[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

[Deleted]

I really dont know what to do.. I have no healer alt.. And with this changes ill get pretty useless in the healing team in my guild.. We role with a pala a shaman and a druid.. They are getting insane buffs.. We would probably be better server with a priest since even when they are the most op healer rigth now i dont really see any nerfs being given to them..

Regretting refreshing the 3 month subsciption last week :\

[mcbubble]

Please people, post on the wow forums or tweet Ghostcrawler about these changes.
There needs to be some sort of compensation...it's just getting out of hand.

[Lumineux]

This is absolutely crazy and must be changed! I love EF but now that entire talent is gonna be pointless since no Hpally use judgement often! GUUUUUHHHHH change it!

Yup I really, really don't want to go back to judging on CD. And I won't, I don't like that playstyle.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 12:15 PM ----------

Please people, post on the wow forums or tweet Ghostcrawler about these changes.
There needs to be some sort of compensation...it's just getting out of hand.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9341334082

Thread someone started on the healing forums. Make sure to give it a thumbs up.

[Kizy]

I can only hope they'll do something to Holly Paladins that will bring them back up to par prior to 5.4 launching (but I'm not holding my breath (ex: resto shaman)).

I do like that they're 'trying' to give us something else to use in that tier, though they're all severely lacking. I'd like to see Selfless healer build stacks from something that's already in our rotation, or not require 3 stacks. It just reminds me of the "clunky-ness" of druid mushrooms (using multiple GCDs just to get a single heal). Sacred Shield could be improved upon if it would actually be useful outside of the 2 minute ICD. Maybe make Sacred Shield transfer IH with the beacon? Beacon swapping will become significantly more susceptible to RNG.

(Note: My ideas and opinions are solely from a 10man perspective)

[Deleted]

I have been trying to find an explanation for this nerf.... And the only reason i can think of is that we are getting buffs in other locations of our toolkit... but i can't see a single fucking reason those aren't in the current ptr changes for us to read. So i have come to the conclusion that some dev got hit on the head a bit to hard.

I might actually make a twitter account to harass GC like the warlocks do. It's the only way i feel like we can give some feedback. The battle.net forums are just terrible when it comes to healers. There are just more dps mains and they tend to spam the forums. Just look at the paladin ones it's all ret and prot. The few holy related posts get spammed by non-paladins going zomg op! nerf! op! nerf! bla bla bla.

Oh yeah i almost forgot that Divine Plea buff.... yeah something that should have been done 3 patches ago if you ask me.

[Pasture]

No, I have problems with how they went about changing EF. There should never be a point (like glyphs) where talents feel like traps, where basically taking it is worse than not taking any talents at all. This is what the change to EF has done, now there are cases (PvP for instance) where it's actually worse to have EF than just to have the bigger initial heal.

I completely agree with this. Taking a talent that actually worsens a key ability is just bad design. It just feels wrong.

That aside, I always felt like spot healing was a Holy Paladin strength (particularly in 10s). The 4pc nerf and now this... it feels like they're pushing us away from spot healing which makes me wonder what our strength is supposed to be now.

[Freia]

I have been trying to find an explanation for this nerf.... And the only reason i can think of is that we are getting buffs in other locations of our toolkit... but i can't see a single fucking reason those aren't in the current ptr changes for us to read. So i have come to the conclusion that some dev got hit on the head a bit to hard.

I might actually make a twitter account to harass GC like the warlocks do. It's the only way i feel like we can give some feedback. The battle.net forums are just terrible when it comes to healers. There are just more dps mains and they tend to spam the forums. Just look at the paladin ones it's all ret and prot. The few holy related posts get spammed by non-paladins going zomg op! nerf! op! nerf! bla bla bla.

Oh yeah i almost forgot that Divine Plea buff.... yeah something that should have been done 3 patches ago if you ask me.

Ghostcrawler said they didn't like that Eternal Flame turned us into a mix between a resto druid and disc priest amoung other things. They have been making plenty of mention implying they were going to nerf us further with no reference to any sort of buff to compensate.

And Divine Plea needs to scale with gear like all the other mana regen buffs are starting to.

And I have made 2 tweets to GC, he doesn't respond. Also it hard to also say anything constructive in the very little space twitter gives you. And then he wonders why all the tweets just sound like mindless qq, because there isn't room for details, just to say what is wrong with no if, ands, or buts. Yet those irrational qq posts seem to be the majority of what he responds to(i should start doing that I guess!). Also don't try to link him raid bots, have seen plenty of people do that just to be instantly wrote off in his response.

[Gilthresa]

I have tried to get GC's attention on this multiple times, seems to just ignore me

[cakin]

Didn't GC say that he responds to all posts and tweets?

[Peacemoon]

They might as well have written "nerfed EF" and yet the other talents dont seem viable at all in PVE pov. On 900k hp tank sacred shield gives "amazing" 2.25k hps if it procs every cd. Selfless healer seems completely useless, why would you want to spend time judging, when you could be healing. Even while judging we'd get buffed single target heal which would be kinda pointless considering the amount of gcds wasted to get one stacked up.

I'm kinda indifferent about sanctified wrath change (at least they didnt go nerf HA). Maybe it might be worth using in prolonged aoe damage with the 2 set. At least they did the change with divine plea and it's nice for certain fights where it was dangerous to use before with the 50% debuff. I wonder what the glyph is gonna give in 5.4 then.

I have no idea what blizzard is thinking about holy paladins. Mastery shields might give us OP healing on some trivial damage fights, but nerfing the normal heal output shouldnt be the way to go around. They just want us to switch EF to some garbage talents they thought might be useful.

Since when is healing about HPS? We aren't DPS lol. Sacred Shield automatically proccing on the tank when he drops below 30% hp may very well prevent a wipe and give all the healers a bit of extra time to react.

[Deleted]

I was actually doing the math on those changes today. If i reroll to a new monk this week, I might actually have the 608 cloak by T16 progress.

And even if you don't, you'll still be 3x more useful than your paladin.

On topic, it's simply bewildering; without major change I can't see many of us playing holydin next tier.

[Kyuuseishu]

Since when is healing about HPS? We aren't DPS lol. Sacred Shield automatically proccing on the tank when he drops below 30% hp may very well prevent a wipe and give all the healers a bit of extra time to react.

So a very niche use which then severely reduces the effectiveness of a paladin's spread healing, great talent. Its a survivability talent on a throughput tier, it has no place realistically and its use comes from the off chance the that your beacon is on the right person at the right time, even then it has a 2min ICD which makes it laughable.

[Pasture]

So a very niche use which then severely reduces the effectiveness of a paladin's spread healing, great talent. Its a survivability talent on a throughput tier, it has no place realistically and its use comes from the off chance the that your beacon is on the right person at the right time, even then it has a 2min ICD which makes it laughable.

Well it isn't a throughput tier any more. SH isn't really throughput. You need to drop a lot of globals to make use of it. SS obviously isn't throughput. EF is the odd one out now. Just bizarre they would nerf our throughput when it wasn't needed.

[Hrrom]

I don't understand these changes at all.
What exactly are they trying to accomplish with Holy?

They want us to move to the other talents - yet they change SS so it's very unattractive for us, and then SH has always been unattractive for us.

[Absintheminded]

I have tried to get GC's attention on this multiple times, seems to just ignore me

I have also tweeted him about 3 times about it, but he has not replied to a single tweet about pallies in two days. 80% has been about Warlock, it's really aggravating honestly.

[Cybnext]

Mastery: Illuminated Healing no longer activates from periodic healing effects.

[Klasscs]

Well shit.... I picked a bad time to come back to raiding as the 2nd holy paladin in my raid......

Time to reroll ret and hope for a raid spot? (seeing how all paladins bring same utility)

edit: maybe we should all boycott this change and no one take tier45 talents until they fix em! if it goes live lol

[Kyuuseishu]

Mastery: Illuminated Healing no longer activates from periodic healing effects.

This is worse than the current change in terms of healing wise, a scaled back % of healing on the HoT would be better

[Deleted]

Wonder how we're gonna end up when 5.4 hits, surely not looking too great now.

At least the PTR should last quite a while still.

[Pasture]

This is worse than the current change in terms of healing wise, a scaled back % of healing on the DoT would be better

That would just ignore the problem. Mastery just keeps the shield rolling. Reducing the hot doesn't stop that.

The problem is neither does this change. It just makes us worse at actually healing and pushes a higher proportion onto the shield rolling. Utterly senseless.