked his conquest in Kalimdor, pushing Alliance forces back and even bombing the living shit out of Theramore. Some Horde players might not like that but I think it's perfectly okay. What's not okay is push other factions out and treat them as second class citizens while doing all of this.

The Silverpine conversation with Sylvanas back in Cataclysm showed a Garrosh that many people could probably get behind as he technically took a moral high ground (at least compared to Sylvanas). All gets thrown out the window as he plunges deeper and deeper into his bid for power and conquest though

[Deleted]

I cant set my opinion but Spoiler Ahead.




Since garrosh new model contains an unique animation called carried 2H, I suspect that the corruption will end when he is "killed" and the new warchief steps forward and carries his body out.

or maybe he's just unconscious to actually survive ther raid, dragged by someone who helps him?

[thedingleberry]

Death by snoo snoo

[Colonel Sandor]

Death by snoo snoo

The only way to end his reign.

[Trassk]

Since garrosh new model contains an unique animation called carried 2H, I suspect that the corruption will end when he is "killed" and the new warchief steps forward and carries his body out.

Those are not unique, those are animations for orcs that have been in the game since wrath days, when Saurfang carried his son in his arms. All orcs have this animation.

[Wyshbonez]

I think wrathion comes in shape shifts into his adult dragon form, yells some crap about how we cant kill garrosh, he's our only hope for what is to come in the fight against the legion, that he forsaw in that globe. the raid, garrosh, and the hero's are all like wtf you talking about wrathion hes a murderer blah blah blah blah, then either A) Vol'jin shoots the arrow that he promised and garrosh is killed, or B) wrathion cant take the bickering tail swipes everyone grabs garrosh and flys away, yelling, i did this for your own good, you dont see it now but i promise one day soon you will come to me and thank me for saving garrosh.

[Zulkhan]

If Garrosh has to "answer" for his crimes like wrecking the Vale and bombing Theramore, Jaina should answer for trying to level Orgrimmar. Fair is fair.

That and Jaina is obnoxious and emo now; she needs to die.

While i don't have a liking for Jaina's character, put her in par with Garrosh is sincerely absurd; Jaina was indeed eager to commit an utter genocide, killing men, women and children, an act that would have been able to completely obscure Theramore's bombing in comparison, BUT:

1- Her mind was twisted and she wasn't in her better senses, since the mana bomb "empowered" her emotions and clouded her judgement;
2- Even without this "excuse", indeed the girl survived an utter tragedy, which have shaken and traumatized her, regardless of the arcane effects in her mind;
3- Most important, despite the above points, in the end she didn't make it, she had the strength to supress his hate and bitterness and has been able to actually listen the people around her, plus, absolutely admitted that she is completely ashamed of what she tried to do, when she returned to her "right" mind.

On the other hand, Garrosh never had his judgement "clouded" (if not by his self-pride), nor he had the "emotionally convulsed" excuse, he did everything he did for ensure his plans and goals to be achievied, in a pretty cool mind too. And last but not least, despite these things, he don't listen, he don't care about what the others say to him, he dismiss everyone by saying, in substance:

"Yeah man, i understand your "concern", but you know, i'm the Warchief, and i don't sincerely give a fuck about it. Still, i will graciously accept your sincere excuses when you'll undestand how wrong you were"

so lovable try to reasoning with such a person. Anyway, this is if we talk about a just comparison. For the rest, if Jaina don't make it after the raid, i wouldn't be that concerned, to be honest i wouldn't give a fuck about it, but for a lot of reasons, i'm absolutely sure that she'll remain much alive.

P.S. Wtf with this "emo" abuse, people should stop to using words they don't even have a clear knowledge about.

[mysticx]

Death by snoo snoo

Or the alliance comes up with their own super secret weapon: a group of Gastropods (The insta-kill snails from before Ji-kun in ToT), and unleash them on Garrosh, he tries to flee but gets cornered, death by Snail-snoo >

[Belisaurio]

He will die like a warrior, with an axe in one hand, and a corpse in the other hand (I'm looking at you Thrall).

[Okacz]

He will die like a warrior, with an axe in one hand, and a corpse in the other hand (I'm looking at you Thrall).

Why Thrall? I mean, if Garrosh has to die, he should at least die accomplishing what he started - killing Vol'Jin. Thrall has no business there.

[checking facts]

head on a pike /thread

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:05 PM ----------

Those are not unique, those are animations for orcs that have been in the game since wrath days, when Saurfang carried his son in his arms. All orcs have this animation.

http://menagerie.jaedia.net/wp-conte..._Sons_Body.jpg

slightly off-topic, but I really don't understand why muradin and saurfang wear vrykul armor based on king ymiron's boar belt. I'd expect them to wear dwarf/orc armor.

[Belisaurio]

Nope, the problem is exactly reversed. Most LFR people are happy to do LFR and are not whining on the forums about it.
On the other hand, a lot of (wannabe) hardcore are butthurt about the fact that someone dares doing the same content on a lesser difficulty level.

Because Thrall has someone to continue his legacy. Vol'jin...well..you are right, Thrall in one hand, and Vol'jin in the other hand!!! but where can Garrosh put his axe then?

[Z3ROR]

I hope Garrosh will survive somehow the fight and keeps his affected body. It seems the Twilight Hammer still exist somewhere. They appear on the end of the fight and take the passed out body of Garrosh away. Then they tell in a quick note they want to adopt Garrosh at their leading ranks since they lost Cho'Gall. And dissappear.

[checking facts]

I hope Garrosh will survive somehow the fight and keeps his affected body. It seems the Twilight Hammer still exist somewhere. They appear on the end of the fight and take the passed out body of Garrosh away. Then they tell in a quick note they want to adopt Garrosh at their leading ranks since they lost Cho'Gall. And dissappear.

or it could turn out that cho'gall was still alive, garrosh and cho'gall meet, fall in love with each other and end up becoming azeroth's first case of gay marriage, with the old gods being given temporary right to freedom in order to give them their blessings and wish them happiness

[Togarox]

I hope Garrosh will survive somehow the fight and keeps his affected body. It seems the Twilight Hammer still exist somewhere. They appear on the end of the fight and take the passed out body of Garrosh away. Then they tell in a quick note they want to adopt Garrosh at their leading ranks since they lost Cho'Gall. And dissappear.

Like the horde is just going to let the Twilight Hammer walk away with Garrosh's unconscious body. If Garrosh survives, the first place he is going to is a heavy guarded jail cell.

The only option that makes sense to me is the first one. Garrosh is all for the 'victory or death' so I can't see him letting himself get captured alive. The only way he could die heroically would be if he killed himself and I can't see that happening either.

[spelle]

hope he kills uss all and starts a new horde full of sha orcs and takes over the world

[Zulkhan]

This so much ^

When a character makes mistakes, and learns from those mistakes, realizing the wrong they've done, then they are redeemable. When you commit a mistake or do something reprehendable, and not only do not learn from it, you actually pride yourself on that act committed, you are not redeemable.

In comparison Grom indeed had some realizing about his mistakes, still Grom's mistakes were a bit different. I don't know if Grom would look at Garrosh with shame OR proud about the fact that his son has been able to turn the Horde in a powerful war-machine of conquest and domination without the "slave-factor", in fact without the orcs bargaining or "lowering" their heads with no great big bad for the power they now possess.