Alright bring back our DPS for PvE

[Darkfriend]

I dont know what you're talking about. I'm doing as much dps as ever, I'm competing with 2 warlocks, a mage and a hunter all of which are at least 5-10 ilvls higher than me and I'm still having no problems coming 2nd/3rd.

This is tonight's council fight.

The thing is every single one of your DPS suck. Which make that a terrible metric to use. You need to compare skilled players, not bad ones. Numbers bads pull is irrelevant to class balance.

[goltnum9]

Simulation wise, yes we are almost last dps I think the new 5.4 tier will try to fix that, but untill you can equip it you have to learn how to win in some burst phases, something that we are good.

My guild ilvl is close to 530 and we have since yesterday our sh.priest is with legendary cloak (qq wanted 2 runes,got only 1) While i was competing for 1,2 place suddenly yesterday things become harder, even though still viable.

Jin'rohk heroic i play it safe close to the wall for 1st storm and loose much dps. Also something went wrong on heroism too. Fail on cooldowns or something. With these 2 fails i still got some nice dps, and prob would be in rankings if i improve.

Now Horridon HC, keep in mind i must do the orbs and ...the lead. So i can't do everything perfect, cause not so concentrate on dps. I tried on heroism though and got nice burst results.

So my point is that untill your raid gets some serious gear and moves further in Heroic progression, you should be 1st 2nd in meters. Then the gap begins ...nothing more to do. Just find ways to exploit your burst dmg and don't die often so you wont be replaced :P

[Darkfriend]

Simulation wise, yes we are almost last dps I think the new 5.4 tier will try to fix that, but untill you can equip it you have to learn how to win in some burst phases, something that we are good.

My guild ilvl is close to 530 and we have since yesterday our sh.priest is with legendary cloak (qq wanted 2 runes,got only 1) While i was competing for 1,2 place suddenly yesterday things become harder, even though still viable.

Jin'rohk heroic i play it safe close to the wall for 1st storm and loose much dps. Also something went wrong on heroism too. Fail on cooldowns or something. With these 2 fails i still got some nice dps, and prob would be in rankings if i improve.

Now Horridon HC, keep in mind i must do the orbs and ...the lead. So i can't do everything perfect, cause not so concentrate on dps. I tried on heroism though and got nice burst results.

So my point is that untill your raid gets some serious gear and moves further in Heroic progression, you should be 1st 2nd in meters. Then the gap begins ...nothing more to do. Just find ways to exploit your burst dmg and don't die often so you wont be replaced :P

Sim DPS doesn't account for festerblight. /thread.

[goltnum9]

Sim DPS doesn't account for festerblight. /thread.

how much % increase is from normal UH? add it to it and there you go. Fixed it for you. *pats!

[Deleted]

how much % increase is from normal UH? add it to it and there you go. Fixed it for you. *pats!

/shrug 5-10% maybe? Pretty sure I sim about 180k on a patchwerk encounter with ams absorbing and can manage around 200K just tunneling durumu normal.

[Slant]

I dont know what you're talking about. I'm doing as much dps as ever, I'm competing with 2 warlocks, a mage and a hunter all of which are at least 5-10 ilvls higher than me and I'm still having no problems coming 2nd/3rd.

This is tonight's council fight.

And this is our Council fight... http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=5721&e=6205

Not saying you're wrong per se. But your raid composition could mean that your ranged players simply suck in comparison to you. See how that could skew your viewpoint?

Side note: Any PMs to me about why I suck specifically are appreciated. I'm finally diving into Festerblight but feel like I'm missing the point. Please PM, don't clutter up this thread.

[Jackkernaut]

I don't understand one thing, if your guild kills an HC boss, clearly you met the DPS requirement..
Why ppl nowdays are such DPS hoes....
I rarely encountering enrage issues nor mechanic this tier, so i don't understand the point of this thread.
DK doing good DPS, thats all you should know. If you doing fine, no need to look left and right.(up and down metters).
I'm using Recount only at wipes if RL claims there is issue with killing X fast enough and then i figure what i can do better.
I'm telling you, onces you stop focus damage metters and start focus the fight and what you doing it will be more fun.

[Slant]

You assume that I'm watching Skada when in fight. You're wrong. Doesn't mean I can't look at Skada after the fight and wonder why I'm so low. And since I care about my performance, I want to get back to my booked place in the top 5. Alas, this tier has beaten me, I think.

[Deleted]

I'm telling you, onces you stop focus damage metters and start focus the fight and what you doing it will be more fun.

I totally agree with you.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 10:50 AM ----------

You assume that I'm watching Skada when in fight. You're wrong. Doesn't mean I can't look at Skada after the fight and wonder why I'm so low. And since I care about my performance, I want to get back to my booked place in the top 5. Alas, this tier has beaten me, I think.

The thing is, if your performance is good and you ended 10th in damage meter, what the hell is wrong with that? I mean, you did your job, you killed the boss and everyone else in your raid is satisfied... You may have even won an upgrade for you, just reset your Skada and go on...

Instead, if your performance was bad you don't have to blame the class itself but you should check where YOU could improve.

[Nyanmaru]

Topping DpS meters is one of the few positive ways to compete with other players in WoW. Most other ways can only be done "against" one another (hint: PvP). And I do understand why it's frustrating to see that even if all stars align you are still beaten by the mechanics and unable to sincerely compete. If you are "homo casual casual" then it's no big deal to just take part in the group. But if there's a hint of "homo casual competitus" or even worse "homo competitus" in you it is rather bothersome to not be competing for the top DpS spots.

[Slant]

I totally agree with you.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 10:50 AM ----------



The thing is, if your performance is good and you ended 10th in damage meter, what the hell is wrong with that? I mean, you did your job, you killed the boss and everyone else in your raid is satisfied... You may have even won an upgrade for you, just reset your Skada and go on...

Instead, if your performance was bad you don't have to blame the class itself but you should check where YOU could improve.

I'm doing that, don't worry about it. I am quite new to Festerblight. But when it comes to Frost, I end up in the 90th percentile of WoL rankings and still behind mages (that frankly suck) that are only in their 60-70th percentile. If I assume them to be mages that actually knew how to do their job, they'd be light years ahead of me. That's the uphill battle I don't like. And others seem to agree with me, otherwise we wouldn't have this thread.

Look, I get it... you're casual and want to chill while going through the dungeon on autopilot with your brain afk. That's fine, but there are people who like to compete. With other guilds, with other servers, with people in your own class, melees or even just general dps. Don't go around telling people to stop being competetive if that's what they're enjoying. And if that competition is skewed as badly as it seems now, those people have the same right to talk about it as you have the right to ignore meters and think everything is peachy.

The main reason I'm here on the forum about this topic is to find out if my perception is just that, my personal perception, or if others share it as well. So apparently I am one of the few that feel the lack of actual change for dks in this expansion (there's been fuck all changes if any, I've had a year break and picked up the DK as if nothing happened...) is a problem. Everyone seems to get mixed up and around and receives the odd buff here and there. But our buffs don't exist or haven't kicked in as well as people hoped.

Perhaps I shall take your advice and post less on here and see if I somehow lost the ability to outperform others within the last 2 months. I'd have no idea where to look, but I'll try. It's depressing to go from being 3rd to being 3rd to last without actually changing anything in your gameplan.

[devilminion]

I totally agree with you.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 10:50 AM ----------



The thing is, if your performance is good and you ended 10th in damage meter, what the hell is wrong with that? I mean, you did your job, you killed the boss and everyone else in your raid is satisfied... You may have even won an upgrade for you, just reset your Skada and go on...

Instead, if your performance was bad you don't have to blame the class itself but you should check where YOU could improve.

This would be fine and dandy if thats how most WoW progression was based on. I am the tank in my 10 mans. while doing h progression on iron qon.. my RL decided to replace me because 1) i was doing lowest dps (dont have the best gear since i am the tank normally) 2) i bring nothing useful to the fight compared to our warrior and rogue dps 3) i am a meele dps

if i was toppping meters that wouldnt have happened. if the class is unable to do that.. it kinda sucks.. i mean you could argue that i am normally a tank and thus the raid should be fine "carrying" my lower dps than other main dps for h Qon but thats not how things roll in most guilds.

[Deleted]

Here is the WoL parse of our last Council of Elders 25m hc kill. Guess what world rank I got as a frost DK, solely by looking at this (every bossmob was in cleave range all the time).

[Slant]

Here is the WoL parse of our last Council of Elders 25m hc kill. Guess what world rank I got as a frost DK, solely by looking at this (every bossmob was in cleave range all the time).

I guess somewhere around #50? I figure because I saw the ranking limit yesterday when I looked at my measly 65%.

[Deleted]

I guess somewhere around #50? I figure because I saw the ranking limit yesterday when I looked at my measly 65%.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fa2rwlenn3s6tk3h/

[Deleted]

I'm doing that, don't worry about it. I am quite new to Festerblight. But when it comes to Frost, I end up in the 90th percentile of WoL rankings and still behind mages (that frankly suck) that are only in their 60-70th percentile. If I assume them to be mages that actually knew how to do their job, they'd be light years ahead of me. That's the uphill battle I don't like. And others seem to agree with me, otherwise we wouldn't have this thread.

Look, I get it... you're casual and want to chill while going through the dungeon on autopilot with your brain afk. That's fine, but there are people who like to compete. With other guilds, with other servers, with people in your own class, melees or even just general dps. Don't go around telling people to stop being competetive if that's what they're enjoying. And if that competition is skewed as badly as it seems now, those people have the same right to talk about it as you have the right to ignore meters and think everything is peachy.

The main reason I'm here on the forum about this topic is to find out if my perception is just that, my personal perception, or if others share it as well. So apparently I am one of the few that feel the lack of actual change for dks in this expansion (there's been fuck all changes if any, I've had a year break and picked up the DK as if nothing happened...) is a problem. Everyone seems to get mixed up and around and receives the odd buff here and there. But our buffs don't exist or haven't kicked in as well as people hoped.

Perhaps I shall take your advice and post less on here and see if I somehow lost the ability to outperform others within the last 2 months. I'd have no idea where to look, but I'll try. It's depressing to go from being 3rd to being 3rd to last without actually changing anything in your gameplan.

I'm not causal nor hardcore, I just thake this game as a game.
I understand all of your thoughts, I agree with some of them but I have my own opinion (and someone agree with me aswell).
I'm not saying you shouldn't post on this forum, I just think that people usually tend to blame the class they play way too fast, instead they should check if they are making mistakes (everyone makes mistakes) and see where they could/should improve.
Am I saying DKs are topping meters? No. Am I saying we could have some love from blizzard? Hell yes, UH 4p DPS bonus sucks very badly at the moment and we scale very bad with gear. All I am saying it's that we aren't a dead class nor the worst dps in the club.

You don't have to loose your will to outperform others but you shouldn't compare apples with oranges either. I'm an "omo competitus", as Nyanmaru called them, but only when it comes down to other DKs in raid or other melees in general: if I'm performing good compared to them I'm fine, if not I gonna be sad. But if you compare DKs with mages you make a big mistake, in my opinion.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 11:49 AM ----------

This is the sum of this thread: an average performance overall, a great performance if compared to other melees (3rd) a wonderful performance within the frost DKs. I think there is nothing to qq, I can understand it sucks being 1st worlwide within frost DKs and being an average dps in raid but sincerly someone must be an average dps.

[Slant]

I'm not causal nor hardcore, I just thake this game as a game.
I understand all of your thoughts, I agree with some of them but I have my own opinion (and someone agree with me aswell).
I'm not saying you shouldn't post on this forum, I just think that people usually tend to blame the class they play way too fast, instead they should check if they are making mistakes (everyone makes mistakes) and see where they could/should improve.
Am I saying DKs are topping meters? No. Am I saying we could have some love from blizzard? Hell yes, UH 4p DPS bonus sucks very badly at the moment and we scale very bad with gear. All I am saying it's that we aren't a dead class nor the worst dps in the club.

You don't have to loose your will to outperform others but you shouldn't compare apples with oranges either. I'm an "omo competitus", as Nyanmaru called them, but only when it comes down to other DKs in raid or other melees in general: if I'm performing good compared to them I'm fine, if not I gonna be sad. But if you compare DKs with mages you make a big mistake, in my opinion.

I'm usually not one to instantly blame the class or Blizzard. Usually I just adapt to whatever change is thrown our way. So far that has served me pretty well. But there are no changes that I could adapt to. As Frost, I can't change my gameplay because it is as flawless as I'll ever get (not perfect, mind you, just talking about myself...). To a point where in our raid my DK mate will perform exactly as I will, within a couple of styles to be precise. We are close to what our raid lets us to be. We both are ranking sometimes at WoL without actually manipulating the charts. Yet, our mages pass us by without doing more than 60-70% of what they ought to do. That's not comparing apples and oranges, that is a glaring disparity in balance.

Granted, and this is a big point, the whole tier is designed for multidotters. And nobody here is slitting any wrists over this, but it doesn't feel satisfying to tell yourself "Well, hey, at least I'm on par with the other DK in my raid", does it?

Edit: Check it out, just an example... from the Council fight I mentioned earlier:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...0myw/rankinfo/

Look at Tallas, he's at the WoL Rank Limit of 98%, that's where we usually are. Then look at Shaddowmen, he's at freaking 75%. Now for the fun effect, go to "Damage Done" and see the actual ranking in the raid:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=5721&e=6205

Get what I mean? How's that motivating me to give a damn about my performance? Whatever I do, it won't make a huge difference for this fight. I am not saying I don't matter. But it's not far off.

[Deleted]

This would be fine and dandy if thats how most WoW progression was based on. I am the tank in my 10 mans. while doing h progression on iron qon.. my RL decided to replace me because 1) i was doing lowest dps (dont have the best gear since i am the tank normally) 2) i bring nothing useful to the fight compared to our warrior and rogue dps 3) i am a meele dps

if i was toppping meters that wouldnt have happened. if the class is unable to do that.. it kinda sucks.. i mean you could argue that i am normally a tank and thus the raid should be fine "carrying" my lower dps than other main dps for h Qon but thats not how things roll in most guilds.

This has nothing to do with the class, I think your gear and the fact you are main spec tank have played a way bigger part in your replace.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 12:14 PM ----------

Get what I mean? How's that motivating me to give a damn about my performance? Whatever I do, it won't make a huge difference for this fight. I am not saying I don't matter. But it's not far off.

Yep, I get what you mean but let's take a look at the first link you posted.

In your raid the situation, if everyone would rank last in WoL, would be:

1st Fire Mage 281,770
2nd "
3rd "
4th Affli Lock 255,967
5th "
6th "
7th Balance Druid 253,004
8th Shadow Priest 234,900
9th "
10th Unholy Death Knight 222,492

There will always be someone performing better than someone else, the fact is if you had 1 Mage and 1 Warlock the DK would end 6th), instead if you had 6 Mages and 6 Warlokcs the DK would end last. It's just relative, in fact the Unholy DK is the 5th dps spec in your raid for this fight.

[Jackkernaut]

You doing absolutley fine, if your mage doing such DPS- ITS A GAIN FOR THE RAID, it doesn't mean you are bad. This is how you should look up into it.
DKs are awsome at Twin, i'm outdpsing a rogue that outdpsing me(probably my fault) by 100K on fights like Qon for example.
Yes Blizzard should do something about DK, start with very limmited mobility in PvE(DA is kinda bad compares if you ask me).

[Deleted]

The thing is every single one of your DPS suck. Which make that a terrible metric to use. You need to compare skilled players, not bad ones. Numbers bads pull is irrelevant to class balance.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gabd2xw7c7zhd0v5/ Logs from yesterdays raid.
-Been on par with moonkin on Horridon.
-Topped dmg on boss on Dark animus.
-Rest of fights were either shit procs or issues with FPS since it's 25m.
Still far from boomkins/warlocks tho.
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