1. #2681
    Deleted
    I cant possibly see them allowing you to cast WoG free on the raid. That would mean you could spam free WoG for infinite DP procs. The 13% is assuming you spam WoG on yourself every time you get 3 BoG stacks to get free DP procs.

  2. #2682
    Deleted
    And from when WoG on yourself is giving you 100% DP proc ?( with DP talent ofcourse) or im missing smth

  3. #2683
    Quote Originally Posted by Keppy View Post
    And from when WoG on yourself is giving you 100% DP proc ?( with DP talent ofcourse) or im missing smth
    Noone said that it has a 100% chance to grant a dp proc..

  4. #2684
    As I see it, the %haste/mastery/crit damage trinket will be useful above a certain threshold of haste, and below that threshold you'd be better off with a base haste trinket. Because the haste gain from the trinket is based on your current haste, it scales really well with your gear. Ie if it's a 17% gain, lethora would gain 2.6k haste from the trinket based on his current stats (although he'd probably be replacing a haste trinket, so less than that). 2.6k haste is a bit more than the base haste on any of the next tier trinkets, therefore it would likely be worth it for him to use the trinket, unless the procs on the base haste trinkets are really good. I can see several of these trinkets being quite desirable in different situations though--the %increase trinket, the base haste trinkets, the reduction on cds trinket, and maybe the stam/reduced aoe damage in rare situations perhaps.

  5. #2685
    Any datamining on which cooldowns are reduced based on trinkets?

    Also, any determination on if we use a "DPS" -cooldown trinket, if it reduces our Prot CDs or Ret ones? Could/would be very lackluster if we only get like 1-2 of the CD's reduced from it I'd think...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  6. #2686
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Any datamining on which cooldowns are reduced based on trinkets?.
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102306#comments

  7. #2687
    Quote Originally Posted by Keppy View Post

    With Unbreakable Spirit (halves the cooldown of Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Lay on Hands)
    Divine Protection: 60 seconds, reduced to 30 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 18 seconds by the trinket.
    Divine Shield: 300 seconds, reduced to 150 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 90 seconds by the trinket.
    Avenging Wrath: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Devotion Aura: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Ardent Defender: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Guardian of Ancient Kings: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket.

  8. #2688
    Deleted
    It'll be interesting to see how the trinket cooldown reduction will work out with Unbreakable Spirit, considering Divine Shield and Divine Protection are on both lists.

  9. #2689
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    With Unbreakable Spirit (halves the cooldown of Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Lay on Hands)
    Divine Protection: 60 seconds, reduced to 30 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 18 seconds by the trinket.
    Divine Shield: 300 seconds, reduced to 150 seconds by the talent. Reduced to 90 seconds by the trinket.
    Avenging Wrath: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Devotion Aura: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Ardent Defender: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket
    Guardian of Ancient Kings: 180 seconds cooldown, reduced to 109 seconds by the trinket.
    Sweet. Fucking. Baby. Raptor. Jesus.

    60% uptime on DivProt and ~100% uptime on ShotR. AND we can bubble every 90 seconds?

    Do you hear that, boys? The sound of all the prot warrior/DK tears? It's like rain.



    Edit: Obviously it's early, but interesting that http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102298#comments also has the same spells listed for Readiness. So, we could potentially get the 11k STR proc option instead? Obviously I can't see us being able to STACK them (though HOLY SHIT that'd be insane)...but even still, I'd take the STR proc over the HP buff on a 3min CD 99% of the time.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-06-28 at 04:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #2690
    Don't forget AD every 2 minutes and the auto-save every 60 seconds. For the extremely unlikely event of a tank "dying".

  11. #2691
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Don't forget AD every 2 minutes and the auto-save every 60 seconds. For the extremely unlikely event of a tank "dying".
    Sadly we can't cheese those for Vengeance apparently.

    But yeah, with <2min AD/GoAK, almost perma DivProt/ShotR, AND <2min wings, Devo and bubble for good measure....do you really think we NEED the tank cloak?

    Tank deaths (in 10H anyway) are already a rarity. Adding in all of these above "buffs" means that we've got a bolus of CDs constantly up, overlapping at times. Unless they scale up tank damage (taken) drastically in t16, which they may, I don't see the raid-benefit of the tank cape vs extra DPS/cleave cape.

    This isn't even figuring the terrible vs great itemization arguments either.

    Maybe I'm selling it short, and we don't know the actual damage ranges yet, but when I saw the cloak proc for tanks, all I could think of (again, from a 10H perspective) was "meh". With the nerf/change to the 4pc tier, I still don't feel any desire to run the tank meta, tank cape, or tank tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  12. #2692
    You should be able to swap the cloaks from what they've mentioned anyway, potentially even having one of each, so if that is the case (although I'm doubtful if this will apply to the legendary variants) you'll be able to do it all on a fight by fight basis.

  13. #2693
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sweet. Fucking. Baby. Raptor. Jesus.

    60% uptime on DivProt and ~100% uptime on ShotR. AND we can bubble every 90 seconds?

    Do you hear that, boys? The sound of all the prot warrior/DK tears? It's like rain.



    Edit: Obviously it's early, but interesting that http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102298#comments also has the same spells listed for Readiness. So, we could potentially get the 11k STR proc option instead? Obviously I can't see us being able to STACK them (though HOLY SHIT that'd be insane)...but even still, I'd take the STR proc over the HP buff on a 3min CD 99% of the time.
    The line, "Effective for Stength-based damage roles only" makes me think we would not be able to use that over the tank version, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  14. #2694
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    The line, "Effective for Stength-based damage roles only" makes me think we would not be able to use that over the tank version, unfortunately.
    But...we use STR for damage! Seriously, though, I saw that too and figured it'd be the case at least the HP on-use is less shitty than the "passive dodge, with on-use dodge" abomination they created.

    STOP. GIEFING. DODGE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #2695
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    But...we use STR for damage! Seriously, though, I saw that too and figured it'd be the case at least the HP on-use is less shitty than the "passive dodge, with on-use dodge" abomination they created.

    STOP. GIEFING. DODGE.
    Yup, we do, but it's not our role. Even when we (or any other tank) tops dps

    But yes. Stop giving dodge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  16. #2696
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Sadly we can't cheese those for Vengeance apparently.

    But yeah, with <2min AD/GoAK, almost perma DivProt/ShotR, AND <2min wings, Devo and bubble for good measure....do you really think we NEED the tank cloak?

    Tank deaths (in 10H anyway) are already a rarity. Adding in all of these above "buffs" means that we've got a bolus of CDs constantly up, overlapping at times. Unless they scale up tank damage (taken) drastically in t16, which they may, I don't see the raid-benefit of the tank cape vs extra DPS/cleave cape.

    This isn't even figuring the terrible vs great itemization arguments either.

    Maybe I'm selling it short, and we don't know the actual damage ranges yet, but when I saw the cloak proc for tanks, all I could think of (again, from a 10H perspective) was "meh". With the nerf/change to the 4pc tier, I still don't feel any desire to run the tank meta, tank cape, or tank tier.
    "Meh" is a generous reaction

    It's an insulting proc frankly. To good players, it's pretty irrelevant, as "tank death" is almost non-existent. Who, posting on this thread, has died unexpectedly in the past month on a fight you knew fairly well? I guess for the first few pulls, as you adjust to the timing and pace of damage, you may die, but after that you should have it on lockdown.

    For the rest of the playerbase, it just promotes skilless and lazy play. Woops, a bit late on that SotR weren't ya buddy? Got overwhelmed and didn't press Ardent Defender fast enough? Forgot that you have Guardian on your actionbar? No problem, because every minute we're going to bail you out. It's a throwback to the days of exclusive avoidance, where all you did was manipulate numbers and sit comfortably in the shield that was CTC cap.

  17. #2697
    Deleted
    Presuming those numbers make it live with that CD reduction trinkets, lets check the SotR uptimes with this bad boy. So you got two options, SW or DP. Presuming your HoPo regen rate to be 1.12*(1/3)1/4.5, or 0.5955, with DP you will see a 79.4% average.
    SW has a 109 second CD, resulting in about 77.9% average uptime. What is to be noted with this however is that it gives you 100% uptime for a large part of the fight and then 50% uptime for a different part of a fight while DP is more consistent, for good and evil. Also just the way cooldowns work, if you have a segment of the fight that is 150 seconds long you get to use SW twice making its real uptime higher then the average.
    What we also need to remember about DP is that 4p,,, with it we are looking at about 89.4% uptime.

    So what we are looking at is

    SW: 77.9% uptime ~ depending on how many times you get to use it on a fight
    DP: 79.4%
    DP + 4p: 89.4%

  18. #2698
    The cloak is either going to be mandatory to the point of not taking a tank if they don't have it, or pointless enough for everybody to just take the dps one in the hope of killing the boss a few seconds faster.

    There isn't really going to be a middle-ground there.

  19. #2699
    Deleted
    Having an auto-use AD effect every 1 min isn't that attractive to me, as least. Only situation I can see it being really useful is if SoO has heavy tank-hitting mechanics that can easily one-shot you (i.e. HC Madness' Impale). Apart from that I dunno, if I get to the point where I'll die it's usually a wipe already. Only progression bosses from ToT that it might be useful is Horridon (hey lol 7 stack triple puncture incoming! oh shit i forgot sh... BAM) and maybe Primordius (but this one does so much damage via dots that even if the cloak saves you one time it's possible the next couple ticks will kill you anyway, but you might still get saved so that's that).

    On the other hand, like pointed out before, unless SoO does have said tank-crushing abilities all over, this seems more friendly towards "newb" tanks/healers which is great and all that but feels a bit underwhelming if you don't find your tank dying a normal thing.

  20. #2700
    Deleted
    Yeah, I am on the same page as you guys. That cloak proc is not really that attractive. Dps cloak proc seems much more appealing

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