SoO Normal - "Do-able" without SoO LFR gear?

[XingoJenkins]

The question is simple:

Can a 10-man group can do SoO Normal without getting LFR SoO gear (based on previous patches like ToT, ToES, etc)?

[Glaziola]

LFR SoO gear is ilvl 528 and ToT normal gear is 530 upgraded. People can get 530 via LFR these days so to answer you, Yes.

[blackblade]

I would imagine that there's a minimum ilvl that you would want to ensure success. If you're in a mishmash of upgraded ToT LFR gear (Which will likely have the same treatment as T14, with boosted drop rates and abundant coins) I think you'll survive.

But yes, I don't think they're changing anything outside of adding flex between lfr and normal.

[Deleted]

The entry level bosses is normally tuned for the previous tiers normal gear or slightly lower (probably tuned for about 515 ilvl) and the later bosses are usually tuned closer towards the heroic gear level (guessing garrosh N gonna be tuned around 540 ivll).

So yes, you will be able to do SoO without LFR gear. You also have flex to work with now for gearing up.

[XingoJenkins]

The reason I asked this question is that my group want to do 10-man Normal as if LFR never existed, and we could have some effort with gearing and the real difficulty without help of LFR gear. Besides that, doing Garrosh in LFR is absolutely ridiculous and breaks the mood and the excitment of a end-xpac boss.

[Ninotchka]

As always, this is a gear-based game and the more gear you have the easier the encounters will get.

Some of the tier set bonuses are awesome, and there's almost always a trinket with godly procs. Those will be sought-after enough that some raiders will feel pressure to run normal, flex and LFR in order to have the highest chance of getting those items.

But by the end of the tier I predict that some Method/Paragon types will run heroic SoO in 502s just to show off that they can.

Because gear makes a huge difference but so does skill.

You're potentially asking two different questions here. The question you asked - "can it be run in 522 gear?" - is answered yes, if you're skilled as a Method/Paragon type.

The question I think you're meaning to ask is - "can I finish SoO without running LFR if all I have is 522 gear?" And we can't answer that without knowing more about your guild and your group's capabilities.

[Deleted]

Since some guilds will be clearing it in the first week of patch 5.4 when SoO LFR isn't yet available, the answer is:Yes, it can be cleared without LFR.
Of course, if your entire guild is currently in 463 gear you may have some trouble, but if you are currently farming ToT Normal/HC and is capping your Valor every week you should be wearing full 530+ gear by the time 5.4 hits.

[xtramuscle]

Spoilers.. Raids are made to be cleared on normal and heroic. LFR is for those who can't commit time to raid normal modes. LFR may server the purpose of a stepping stone into normal, but is not, ever was, and never will be a requirement to clear normal mode.

It is however a great way to gear up alts, thus avoiding grinding each tier. You can ding 90 now, and be in tot lfr in within the same week, day if you really try. with enough luck, and coins, you could be in tot normal the next week without too much trouble.

[Deleted]

the normal mode encounters are always tuned around the previous normal mode gear.

just how ToT was tuned around 496 (although i admit several early bosses didnt feel like that, while many later bosses felt below that number).
if your somewhere around 522 you should be fine.

[Venant]

The reason I asked this question is that my group want to do 10-man Normal as if LFR never existed, and we could have some effort with gearing and the real difficulty without help of LFR gear. Besides that, doing Garrosh in LFR is absolutely ridiculous and breaks the mood and the excitment of a end-xpac boss.

Your best bet for preparation is to get 13/13H on farm asap so you will have full 549 gear by the time SoO releases

[Tarazet]

Your best bet for preparation is to get 13/13H on farm asap so you will have full 549 gear by the time SoO releases

Sure, I'll get right on that on my server where the best guild is 4/12H..

[MoanaLisa]

The reason I asked this question is that my group want to do 10-man Normal as if LFR never existed, and we could have some effort with gearing and the real difficulty without help of LFR gear. Besides that, doing Garrosh in LFR is absolutely ridiculous and breaks the mood and the excitment of a end-xpac boss.

If you are patient with drops and not in a race with other guilds you could do this all along. I think your guild is doing the right thing. The only real reason that people think that 'LFR is mandatory' is because it's probably somewhat faster to gear up that way. But that's it. It's faster, not the only way.

Good luck to your guild. There should be more like it.

[XingoJenkins]

Thank you for each of the answers.

If you are patient with drops and not in a race with other guilds you could do this all along. I think your guild is doing the right thing. The only real reason that people think that 'LFR is mandatory' is because it's probably somewhat faster to gear up that way. But that's it. It's faster, not the only way.

Good luck to your guild. There should be more like it.

Like you said, sometimes you think LFR is mandatory and leads to a bad raiding experience, giving no motivations to keep going normal mode and heroics. If you remove LFR from this "grind", you can have good experiences playing with your friends raiding 10-man normal.

We don't wanna be first realm of something like that. We don't wanna hurry. We are working on best ways to enjoy the content without the bad experience you have in LFR's.

Thanks! I'll start working on that.

[kamuimac]

I guess it will be tuned similiar or even maybe a tiny bit little higher then ToT is - which means if u will go there in half normal/half hc gear ull probably have very light start when people in around 522 gear will encounter problems pretty soon - aka horridon this tier - blizzard will have now casual guidl frieendly flex difficulty which means they wont have to touch/nerf (or how some say tune) fast liek they did in ToT - but y i suppose having raiders in full 530 gear will be a good starting point for initial difficulty

The initial few weeks may be hard because of very big gap between 522 gear and +/-550 which will drop cause later bosses will be tuned closer to 550 for most of averags guilds but then most raiders wil lgo in in about 530-535 gear thx to thunderforged and cloak ...

[Hypasonic]

The minimal requirement is that you clear ToT on normal and have the gear from that, that will get you atleast the first few bosses down with little trouble.

[Keny]

Thats what Heroic gear from previous content Is for...

[Caerule]

Like everyone has said, if you have Normal level gear from ToT, then SoO LFR gear is so little of an upgrade, it's not even worth getting.

Added to that, it could be 6 weeks after the raid is released before the final LFR wing even opens. If your guild has been running SoO on Normal, the thought of going into LFR should be ridiculous by then.

Added to that, there's Flex raiding now. If the guildies do want to get more gear and upgrades then they are getting in SoO normal, it would be way more efficient to run Flex, instead of LFR.

So yes, Blizzard intended to make LFR obsolete for those who do not wish to run it. And I think you're good to go on ignoring it.

[clevin]

If it's not, it's another fail tuning ala Horridon which assumed 502ish gear. The real issue is how much of the T15 normal gear you can and should be expected to have when T16 drops. If they expect you to have pretty much full ToT gear (inlcuding VP stuff) then SoO should start out a bit below that in the 515 range and then ramp up slowly. Hopefully they learned their lesson with ToT and don't do a loot piñata boss followed by an overtuned second boss but ramp it up so the first 3 bosses are a reasonable check for whether you have the gear to be there.

[Deleted]

If it's not, it's another fail tuning ala Horridon which assumed 502ish gear.

Horridon assumed a brain. It was easily doable in 490~ ilvl, probably lower. I tanked it with a 470 ilvl alt without problems, though the rest of the group was probably closer to 495 at that point.

The problem with horridon was that the fight was too long. It should have been 2 gates in normal. Having a 12 minute fight as second boss is asking for troubles.

[clevin]

Horridon assumed a brain. It was easily doable in 490~ ilvl, probably lower. I tanked it with a 470 ilvl alt without problems, though the rest of the group was probably closer to 495 at that point.

The problem with horridon was that the fight was too long. It should have been 2 gates in normal. Having a 12 minute fight as second boss is asking for troubles.

If everyone was very good, yes you could do that. But it was easy for normal people to miss an interrupt, etc and since it IS a 10-12 min fight, mistakes have a cascading effect. Gear mitigates that to some degree - healers have more spellpower and regen, tanks have more HP, DPS will be higher so adds die faster, etc.

The fact that very good raiders can do it undergeared isn't relevant though. Normal ToT assumed a 495-ish gear level and Horridon was a bit higher initially (not now) on the assumption that most people had middle of the road skills.