He is like an officer from Star Wars
i find the alliance more evil. heres why. the forsaken previously owned the areas of Lorderon.. and now since they died they are no longer allowed on their own property. normally this would be ok in real life. some1 dies and their estate is willed over. however, in wow the forsaken can be res'd back.. therefore they should still be allowed to live there. so... when people try and take their homes back, thats messed up.
anyway. being a worgen makes me laugh so hard when u play through the scenes.. it seems like Sylvanas uses the plague all the time like its the only thing she does. They paint such a horrible picture of her its hilarious. When you play the horde version she appears more fair.. even human almost. but anyway, the worgen version is very narrow minded.
Back on topic. Lorthermar just doesnt want his soldiers res'd as undead. thats understandable. like a religious thing where theres cremation or whatnot.
that's actually fairly common, most quests tend to demonize the opposing faction, although it's more rare for alliance to get any "they did something mean" on them (the only exception I remember being the spies and saboteurs in the bloodelf starting zones and also the horde side of camp taurajo story). but yes you have to consider the actual options available to sylvanas. she's given what is essentially a suicide mission in invading an entire kingdom with her forces also dealing with guerrilla resistance in other areas, and fighting the alliance in other places, she wouldn't even be bothering with gilneas in the first place if garrosh hadn't put her up to it. now then, with limited resources and heavy fighting in both that area and others her options are: waste troops, fall back allowing an enraged enemy to then attack HER instead, or use the special weapon she was disallowed the use of by a distrusting orc who doesn't even contribute to the fight beyond openly using forsaken soldiers as cannon fodder. it's not a "bwuahahahahaha I'm evil" moment it's a "I do this and make this fight shorter or I sit here and have a battle of attrition that weakens me to my other problems".
also back on topic, it MAY be possible she can raise non humans now, blizz isn't beyond retconning things like that into existance and the entire use of just humans is really there to explain why there aren't more undead varieties for players (all undead player-characters look human even though some foraken should logically be from high elves too)
...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.
The Forsaken have members of other races, but those are converted Scourge. Before Cata, it might have made sense to allow PC Forsaken to have been elves except for breaking the connection with doing quests in Lordaeron. Like why would an undead elf give a shit about what's happening in the Lordaeron starting zones?
Cata+ all the new Forsaken are raised by Val'kyr, so they're human.
Are you ignoring that the Lich King was planning on stabbing the Burning Legion in the back since his creation?
Are you ignoring that Sylvanas has had a drastic personality shift since the death of the Lich King?
Are you ignoring that Sylvanas is disobeying orders from her superiors to NOT use the plague?
From the looks of it Sylvanas is becoming exactly what she hated now that the need for vengeance has been fulfilled.
She's gone from Morally questionable to Morally reprehensible.
The Nuclear Weapon Comparison is bad, simply because The U.S. isn't conducting itself like NK is.
Sylvanas is conducting herself like the Lich King is, she's just smart enough to realize she's not in a position of power to take on the whole world yet. Even the Argents, a neutral organization, has an eye on her.
Except Sylvanas' only goal is the defense of herself and her kingdom and every person she resurrects has free will.
Killing people with Blight, soldiers, siege weapons, etc. makes no difference; it's still killing people. It's just that tossing Blight around reduces Forsaken casualties. The only morality violation was during the development of Blight.
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-06-22 at 05:59 PM.
Free will? Look at Koltira.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Arthas clearly failed when he created his death knights. You are still weak.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Fortunately, I have agents that can help you... erase this weakness. Beneath the Undercity you go.
Koltira Deathweaver yells: NO!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Shh... quiet, death knight. When I'm finished with you, your fear will be gone.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: You can thank me later.
Oh and the last line of Quest completion Dialogue
"wouldn't plan on seeing Koltira anytime soon. Now that I have him... you can rest assured that any bonds he may have had with that Alliance scum will be thoroughly broken."
The entirety of the WPL Questline shows why exactly Sylvanas is becoming so despicable.
The Blight however has been forbidden since the Wrathgate, Sylvanas' continuation of it is bad enough.
Koltira is a special case because he is a traitor after pledging to sylvanus (doesn't matter if it was for his friend) and sylvanuses method (and all forsaken methods) aren't stationary. You are getting your own personal views mixed up with forsaken cultural ones and that isn't a valid explanation.
Yes, the same tired old example of 1 man who committed treason and was punished. Nothing about the dialogue explicitly states she rewired his brain and removed free will. She could have just tortured him.
Every other instance shows that Forsaken have free will. "Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture." People are even free to leave the Forsaken without consequence. Plus all the people who left the Forsaken for other factions. Leaving the Forsaken is fine, helping the Alliance is not.
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-06-22 at 06:41 PM.
Not wanting his people to be turned into undead, since they were kindof ravaged by it before, is pretty damned fair. Sylvanas is the ass for doing it against his will, and he is still the ruler of his people, which she's infringing upon, and her helping him in the pas does not validate her shamelessly using his people as she sees fit, and that includes the dead.
In the case of Gilneas, sort of. They were under orders/threat from Garrosh. It's not really Forsaken aggression since they are acting on behalf of the Horde. It's Horde aggression.
For the Lordaeron areas:
From the Forsaken PoV, they are defending their right to exist and their kingdom from human and Alliance invaders.
From the Lordaeron survivors' PoV, they are defending/reclaiming their lands from rampant undead (Scourge and Forsaken are the same to them).
From the Alliance PoV, they are reclaiming Lordaeron for the Alliance. They can differentiate between Scourge and Forsaken, but they want to wipe out the Forsaken just as much, it's just that the Horde makes it risky.
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-06-22 at 06:37 PM.
That crazy undead elf chick is all that stands between alliance and their purging. Of course she has to be sinister and devious in order to keep her people alive. She cannot have one of her generals giving his friend, a chance to "win" thanks to emotions. That battle went on far to long and cost more deaths to the forsakened. I am for coexistance, but when alliance thinks its right to purge an entire race from the plane of existence I call that genocide. All that crazy undead chick has is to kill and kill in order for her people to survive. She even raises the dead of her enemies and give them a chance to live yet again, AND THEY DONT NEED to be apart of the forsakened. They can go right back to alliance (though they might purge them) or they can even join the ranks of the Argent Crusade. She gives her enemies another chance at life. She gives her allys another chance at life.
The reason she doesnt just simply kill Koltira is because he is also apart of the Knights of the Ebon Blade, and they have an alliance with the Argent Crusade. Two peoples breathing down her neck. So what do you do when your general has bromance for the enemy? You cant execute him.You know he is a very powerful subordinate. You know you can bend his will... eventually. So you send him back to basic training. She doesnt have any sort of mind control, unless she uses her charm spell and then she simply has another infactuated fanboy, because they took the quest out where she raised dumber undead, so that is uncanon now.
The simple fact with Lordaeron is that both factions have people who lived there who want it back. Both with slam the other for their own reasons and then butt heads. Shame how people have a habit of disagreeing on it .
In the end unless Calia Menethil decides to show her face both factions will claim it for themselves.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that the Alliance wants to wipe them out though.