Okay. Blizzard needs to really make Warlock Tanks a 100% reality

[Brusalk]

The reason you need those stats is to add some RnG to the damage taken. If you leave warlocks at pure damage reduction you just made them the best tanks in the game.

It would be very easy to make the Mastery something along the lines of:

"Reduces damage taken by X%. Damage taken has an additional Y% chance to be further reduced by Z%."

Mastery can affect X and Z, while crit % can affect Y and Z. (Z would most likely need to be an amount with different base/scaling than X from Mastery)

This allows haste to be used as a fury generation/threat stat. Crit is used as a threat stat as well as a RNG damage taken increaser/damage reduction (which is the purpose of Dodge/Parry. More Dodge/Parry more RNG on damage taken but less overall damage taken). Mastery is used as a flat damage reduction, as well as further reducing the crit-hit reduction.



If you wanted threat, you'd go with haste, at the sacrifice of mitigation (crit/mastery).

If you wanted to take less damage you'd balance Crit/Mastery. More Mastery means more flat damage taken reduction, as well as an increase in the amount of damage reduction as a result of Crit. More crit means more RNG in terms of damage taken, but overall reduces damage taken.

[Katchii]

How warlocks are portrayed in lore. I can't see them wanting to protect anyone, if anything the complete opposite they would use every last man woman and child as human shields to protect their own interests. I would however let this one slide as a warlock would happily sacrifice their demon's well being to protect themselves but the idea of a selfless warlock just seems wrong. DK are different they care little about their well being along as vengeance is achieved. Lore can be changed though.

Agreed, even the new Warlock only Scenario for Green Fire has a small section where the NPC guiding you says "hey my friends are in trouble, let's help them!" and you instead go and loot the temple, leaving those people to die essentially.

Having the role of "protector" would go against the lore of the class, imo.

Having said that, I have nothing against Warlock tanks, but there are lots of other things Blizzard needs to spend time addressing before making more changes to Warlocks when they don't really need changing.

[Brusalk]

Agreed, even the new Warlock only Scenario for Green Fire has a small section where the NPC guiding you says "hey my friends are in trouble, let's help them!" and you instead go and loot the temple, leaving those people to die essentially.

Having the role of "protector" would go against the lore of the class, imo.

Having said that, I have nothing against Warlock tanks, but there are lots of other things Blizzard needs to spend time addressing before making more changes to Warlocks when they don't really need changing.

I can't think of anything more warlocky than harnessing the power of your demons to empower yourself allowing you to go toe-to-toe with that guy that's really pissing you off.

I'd say it's less of being a "protector" and more of being a selfish prick who doesn't rely on others to do what he can do himself.

[Keldion]

I can't think of anything more warlocky than harnessing the power of your demons to empower yourself allowing you to go toe-to-toe with that guy that's really pissing you off.

I'd say it's less of being a "protector" and more of being a selfish prick who doesn't rely on others to do what he can do himself.

I imagine warlock tanks as being arrogant and obnoxious loudmouths who are preternaturally tough and resilient. I agree with you that warlocks don't need to have altrustic or even wholesome reasons to assume the role - they may just do it for the promise of wealth, scavenged relics (i.e. loot), or for their own twisted sense of amusement.

[Deleted]

I can't think of anything more warlocky than harnessing the power of your demons to empower yourself allowing you to go toe-to-toe with that guy that's really pissing you off.

I'd say it's less of being a "protector" and more of being a selfish prick who doesn't rely on others to do what he can do himself.

I don't think a warlock would go to any lengths to reveal themselves or exert unnecessary energy unless their own lives depended on it. Think of the emperor in SW, cunning and manipulating and get others to do the dirty work/ take the hits for him, however Extremely powerful and dangerous when cornered. Remember warlocks in pretty much every playable race are often outcasted loners who are not welcomed in most societies. What you described sounds far more like the warrior class but with replacing the word demon with anger/rage. Not to mention no one would probably want to be companions with them. Just my opinion though.

[Brusalk]

I don't think a warlock would go to any lengths to reveal themselves or exert unnecessary energy unless their own lives depended on it. Think of the emperor in SW, cunning and manipulating and get others to do the dirty work/ take the hits for him, however Extremely powerful and dangerous when cornered. Remember warlocks in pretty much every playable race are often outcasted loners who are not welcomed in most societies. What you described sounds far more like the warrior class but with replacing the word demon with anger/rage. Not to mention no one would probably want to be companions with them. Just my opinion though.

When's the last time that raids didn't have a potentially world-ending result if the bosses weren't killed? Seems to me that if the alternative was death, a Warlock would be perfectly happy to buff the crap out of himself, becoming a demon in the process, and take care of that annoyance that is the boss himself.

[Deleted]

When's the last time that raids didn't have a potentially world-ending result if the bosses weren't killed? Seems to me that if the alternative was death, a Warlock would be perfectly happy to buff the crap out of himself, becoming a demon in the process, and take care of that annoyance that is the boss himself.

Well technically that's what demonology warlocks do already just they'd rather do it at the cost of their own allies health or should I say risk rather than their own.

[Brusalk]

Well technically that's what demonology warlocks do already just they'd rather do it at the cost of their own allies health or should I say risk rather than their own.

I imagine (and is the case at the moment) that Demonology DPS is about temporarily becoming a demon, while Dark Apotheosis is about fully becoming a demon.

I guess you're imagining Warlocks as a subversive sort in general, while I'm imagining Warlocks as generally subversive, but when push comes to shove are willing to take personal risk to become a full-fledged demon.

[Jessicka]

I imagine (and is the case at the moment) that Demonology DPS is about temporarily becoming a demon, while Dark Apotheosis is about fully becoming a demon.

I guess you're imagining Warlocks as a subversive sort in general, while I'm imagining Warlocks as generally subversive, but when push comes to shove are willing to take personal risk to become a full-fledged demon.

Even Kanrethad, though he went full demon, preferred to use his minions to fight for him. Warlocks seem to be more about power through control, rather than raw power itself which is pretty much the realm of Mages (there are plenty of subversive, evil Mages in lore).

[luckydevours]

Since i am eagerly following the "Should warlocks be able to tank stuff?-discussion i wanted to get some figures to back up different opinions. Maybe this poll can be merged with the original thread?

[Brusalk]

Since i am eagerly following the "Should warlocks be able to tank stuff?-discussion i wanted to get some figures to back up different opinions. Maybe this poll can be merged with the original thread?

You didn't post a poll.

[luckydevours]

You didn't post a poll.

Obviously i'm not capable to post it simultaneously ...

[xskarma]

Maybe this poll can be merged with the original thread?

Done

[Deleted]

I think it would be awesome to add, Warlocks do feel like the most "tanker'ish" caster, and there are some "logic" behind in lore wise, about powering yourself in a demon form. But i wont happen, For then all other also want a new "role" mages want healering since Time spells, Rogues want to be a tank, Hunters, i think also a tank(a super defensive bm) shamans, already have DPS and healer, but sure also tank, and the same for priest. It would start a wave of whine not seen since Hordes players acually for ones lost a npc

[Locruid]

- Druids. Blizzard has recently split feral into 2 specs and does not like 1 spec having two roles. They will 100% not repeat this mistake unless they decide to split demo into two specs. Two different specs revolving around metamorphosis? Can't see it happening myself they would be too similar.

Being able to change from DPS to Tank DURING A BATTLE and on the fly is a hell of a lot different than making a Lock Tank dependent on Glyph Switching which cannot be changed in combat or in BGs that are active

[Deleted]

I don't know...
I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

What should i choose from the poll?

[xskarma]

I don't know...
I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

What should i choose from the poll?

If you still want Demo DPS then I think the 4th spec option is what you are looking at. If Blizzard ever decides to do it I think that's the best solution too.

[luckydevours]

I don't know...
I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

What should i choose from the poll?

I don't think a combined dps/tanking spec is a realistic option, actually i believe GC already stated they nerfed DA because they don't want people to change roles just by applying a specific glyph or switching into another stance.

[Skayth]

Well lets begin with hybrids and their introduction to Wow Hybrid came into wow close to the end of Burning Crusade, and gained superiority in WoTLK where they became full fleged dps with Healing and Tanking.

So lets explain. In the original WoW, vanilla, They created Dps, Healers, and Tanks. They created offspecs for the tanks and healers. so they could attempt to level faster, but in the end, they really didnt. If you were a Shadow priest, you were doing it wrong. If you were a Ret Pally, you were doing it wrong. You leveled as Healer and as Tank. And this is what you did in end game, You tanked or you healed as any of these "Hybrid" classes. You could not dps at all. These Hybrids did not exist in wow. So, when the changes came around, the "true" pure classes were left out on most everything, and as a lock, you stil shadowbolt spammed through Burning crusade, even though you watched other classes getting buffs to survivability or damage, cause they were hybrids, but as a warlock, all you did was spam Shadowbolt. Then Wotlk came, and with it, Hybrids became full fledged Hybrids, and even at the end of the expansion, the Hybrid taxed was taken away, so you could see hybrids passing pures in the meters. The truth of the matter is, with the taking away of the Hybrid tax, pures died as well.

Why be a pure Dps, when a Druid could do the same damage as you, if not more, pending the nerfs at the time, and you can heal and tank if you really wanted to? The hybrids by this point can do, if not the same dps as a pure, or more. Then they can also do things on the side if they want too, like heal or tank. Pures were left behind in the OLD VANILLA MODEL. Their will never be a new "pure" class added to wow, as it does not fit the new Blizzard logic, where Paladins SHould Just Heal, Druids should just Heal, Warriors should Just TANK. The truth is, Pures are a dated class concept that should be abolished, as one of the last remaining things of vanilla. It would increase the population of the Dying Pure Classes.

[artemishunter1]

I don't agree with your belief. Allowing evolution of a class into something more then it originally was conceived as is not in of itself a terrible concept. You pull facts out of your arse about fringe of fringe when in reality the novelty of it alone would be attractive to the vast majority of general consumers attracted to shiny things. Human nature and what not.



I am intrigued by the concept of just tanking in demon form, it's fresh and new.



Properly explain to the multiple people who have asked you now why warlock tanking in some way removes your ability to enjoy the game by causing you to suddenly not be "PURE" as you have stated. I'm not sure what gaming cred you try to roll around with about your "pure" dps class but where do we apply to get this stupid "pure" license as well to flaunt to the other players for gaming cred? I'm interested.

Most likely blizzard will redesign one of the specs for tanking, mostly demonology. You deny people who enjoy demonology as a dps.