5.4 KJC changes.

[Jessicka]

the only way this fix can be deal with properly, is, not incin being castable while moving, its chaos bolt, think of it this way, if they wont allow chaos bolt be castable on the move, then the damage nerf against players needs to be reverted, mean why have a spell that doesnt hit hard and even more easily interupted from before

As GC pointed out, cast while move kinda defeats the object of the long cast in the first place.

[Leonofhyjal]

Yeah I see what you mean about choice with MF/AV. But tbh, for 99% of the time no one is going to choose those talents for Affliction. At least in their current state. It seems like the change MF every day, and I haven't seen or have just missed any talk about AV. AV is just terrible in all ways for PvE. The only fight in ToT that I would maybe take AV would be Megaera. Except that if the damage taken is in absorbs there's no damage reflect. So yeah.... It's still a useless talent.

I guess if they do change Fel Flame I'd want have to glyph it so it doesn't extend dots. Not the other way around. For me at least it would be unglyphed most of the time anyways. I like my minor glyphs to much lol.

Any real warlock will tell you that Glowy Soul Well is a must have lol.

[Gorthan]

[NOSTRADAMUS MODE ON]

i see filler castable while moving for all the casters in the next exp

[NOSTRADAMUS MODE OFF]

[Deleted]

As GC pointed out, cast while move kinda defeats the object of the long cast in the first place.

only if it hit hard against other players to begin with, at the moment, it doesnt, so the long cast time + hard hitting doesnt apply here, gotta at least think of pvp implications here, i can live with not being able to cast on the move with it, if it can actually hit hard

[Leonofhyjal]

^ @ Gorthan

Infracted for spam.

[Jessicka]

only if it hit hard against other players to begin with, at the moment, it doesnt, so the long cast time + hard hitting doesnt apply here, gotta at least think of pvp implications here, i can live with not being able to cast on the move with it, if it can actually hit hard

Maybe with the inability to move and cast they'll decide the penalty against players is no longer necessary?

[Deleted]

which is what i hope and hasnt been addressed yet, so we need to speak up about it really, dont think its inbalanced to ask for this, it maybe skillful getting chaos bolt off in this situation, but with it hitting like a wet noodle, makes you think what was the entire bloody point of it

[Deleted]

Yeah I see what you mean about choice with MF/AV. But tbh, for 99% of the time no one is going to choose those talents for Affliction. At least in their current state

That means the problem resides in MF/AV. They need to make them more attractive. MF is always gonna be situational, but as it stands, MF looks attractive for aoe situations, as it doubles the dmg of seed for 10 seconds. And as far as AV goes, they said that they're working on something.

[Teye]

To continue the conversation in the KJC thread that was closed...

Unavoidable damage is a thing that exists. Shame Archimonde's Vengeance isn't more popular.

This is a conversation that's been going on here since MoP Beta, AV isn't popular because even if you stand in bad the ENTIRE FIGHT, and use the active part of the CD with your last DS (It benefits from it), it still only equates to 3-5% of your damage done. Even on Wind Lord, a fight with a TON of reflect-able damage, it was terrible.

[Drikkink]

These new KJC changes are still a "nerf" but a VERY VERY good step up and I think it's a reasonable compromise. Assuming MF stays the same as they have it (100% damage increase CD) and AV gets buffed to a reasonably decent level, we've probably got a net buff.

[Cyberowl]

To continue the conversation in the KJC thread that was closed...



This is a conversation that's been going on here since MoP Beta, AV isn't popular because even if you stand in bad the ENTIRE FIGHT, and use the active part of the CD with your last DS (It benefits from it), it still only equates to 3-5% of your damage done. Even on Wind Lord, a fight with a TON of reflect-able damage, it was terrible.

"Only" 3-5%...ok.

[Teye]

These new KJC changes are still a "nerf" but a VERY VERY good step up and I think it's a reasonable compromise. Assuming MF stays the same as they have it (100% damage increase CD) and AV gets buffed to a reasonably decent level, we've probably got a net buff.

Damage being moved into DoTs and Haunt and out of MG is still an apparent go, which is also a buff for their Multi-dotting.

I'm very glad to finally see our level 90 talents getting looked at in detail, they've been lackluster for a long time.

[Soulzar]

So am I the only one that thinks this latest proposed version of KJC is actually better than our one live?

Trading a movement snare for the ability to only cast a spell your casting 50% of the time anyways? OK...

And to top that if his comments stand true on the "penalty" for taking KJC being that you cant use one of the other implied awesome talents in fights where movement is not critical.... Very curious where that's leading...

Really sounds like they are working towards "All locks take this talent, in this situation" and getting away from the "all locks chose this talent" that they hate so much. Which I can get on board for...

[Mctriple]

AV isn't popular because even if you stand in bad the ENTIRE FIGHT, and use the active part of the CD with your last DS (It benefits from it), it still only equates to 3-5% of your damage done. Even on Wind Lord, a fight with a TON of reflect-able damage, it was terrible.

3-5% is not bad. However, I think it should be buffed a bit more. Maybe up to 10% at the most for fights where it's extremely good and around 5% for more typical fights. The major problem with KJC is that the other two talents just aren't very good. MF is decent here and there but still pales in comparison most of the time. AV more so. KJC will stop being the only choice anybody takes when it's nerfed a little and, more importantly, the others are buffed a little.

[Vulcanasm]

I'm very glad to finally see our level 90 talents getting looked at in detail, they've been lackluster for a long time.

I agree to an extent. It feels to me like one great level 90 talent (KJC), one situational talent with little general use (MF), and one that's rubbish (AV). Everyone takes KJC simply because, with two mediocre talents and one good one, it's a no-brainer. The "on use" KJC (the one that caused all the outrage) would've just made three mediocre talents.

If anything, I think AV still needs real consideration (shorter cooldown, some kind of "charges", the whole nine yards, as they say) -- right now it's a poor man's Lightning Shield with an "on use" gimmick. MF still feels uninteresting to me, even now, but that's probably because I don't do rated BGs.

[Deleted]

GC about AV:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...67452911939585

[Teye]

3-5% is not bad. However, I think it should be buffed a bit more. Maybe up to 10% at the most for fights where it's extremely good and around 5% for more typical fights. The major problem with KJC is that the other two talents just aren't very good. MF is decent here and there but still pales in comparison most of the time. AV more so. KJC will stop being the only choice anybody takes when it's nerfed a little and, more importantly, the others are buffed a little.

Currently, KJC isn't used 100% for Demonology and Destruction. With the exception of a few fights, Demonology uses MF for everything right now. It will stay that way in 5.4, and it will likely be a dps increase when used with Immolation Aura and DS.

Destruction used MF for Ember Generation on spread targets and for FnB spam on spread targets, but with the nerf its likely that they'll be using KJC more often than before. If MF turns out to be a single target DPS increase for them (lining up with DS once per minute), they might take that on fights with little movement.

Affliction on the other hand has no chance of benefiting from MF single target, and values KJC far more than Demonology does. Affliction needs more attention, or some way to make the other options more attractive.

[Count Zero]

Not fussed if major or minor. I'm worried the echo chamber of those very rare Affliction PvE occasions that'll downgrade your DoTs has been overblown and caused what is actually a pretty hefty nerf to Destro/Demo and PVP.

I'm not sure if I'd consider those situations "very rare".

I am kinda confused about all this Fel Flame talk. Why does it still need changed again? Increased damage would be nice cuz who doesn't want free damage buffs. But who still uses FF anyways? I MAYBE use it once per fight, and that's only if I have really weird trinket procs on the pull/on DS mid fight.

They want FF to be the mobility option for anyone who chooses MF or AV

[Teye]

Not fussed if major or minor. I'm worried the echo chamber of those very rare Affliction PvE occasions that'll downgrade your DoTs has been overblown and caused what is actually a pretty hefty nerf to Destro/Demo and PVP.

You really need to stop with the "sky is falling" posts in every thread. I'm not trying to attack you, but I haven't seen a single positive post from you since the 5.4 changes were announced.

Also, just because you don't play Affliction doesn't mean that Fel Flame weakening your DoTs wouldn't happen on a constant basis. Any fight with even minor movement would see Fel Flame nerfing Corruption and UA several times throughout the fight. Proper Affliction play is all about keeping the strongest DoTs possible, and any time you have movement and your procs aren't up, Fel Flame would simply be a dps loss. Blizzard and GC saw that fact (Thankfully) and fixed it.

[xskarma]

GC about AV:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...67452911939585

Hmm so we get Spellpower, presumably from taking damage? I hope they close the loopholes on that one so it doesn't promote standing in poo, otherwise this might actually be a pretty good solution. Easily tuneable too, if it's too strong, or too weak.

Sapperwix said there might be another PTR push tomorrow or early next week, so let's hope they get it in that biuld so we can check it out.